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Sunderland AFC U21s

1more said:
I'm not against playing out from the back. What I am against is taking ridiculous risks in front of our own goal.

Also there's nothing wrong with a ball into the channels and a ball into the front man to play off.

I just think we should be trying to develop a winning attitude once you reach u18s
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I'd love to see how many conceded and scored from playing out from the back
 

sarboas said:
is there really no jeopardy though? Harrison Jones has been there since pre-academy and it about to be released - it's about as brutal as you get
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Don’t think there is much jeopardy, he is effectively still serving an apprenticeship playing in u21 games at 22. Maybe there should be an examination of the ambition of a player who has coasted the early years of his career in the u21 zone and the club really should be thinking about the lack of drive of someone doing that. They have done him a disservice by allowing him to reach 22 with effectively very little first team football and now looking for a new club. Perhaps they were happy for him to make up the numbers in the u21 whilst knowing he was never really challenging the first team, which if true is unfair on the lad.
 
Labrat said:
Don’t think there is much jeopardy, he is effectively still serving an apprenticeship playing in u21 games at 22. Maybe there should be an examination of the ambition of a player who has coasted the early years of his career in the u21 zone and the club really should be thinking about the lack of drive of someone doing that. They have done him a disservice by allowing him to reach 22 with effectively very little first team football and now looking for a new club. Perhaps they were happy for him to make up the numbers in the u21 whilst knowing he was never really challenging the first team, which if true is unfair on the lad.
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I think people are forgetting that we got to the Premier League ahead of schedule, he would have had a chance of being more of a late bloomer like George Honeyman if we hadn't come up and was worth keeping around to play some Championship minutes. Should have got himself a move last summer though.
 
Labrat said:
Maybe there should be an examination of the ambition of a player who has coasted the early years of his career in the u21 zone and the club really should be thinking about the lack of drive of someone doing that.
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He also had a bad injury and missed a season at a crucial stage in his development, he’s had to work hard to come back from that. Not coasted by any means.
 
andy78 said:
I think people are forgetting that we got to the Premier League ahead of schedule, he would have had a chance of being more of a late bloomer like George Honeyman if we hadn't come up and was worth keeping around to play some Championship minutes. Should have got himself a move last summer though.
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Don't want to keep singling the lad out but he was never going to get minutes in the championship, to light weight he does not really boss u21 games. Watched a blog and it might have been @10 Trenches Deep said most in the academy are just there to make the numbers up for the one or two who actually will make it.
He now finds himself trying to find club as a near 22 year old with limited first team experience, think the club have let him down by not allowing him to gain lower league experience. It's something they should look at with a few more as they need the challenge outside of the academy comfort zone. It will also give a better indication of the potential going forward, it's interesting that some of the lads who have been out to Hebburn etc have been released.
 
Labrat said:
Don't want to keep singling the lad out but he was never going to get minutes in the championship, to light weight he does not really boss u21 games. Watched a blog and it might have been @10 Trenches Deep said most in the academy are just there to make the numbers up for the one or two who actually will make it.
He now finds himself trying to find club as a near 22 year old with limited first team experience, think the club have let him down by not allowing him to gain lower league experience. It's something they should look at with a few more as they need the challenge outside of the academy comfort zone. It will also give a better indication of the potential going forward, it's interesting that some of the lads who have been out to Hebburn etc have been released.
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He was in the match day squad 35 times last season and has been 17 times this season. He would have played more if we had never got promoted and while he could probably have done with a loan, he has been featuring in the squad more than enough to warrant him not going out on one.
 
RedSky said:
He also had a bad injury and missed a season at a crucial stage in his development, he’s had to work hard to come back from that. Not coasted by any means.
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Fair enough but he has spent the last three seasons playing mainly u21 football, not sure what he is going to learn after the first season. Maybe not coasting but not pushing his development either.
andy78 said:
He was in the match day squad 35 times last season and has been 17 times this season. He would have played more if we had never got promoted and while he could probably have done with a loan, he has been featuring in the squad more than enough to warrant him not going out on one.
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Come on Andy, he was clearly on the bench as a filler and only played in the dead rubbers when le bris was gearing up for the play offs. 121 minutes on the pitch for all those match day squads. He was never coming of the bench in the premier League they could have included any of the other u21s for that role. It's brutal how they have used him this season and then released him to try to find another club. I hope he gets a good move but the club have not done him any favours in that regard.
 
