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Sunderland railway station.


PhilY said:
New enhanced national direct rail connections to major cities in the UK.

To start with, re-extending TPE services (eg from Manchester to Sunderland), ensuring that the future works to the north end of the station include re-opening the currently mothballed platforms under Market Square, then lobbying for upgrades on the Durham Coast Line to allow higher speed travel on that and, ultimately creating a new direct connection to the ECML.

First and foremost, however, we need to convince NECA of the merits of releasing the brakes on Sunderland - the Mayor is attending a meeting of the Sunderland Public Transport Users’ group at the end of this month and we’re already in correspondence with her office.
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"New enhanced national direct rail connections to major cities in the UK."

It's not as simple as wishing for it. There has to be a business case for new services which then have to be negotiated with potential franchisees then the details of the franchise and its impact on other franchises such as Grand Central. Rolling stock has to be leased and traincrew trained esp Drivers.

"To start with, re-extending TPE services (eg from Manchester to Sunderland), ensuring that the future works to the north end of the station include re-opening the currently mothballed platforms under Market Square, then lobbying for upgrades on the Durham Coast Line to allow higher speed travel on that and, ultimately creating a new direct connection to the ECML."

As before, and in the case of TPE I believe that a large part of the original reason they were cut back to Newcastle is that the Sunderland - Newcastle line is saturated with Metro trains and that Sunderland station suffers from only having 2 physical platforms*. Also TPE trains from Newcastle to Sunderland had to cut across the path of ECML trains at Newcastle which interfered with ECML services. Nothing has changed with these problems.

"First and foremost, however, we need to convince NECA of the merits of releasing the brakes on Sunderland - the Mayor is attending a meeting of the Sunderland Public Transport Users’ group at the end of this month and we’re already in correspondence with her office."

Getting a government official of any sort involved will not resolve the practical problems I have listed above which are only those I can think of from the top of my head. Feel free to take up the points I've made here with the Mayor.

* When the station was last rebuilt and when it was rebuilt for the Metro I pointed out that it was ridiculous to not address the shortage of platforms before anything else but sadly I have no influence with the authorities.
PhilY said:
In theory, yes, but not on their current timetabling.

The Durham coast line is limited to 50mph south of Sunderland. It needs and deserves investment to raise that and properly link up the coast.
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The Durham Coast line was modernised about 13 years ago with new signalling and track but it is constrained by tight curves at Hall Dene , Harlepool (2) , and Stockton plus subsidence issues under the viaducts due to coal mining. There's no way to improve the speed on those curves.
 
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PinzaC55 said:
"New enhanced national direct rail connections to major cities in the UK."

It's not as simple as wishing for it. There has to be a business case for new services which then have to be negotiated with potential franchisees then the details of the franchise and its impact on other franchises such as Grand Central. Rolling stock has to be leased and traincrew trained esp Drivers.

"To start with, re-extending TPE services (eg from Manchester to Sunderland), ensuring that the future works to the north end of the station include re-opening the currently mothballed platforms under Market Square, then lobbying for upgrades on the Durham Coast Line to allow higher speed travel on that and, ultimately creating a new direct connection to the ECML."

As before, and in the case of TPE I believe that a large part of the original reason they were cut back to Newcastle is that the Sunderland - Newcastle line is saturated with Metro trains and that Sunderland station suffers from only having 2 physical platforms*. Also TPE trains from Newcastle to Sunderland had to cut across the path of ECML trains at Newcastle which interfered with ECML services. Nothing has changed with these problems.

"First and foremost, however, we need to convince NECA of the merits of releasing the brakes on Sunderland - the Mayor is attending a meeting of the Sunderland Public Transport Users’ group at the end of this month and we’re already in correspondence with her office."

Getting a government official of any sort involved will not resolve the practical problems I have listed above which are only those I can think of from the top of my head. Feel free to take up the points I've made here with the Mayor.

* When the station was last rebuilt and when it was rebuilt for the Metro I pointed out that it was ridiculous to not address the shortage of platforms before anything else but sadly I have no influence with the authorities.


The Durham Coast line was modernised about 13 years ago with new signalling and track but it is constrained by tight curves at Hall Dene , Harlepool (2) , and Stockton plus subsidence issues under the viaducts due to coal mining. There's no way to improve the speed on those curves.
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I’m well aware. I acquired GC for Arriva in 2010 and then made 3 separate applications to the ORR to increase service frequency.

