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Southampton spying compendium thread

Other than deciding the question of Southampton's guilt or innocence I don't think that the situation is that complicated.

The Play-Offs is a competition that has common sense rules. In the semi finals clubs involved are designated opponents who they are required to play twice and beat on aggregate in order to move on to the final. However Rule 127 of the Football League headed "Prohibited Conduct" says;

"Clubs are forbidden from directly or indirectly observing or attempting to observe another club's training session within 72 hours of a match.
Clubs are required to act with "utmost good faith" toward each other and the league, meaning unethical gathering of information is a violation of general conduct."

Nothing is said about any of the intelligence that's gathered about another Club having to be of any value or of practical use to those who have gathered it.

Violation of this rule can result in a fine or a points deduction but in the case of a "tournament" which the play-offs are the prospect of disqualifying an offending Club is raised . (It seems to me points deductions and fines would be more appropriate to cheating in league games),

In the Play-offs semi finals if a Club fulfils the requirement to play but loses to an opponent who it turns out has cheated then its the team that has played the fixture according to the rules who should go through to the final.
 

Lord Potts said:
Other than deciding the question of Southampton's guilt or innocence I don't think that the situation is that complicated.

The Play-Offs is a competition that has common sense rules. In the semi finals clubs involved are designated opponents who they are required to play twice and beat on aggregate in order to move on to the final. However Rule 127 of the Football League headed "Prohibited Conduct" says;

"Clubs are forbidden from directly or indirectly observing or attempting to observe another club's training session within 72 hours of a match.
Clubs are required to act with "utmost good faith" toward each other and the league, meaning unethical gathering of information is a violation of general conduct."

Nothing is said about any of the intelligence that's gathered about another Club having to be of any value or of practical use to those who have gathered it.

Violation of this rule can result in a fine or a points deduction but in the case of a "tournament" which the play-offs are the prospect of disqualifying an offending Club is raised . (It seems to me points deductions and fines would be more appropriate to cheating in league games),

In the Play-offs semi finals if a Club fulfils the requirement to play but loses to an opponent who it turns out has cheated then its the team that has played the fixture according to the rules who should go through to the final.
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Reading that, sounds to me like the solution will be to put Boro in the final.
 
Lord Potts said:
Provide Southampton is guilty . We mustn't rush to conclusions although the FL needs to get its finger out.
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I think they're 100% guilty of it and the only issue is proving it conclusively. There's absolutely no chance they didn't know this bloke was doing what he was doing with professional surveillance equipment and a bag full of stuff to change his appearance. They've literally got him on CCTV
 
Disco_Pants93 said:
I'm really struggling to see a way out of this for the EFL where they don't look like a shower of shite. Southampton shouldn't have been allowed to play in the semi finals if they're to be expelled from the playoffs and it's unfair on Boro to let whoever is in the final take Southamptons place if they went up. The EFL can't force a points deduction in the PL. They're never going to give Southampton a 3-0 defeat in the first leg because that would've changed the whole dynamic of the second leg. They can obviously issue a fine but no way is that enough of a punishment.

But then, where do you stop? If it transpires that Southampton have been doing it since the german took over then every team who missed out on the playoffs has a case as well. The likes of Wrexham who got battered by Southampton quite randomly as well. Southampton winning last night has made it 10x worse for the EFL.
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I can't see how they could have stopped them playing, when they haven't been found guilty of anything yet.

If they've been cheating through the season then their punishment will be greater.
 
Disco_Pants93 said:
I think they're 100% guilty of it and the only issue is proving it conclusively. There's absolutely no chance they didn't know this bloke was doing what he was doing with professional surveillance equipment and a bag full of stuff to change his appearance. They've literally got him on CCTV
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It did strike me that they identified him as a Southampton employee quite quickly. I mean it didn't appear to be some nutty Saints fan or a journalist that was hiding in the bushes.
 
Dogbark said:
I can't see how they could have stopped them playing, when they haven't been found guilty of anything yet.

If they've been cheating through the season then their punishment will be greater.
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The issue will be proving they've done it over a prolonged period even if true.
 
Lord Potts said:
It did strike me that they identified him as a Southampton employee quite quickly. I mean it didn't appear to be some nutty Saints fan or a journalist that was hiding in the bushes.
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100% mate. It would've been publicised right off the bat if it was just some lunatic on his own and it's already in the mainstream media that the bloke in question has been seen celebrating with the Southampton manager this season during games. You can tell by the way their manager is handling the questions he knows they're banged to rights it's just a question of the punishment now.
 
Disco_Pants93 said:
I'm really struggling to see a way out of this for the EFL where they don't look like a shower of shite. Southampton shouldn't have been allowed to play in the semi finals if they're to be expelled from the playoffs and it's unfair on Boro to let whoever is in the final take Southamptons place if they went up. The EFL can't force a points deduction in the PL. They're never going to give Southampton a 3-0 defeat in the first leg because that would've changed the whole dynamic of the second leg. They can obviously issue a fine but no way is that enough of a punishment.

But then, where do you stop? If it transpires that Southampton have been doing it since the german took over then every team who missed out on the playoffs has a case as well. The likes of Wrexham who got battered by Southampton quite randomly as well. Southampton winning last night has made it 10x worse for the EFL.
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I have a feeling they are just going to say there isn't enough evidence to charge them so the whole thing will go away.
 
ATS said:
I have a feeling they are just going to say there isn't enough evidence to charge them so the whole thing will go away.
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Can't see that washing personally. They literally caught him red handed with all the gear and stuff to change his appearance. Even if that's all they found, it's still worthy of a strong punishment imo.
 
Lord Potts said:
It did strike me that they identified him as a Southampton employee quite quickly. I mean it didn't appear to be some nutty Saints fan or a journalist that was hiding in the bushes.
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Agree, mind I fail to see what advantage they were hoping to gain.I have , watched a few Boro games lately and if they were X rayed it would be found that there isnt any football in them.Did SFC think Boro had a master plan ,incredible really.
 
jarrowdiamond said:
Why?
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You really think within 48 hours they can sort the charges out, get all evidence submitted and looked at and then process the Southamptons right to appeal and maybe even a hearing at the court of arbitration for sport etc within 48 hours?

Good luck with that. It's not reality.
 
Hellberg said they have no plans to continue training so it looks like Boro have already accepted they won't be part of the play off final.
 
Mowgli said:
You really think within 48 hours they can sort the charges out, get all evidence submitted and looked at and then process the Southamptons right to appeal and maybe even a hearing at the court of arbitration for sport etc within 48 hours?

Good luck with that. It's not reality.
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If they've been caught red handed, which it sounds like they have, all the left to do is to decide the sanctions. Surely that can and needs to be done before the final
 
Statement should read " alreet, Southampton you've brought game into disrepute so 15 pts deduction next season and git big fine. Boro , you're not gaining as you're shite , and your own fault for playing Castledine for an hour, and Roger Whitakker all game".
 
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