The ref (see PGMOL thread)

[Voice of fair play]

You're relying on unreliable and assumed, second hand data ... supposedly collected and analysed by competent parties, just because you want to!

What is the ISO standard they work to? In fact, ARE THEY EVEN CERTIFIED?

this gets worse the more you think about it, you're down the rabbit hole and moving away from the light with every post.

I am totally lost how you can’t see the logic.

Nobody is disputing in them 200 minutes you watched he was poor, or even useless in them games.

And if you said he was useless in just them particular games it would be entirely valid point as you witnessed like you say with your own eyes.

However you saying he is a useless ref defies all sensible logic as he has made his way to the top of his profession.

And you refusal to accept the high likelihood he must have had a hell of a lot of good games previously a must have been a very capable ref hence where he is makes no sense whatsoever

 

[Flavonoids]

I am totally lost how you can’t see the logic.

Nobody is disputing in them 200 minutes you watched he was poor, or even useless in them games.

And if you said he was useless in just them particular games it would be entirely valid point as you witnessed like you say with your own eyes.

However you saying he is a useless ref defies all sensible logic as he has made his way to the top of his profession.

And you refusal to accept the high likelihood he must have had a hell of a lot of good games previously a must have been a very capable ref hence where he is makes no sense whatsoever

Boris Johnson became prime minister.
Jimmy Savile a national treasure.
Harold Shipman a respected GP.
Etc. Etc.

There's none so blind as cannot see (and rely on the assessment of others for their opinions).

 

[Eric gates hair]

It concerns me how a referee can get to that level then make decisions like he did in that game.

Baffling.

 

[little e]

For balance, he was A League referee of the year 5 years in a row.
For balance, he had an absolute nightmare last Saturday.
Foe those saying that referees don't make it all about themselves, read Jeff Winter's take on the game last Saturday.

 

[Voice of fair play]

For balance, he was A League referee of the year 5 years in a row.
For balance, he had an absolute nightmare last Saturday.
Foe those saying that referees don't make it all about themselves, read Jeff Winter's take on the game last Saturday.

5 years in a row!!

How is that possible for someone so useless.

Wonder how many minutes 5 years is canny bit more than 200 is my guess.

And agree poor last Saturday, at last some balance to the debate!!

 

[AC Mack]

I was meaning if he was asked about the way he refereed the game and also mainly about future issues too, it would be good to be able to have some clarity.

It wouldn't really change anything though. At the moment we have 'the ref is shit/inconsistent/biased/corrupt'. If they start coming out and explaining their decisions, at best we'll have 'the ref is shit/inconsistent/biased/corrupt but at least he's explained his reasoning'. At worst it'll just be another tool to beat him with as his explanations won't be deemed acceptable by those who are asking for it. If anything it could throw more coal onto the fire.

People just want to moan and hold others accountable for their actions. It's the society we live in unfortunately. Look at the use of technology in football for further proof.

 

[Voice of fair play]

Boris Johnson became prime minister.
Jimmy Savile a national treasure.
Harold Shipman a respected GP.
Etc. Etc.

There's none so blind as cannot see (and rely on the assessment of others for their opinions).

5 years in a row top ref in his country!!

Absolutely useless

Then again your 200 minutes must mean more accuracy than 5 years!!

 

[Dick Fitzwell]

5 years in a row top ref in his country!!

Absolutely useless

Depends on what the rest of the competition is like too

 

[lucky]

Ah bless it's his Birthday soon as well November 1st anyone getting him a birthday card ?

 

[Flavonoids]

5 years in a row top ref in his country!!

Absolutely useless

Your 'argument' is essentially that, he's a good referee because ... he's a referee.

You've effectively quarantined the thread with your binary belief and supine trust in the abilities of others, counter to the evidence of your own eyes and blithely unaware of their own abilities to judge or any external or mitigating factors which may be in play.

 

[Missplaced Childhood]

We know why he got sent off though

Yeah he got a 2nd yellow for swearing at the ref, so why didnt Crooks for telling him in his face to fuck off ?

 

[G Force]

So it seems even the ref defenders are now finally admitting he was useless last week.

This thread could have been done in 2 posts.

He was sh*t
Yes, yes he was

The end

 

[Voice of fair play]

Your 'argument' is essentially that, he's a good referee because ... he's a referee.

You've effectively quarantined the thread with your binary belief and supine trust in the abilities of others, counter to the evidence of your own eyes and blithely unaware of their own abilities to judge or any external or mitigating factors which may be in play.

I am not I am trying to put some common sense logic to the debate.

I am more than happy to concede in the games you have watched he had had poor games in that very small sample size.

What puzzles me is your lack of acceptance that if someone is voted top ref in their league for a mammoth 5 years in a row and deemed good enough by the experts in the field to be given a ref in arguably the top league in the world that in the games your haven’t seen a much bigger sample size.

You may consider he was a lot better in a lot of them games than the ones you have seen and therefore a lot more capable than you arguing

That’s a completely fair and valid argument.

And just simply common sense imo
I am not saying he is good referee because he is a referee.

I am saying it stands to reason he is when voted top ref for 5 years.

In stands to reason the good refs are in the top leagues and the poor ones are in the bottom leagues.

Unless the powers of be for some mysterious reason want the poor ones in the top league which of course makes no sense whatsoever

 

[w73]

5 years in a row top ref in his country!!

Absolutely useless

Then again your 200 minutes must mean more accuracy than 5 years!!