NCL - SUN line is not “saturated” with Metro trains. Total current usage is c. 8 trains/hour. That line will easily handle 10 t/hour - although nexus will claim (as they repeatedly tried after 2010) to that it won’t. Thankfully, their understanding of rail is about as robust as their performance in running Metro would indicate.

Sun - Hartlepool is more than capable of being improved * - it just needs investment.

*hartlepool is a massive constraint, for obvious reasons, so it’s not going to get up to Maine’s spends anytime soon but it could be massively improved and journey times reduced.
 
PhilY said:
I’m well aware. I acquired GC for Arriva in 2010 and then made 3 separate applications to the ORR to increase service frequency.

NCL - SUN line is not “saturated” with Metro trains. Total current usage is c. 8 trains/hour. That line will easily handle 10 t/hour - although nexus will claim (as they repeatedly tried after 2010) to that it won’t. Thankfully, their understanding of rail is about as robust as their performance in running Metro would indicate.

Sun - Hartlepool is more than capable of being improved * - it just needs investment.

*hartlepool is a massive constraint, for obvious reasons, so it’s not going to get up to Maine’s spends anytime soon but it could be massively improved and journey times reduced.
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Righty ho. Let us know how you get on.
 
dancingradio said:
Aye but the do gooders wont hear a bad word said about these poor under privileged people who cant work cos they are too triggered
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Someone on question time last week too anxious to work but will happily appear on national tv to question a politician
The whole blue badge motobility thing is being exploited and rinsed often by people who are quick to jump in to complain about others
 
Lord Nigle said:
How difficult would it be to reinstate the Durham to Sunderland line?
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Not necessarily technically difficult but very expensive. The A1 is there now for a start. Unlike the Leamside line, it hasn't had the stone just left down, a lot of the old line is overgrown and sectioned off and indeed developed on. Plus you need to get across the Wear.

You could come off and use the top way, but then the Belmont viaduct would need a lot spending on it, if indeed it can be used and you still need to cross the A1 to link up with the leamside line.
 
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Struts said:
I’ve wondered if a TPE service starting at Newcastle and heading down the DCL, stopping at Sunderland & Hartlepool before joining onto the ECML and then onto Leeds & Manchester would work.
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It would if Network Rail managed to increase the Line Speed on sections that could cope with it.
 
PhilY said:
Easily 10p/hr from the last study I remember.

That’s six minutes per track section. Comfortable. Plus, I would expect that the new metros have got better signalling equipment that the old ones so a new assessment would likely see that number increase. I’m fairly sure (although it’s going back a few years) that the older signalling systems in the old trains necessitated longer gaps between services.

Track capacity was never Nexus’ best argument when trying to stop GC increasing services to Sunderland - abstraction was, although we still bear that - but it didn’t stop them throwing everything they could at trying to protect NCL.
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What do you mean by the signalling equipment in the trains? You are saying the new metro trains have better signalling equipment than the old ones.
 
royaldragon said:
He probably means In Cab Signalling.
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In cab signalling is installed in the new Class 555s, the GC 180s and so far one Azuma and some Welsh regional trains and London commuter trains, but as yet the only places it is active are the North Wales Coast line and the Northern City Line from Finsbury Park to Moorgate. It's being rolled out on the southern ECML next.

As yet the Sunderland line isn't so equipped and the trains will run under conventional signals for the immediate future, but the funding has been approved including the shared section on Network Rail metals.

See this thread on RailUK:
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PhilY said:
I’m well aware. I acquired GC for Arriva in 2010 and then made 3 separate applications to the ORR to increase service frequency.
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Some flex on this thread, there marra :lol:
Beau Peep said:
Butt as yet the only places it is active are the North Wales Coast line and the Northern City Line
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I should say Cambrian Coast line, not North Wales Coast
 
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CissesUnderpants9 said:
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Contractors appointed to help get Leamside railway project over the line​


Been keeping track of this story, seems positive news.
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They can’t run any sort of service now, never mind opening extensions.

Even with the new rolling stock things have been getting worse. Anybody else would be finding solutions to their current problems before expanding
 
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