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Labrat said:
Don't want to keep singling the lad out but he was never going to get minutes in the championship, to light weight he does not really boss u21 games. Watched a blog and it might have been @10 Trenches Deep said most in the academy are just there to make the numbers up for the one or two who actually will make it.
He now finds himself trying to find club as a near 22 year old with limited first team experience, think the club have let him down by not allowing him to gain lower league experience. It's something they should look at with a few more as they need the challenge outside of the academy comfort zone. It will also give a better indication of the potential going forward, it's interesting that some of the lads who have been out to Hebburn etc have been released.
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If you loan them all out you will need some others to make the numbers up.
 
sick said:
If you loan them all out you will need some others to make the numbers up.
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You need to keep progressing, Jack Whittaker has played 30 u21 games this season another season in the u21 will have little impact. A loan will be more beneficial and push him out his comfort zone. Another player from the u18 is then given his chance in Jack's place. A 21 year playing three seasons of u21 football is benefiting neither.
 
Labrat said:
You need to keep progressing, Jack Whittaker has played 30 u21 games this season another season in the u21 will have little impact. A loan will be more beneficial and push him out his comfort zone. Another player from the u18 is then given his chance in Jack's place. A 21 year playing three seasons of u21 football is benefiting neither.
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Completely agree.
Most players will have played 21s while still 18s as well so would be finding it way too easy by the end of the 1st full 21s season.
2nd and 3rd year pros would surely benefit from experiencing 1st team football either pushing at their parent club or out on loan.
21s should be for hungry, promising 18s and 1st year pros I think.
You would get a better standard of 21s football too because if you look at a lot of older 21s they sometimes look like they dont want to be there and you can kind of understand that in a way
 
There are other non football factors of course.
Who really wants to leave their home club?
There's always hope while you're in the building that you'll get an opportunity a sliding doors moment.
Physical capability. Some kids probably don't reach their mature state until they're 21.
Money? Not sure how much these kids get paid in their first professional contract but it's maybe more than they'd be earning in a League Two first team squad.
I doubt there's a one size fits all solution for player development but the reality is that the club have probably identified the one or two players per intake who they think has a chance and everyone else is making up the numbers or swimming against the tide to make it.
Personally I think the problem is U21's playing against U21's. Back in the day it was Youth Team, Reserves, First Team.
That's never coming back so what can you do to get young players experience against playing mens football?
Loans where you have less control over how/when the player trains and plays.
Get yourself a foreign feeder club where you can send young players in a more controlled environment. Would probably help with accessing foreign talent re permits but not sure what it would mean for home grown status. Foreign football is probably more akin to EPL than League Two re possession football etc anyway.
Or is it time for a shake up of the English lower leagues? Should there be B Teams in the pyramid at say league two/conference level. Seems to work in Spain? Maybe make it regional. I'm sure plenty would follow a Sunderland B team away to Hartlepool. Youth Team, B Team, First Team.
 
I think in Harrison Jones' case he has never looked physically capable of playing mens football, far too thin.

Most players in academies are just making up the numbers really, we have done well to have Rigg, Watson and Young come through and have a chance of making it. Not bad for a club that had it's academy cut right back by Donald/Methven a few years ago.
 
Im wrang oni said:
There are other non football factors of course.
Who really wants to leave their home club?
There's always hope while you're in the building that you'll get an opportunity a sliding doors moment.
Physical capability. Some kids probably don't reach their mature state until they're 21.
Money? Not sure how much these kids get paid in their first professional contract but it's maybe more than they'd be earning in a League Two first team squad.
I doubt there's a one size fits all solution for player development but the reality is that the club have probably identified the one or two players per intake who they think has a chance and everyone else is making up the numbers or swimming against the tide to make it.
Personally I think the problem is U21's playing against U21's. Back in the day it was Youth Team, Reserves, First Team.
That's never coming back so what can you do to get young players experience against playing mens football?
Loans where you have less control over how/when the player trains and plays.
Get yourself a foreign feeder club where you can send young players in a more controlled environment. Would probably help with accessing foreign talent re permits but not sure what it would mean for home grown status. Foreign football is probably more akin to EPL than League Two re possession football etc anyway.
Or is it time for a shake up of the English lower leagues? Should there be B Teams in the pyramid at say league two/conference level. Seems to work in Spain? Maybe make it regional. I'm sure plenty would follow a Sunderland B team away to Hartlepool. Youth Team, B Team, First Team.
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yeah feeder clubs would be good and im sure some clubs used to do this and might still do so.
B team would be much better for sure too but like you said can't see that coming back unfortunately.
The 21s definitely has to be looked at though. When you have 3rd year pros up against an under 16 its way too easy and theyre not being challenged in these games are they.
I've said it before but it does look like a young 21s group next season for us so that will be interesting
Hetty said:
Ivan Struk and George Bell released
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Have to feel for both of these with their 2 years of the scholarship being so hampered with injuries.
 
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