You are going overboard in your defence of him. He was terrible and it worked against so we are annoyed. If he was terrible and it worked in our favour we say he was terrible but we'd have a laugh. Just state that and move on.

 

[Voice of fair play]

In my opinion it’s the level of attention. I am convinced he’s the jobsworth type you see in all walks of life. I’ve posted evidence previously, but in summary, him getting micd up for Var, his Instagram and the sending off of the wolves player and Dan Neil is the evidence.

You see it everywhere, from school up. Use work as an example, you must have seen people who’ll react differently when they think it shows them in a good light to their bosses? The type who’ll hear the same thing 100 times and day fuck all, but if the senior manager is there theyll make a point of saying something.

I’m convinced that’s what this bloke is. He’s so invested in his career, that he’ll make “statements” to tick that box and get ahead. There’s no way you don’t book someone for screaming **** or Fuckoff in your face, when they aren’t on a booking, but send someone off who’s twenty yards away for swearing. It’s his statement, and I can almost guarantee he’ll keep doing stuff like this, because in my opinion he’s that type of bloke, and in the experience I have of jobsworths it’s what they do.

Sorry mate missed this post, yeah your points are certainly more of a possibility although still an assumption rather than the general point that he a useless ref as all other logic suggests otherwise.

And I agree they are them type of personalities in all jobs that yes I have come across

You are going overboard in your defence of him. He was terrible and it worked against so we are annoyed. If he was terrible and it worked in our favour we say he was terrible but we'd have a laugh. Just state that and move on.

If people said he had a bad game that would be accepted.

It’s all the other over the top nonsense that has lead to the prolonged debate

 

[Flavonoids]

I am not I am trying to put some common sense logic to the debate.

I am more than happy to concede in the games you have watched he had had poor games in that very small sample size.

What puzzles me is your lack of acceptance that if someone is voted top ref in their league for a mammoth 5 years in a row and deemed good enough by the experts in the field to be given a ref in arguably the top league in the world that in the games your haven’t seen a much bigger sample size.

You may consider he was a lot better in a lot of them games than the ones you have seen and therefore a lot more capable than you arguing

That’s a completely fair and valid argument.

And just simply common sense imo
I am not saying he is good referee because he is a referee.

I am saying it stands to reason he is when voted top ref for 5 years.

In stands to reason the good refs are in the top leagues and the poor ones are in the bottom leagues.

Unless the powers of be for some mysterious reason want the poor ones in the top league which of course makes no sense whatsoever

I'm invoking Evel Knievel ... I saw him fail to successfully jump 12 double decker buses, and thought he's a shite bus jumper. However, it transpires that he did in fact jump 12 (and more) successfully in the past so he might be actually considered a good one ... until you find that throughout his jumping (and failing to jump) career he experienced 433 broken bones, which in fact supports my original position ... he was crap and lucky to survive for future attempts. All I can say in support of Mr Kneivel is that at least he had the balls to try, and that impressed a lot of people, especially when he succeeded.

The Neil sending off was perfectly analogous to an attempt to jump the Grand Canyon on a star spangled rocket ... I'm sure we can all agree on that.

 

[Voice of fair play]

I'm invoking Evel Knievel ... I saw him fail to successfully jump 12 double decker buses, and thought he's a shite bus jumper. However, it transpires that he did in fact jump 12 (and more) successfully in the past so he might be actually considered a good one ... until you find that throughout his jumping (and failing to jump) career he experienced 433 broken bones, which in fact supports my original position ... he was crap and lucky to survive for future attempts. All I can say in support of Mr Kneivel is that at least he had the balls to try, and that impressed a lot of people, especially when he succeeded.

The Neil sending off was perfectly analogous to an attempt to jump the Grand Canyon on a star spangled rocket ... I'm sure we can all agree on that.

I once saw Arsenal get a penalty and Henry and Pires between them manage to move that penalty about a inch!

I mean how useless are them two footballers doing that!!!

not even getting a shot away from pen can’t get more useless than that?

Doesn’t matter what they done before absolutely useless footballers they must be making such a big mistake!!

 

[Flavonoids]

I once saw Arsenal get a penalty and Henry and Pires between them manage to move that penalty about a inch!

I mean how useless are them two footballers doing that!!!

not even getting a shot away from pen can’t get more useless than that?

Doesn’t matter what they done before absolutely useless footballers they must be making such a big mistake!!

They never tried that again, whereas this fool keeps trying the same thing over and over again (refereeing) - the witless fool.

 

[redandwhiterob]

They never tried that again, whereas this fool keeps trying the same thing over and over again (refereeing) - the witless fool.

Haway man, we know you like playing up to the image of being a clever shite on here but every referee has made and will continue to make mistakes. The most baffling thing is people still seemed surprised when they happen

 

[Silky]

Haway man, we know you like playing up to the image of being a clever shite on here but every referee has made and will continue to make mistakes. The most baffling thing is people still seemed surprised when they happen

Yes, he had a bad game. Yes, he made several mistakes. He probably won't make the same ones in his next game.

But for most on here the big problem is the major thing he did which was not a mistake, it was a decision. A decision which has baffled everyone to the point that my normally rational mind is thinking there something very odd has gone on. Even Mowbray, who isn't normally known for whingeing about refs, had some (for him) pretty harsh words for it.

Everything else he got wrong - missing the elbow to Ballard, booking a player but not including it in his match report among others - you can pass off as mistakes, or having a bad game. Neil's sending off is something different and defies any logical explanation.