SOL expansion

[PhilY]

Yeah I'd agree it could be modernised but some just seem obsessed with increasing the capacity when it's simply just not needed. Talking about symmetry and some sort of dortmund wall like there's a business case for that

For some it very much seems to be about extra seats

There will be sold out games this season - not to mention the untapped demand from people who would go if they could get a group of seats together a day or two before the game.

If anything is running at 80%+ average capacity there is untapped demand. Stadiums, trains, concerts, restaurants. Etc.

40k is over 85% of usable capacity.

 

[Brett]

Just to add since Liverpool redid the stadium and added all the new corporate sections, big gigs have appeared regularly and getting many more events then we have.

This year anfield already has Dua Lipa doing 2 nights and just announced Billy Joel

 

[Wearson]

Our corporate and even concourse for the average fans have dated badly.

The stadium was built when things were different, you couldn't get a pint at roker park and it wasn't expected for fans to turn up early

Would love to know if the club do have a plan for expanding concourses and Inproving corporate offerings. Unsure if this is something RAWA @Becs can ask at the next meeting as it comes up here often

And if so when can we epect to hear anything

Interestingly, we did turn up early at Roker Park.
When we were getting decent crowds, because it was standing you had to get in early to get “your place” or a good spot to stand. You didn’t hang around downstairs much.
We would sometimes be hours before kick off, but only spend a tanner (on peanuts).
Soon there won’t be anyone who recalls those days. They’ll be getting “at seat service” or maybe games of 4 quarters to give more opportunities to buy hot dogs and popcorn

 

[Brett]

Interestingly, we did turn up early at Roker Park.
When we were getting decent crowds, because it was standing you had to get in early to get “your place” or a good spot to stand. You didn’t hang around downstairs much.
We would sometimes be hours before kick off, but only spend a tanner (on peanuts).
Soon there won’t be anyone who recalls those days. They’ll be getting “at seat service” or maybe games of 4 quarters to give more opportunities to buy hot dogs and popcorn

I did go to roker park as I'm 43 but obviously far too young to get served so no idea what the culture was pre match for drinking

 

[Hepscott Geordie]

Would we give it to the mags next time we play them?

Thats KLDs decision...

 

[Wrenthorpe Mackem]

As I've said ^. It's all about whether adding those boxes vs the added costs of servicing them being worth it.

I'm thinking that it must be worth expanding still, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing so many clubs doing so.

I'd love to see the day when I've parked up in a spacious car park, without needing a bank loan, then I'm walking over the new footbridge, or even better on a Monorail, looking at our amazing stadium.

The whole of the approach to the stadium looking less like a wasteland and more like a modern collection of food and drink outlets, bars, restaurants and maybe even hotels.

I'd then like to enter the stadium a couple of hours before the match. Once inside, I'd like affordable food and drink without queuing for longer than 5 minutes.

I'd like much much wider concourse areas, with seating for the elderly and frail and space for kids to not feel intimidated and feeling like they're Lilliput inhabitants.

Access to smoking areas would be great too, but done so that you don't feel like a leper.

I'd like access to retail opportunities too, such as ticketing, betting, club shop (preordering?) with unmanned outlets using IT EPOS systems maybe being the solution here.

I'd like proper large screens everywhere in the concourse and or a decent app that broadcasts everything you'd want, media wise i.e. highlights/replays, team sheets, live betting, half time activities streamed so you could actually tell what's garn on, close ups of players before and after the match and manager statements/interviews almost real time. You could even have daft interviews with fans. This would need 5g of course.

I'm more than happy with seating and the actual match experience, although moving the away fans so that we can improve the atmosphere and maximise our capacity better is a must.

Afterwards I'd like to be able book a seat at a restaurant within half a mile and as an exile, maybe even book a close by hotel.

Meanwhile, back in Sunderland, we can't even acknowledge that for many, digital tickets and SCs simply don't work.

I like your vision!

 

[Wearson]

I did go to roker park as I'm 43 but obviously far too young to get served so no idea what the culture was pre match for drinking

Arrived pissed
Not dissimilar to today.

 

[Wrenthorpe Mackem]

The only concern though is that ever since the 1950s we've always been a yo-yo club. Clubs that have 50 and 60 thousand capacities are usually solid Prem clubs with little risk of relegation. Attendances are solid now because there is a feeling that the club is building something and we have an exciting young team. But we were in financial trouble not too long ago and the way modern football is, this could happen again in the future. I think a packed-out 49k SOL is fine. Just my opinion though.

46K nowadays.

 

[Zimba]

46K nowadays.

To be fair it's still a 49k stadium. We just choose to lose 3k seats as they're not needed which pretty much sums up how much expansion we need.

There will be sold out games this season - not to mention the untapped demand from people who would go if they could get a group of seats together a day or two before the game.

If anything is running at 80%+ average capacity there is untapped demand. Stadiums, trains, concerts, restaurants. Etc.

40k is over 85% of usable capacity.

Must say that's a bizarre outlook because there's 20% empty seats. I'm not sure how that's untapped demand.

Any and I meant any economics graph the supply is more than the demand.

 

[PhilY]

To be fair it's still a 49k stadium. We just choose to lose 3k seats as they're not needed which pretty much sums up how much expansion we need.


Must say that's a bizarre outlook because there's 20% empty seats. I'm not sure how that's untapped demand.

Any and I meant any economics graph the supply is more than the demand.

It’s an established economic phenomenon.

Some people are put off if they can’t get their choice of seating area / sit with a group.

Those people are also likely to be less price-sensitive.

For example - a group of non-season ticket holders who fancy a day at the footy might be happy to pay £30-35 a ticket for a decent seat grouped all together.

Season tickets in the East or West stands are priced at a significant discount c.£250 I think to that.

 

[Wearson]

To be fair it's still a 49k stadium. We just choose to lose 3k seats as they're not needed which pretty much sums up how much expansion we need.


Must say that's a bizarre outlook because there's 20% empty seats. I'm not sure how that's untapped demand.

Any and I meant any economics graph the supply is more than the demand.

In modern day economics, it’s not about filling the seats every time. Look at cinemas, I don’t recall the last time I was in an 80% full cinema but plenty money was still changing hands.
The SoL extensions are more about where the real money can be made, hopefully.
Let’s not act small.

 

[Bacon]

clubs with large stadiums and large hospitality areas have massive fan bases and massive waiting lists for season tickets and ballot systems for match day tickets that is what generates high gate receipts (gate receipts being the main purpose of stadiums) that’s why clubs who could easily have 80-100k seater grounds are happy enough with 60k because the shortfall of seats means the much more convenient and reliable way of getting a ticket is to book into the expensive hospitality suites if the kids want tickets for birthday/Xmas gift that would be the only guaranteed way as well as paying membership fees for the privilege to be on a waiting list or on the ballot for match day tickets. There’s adding a few extra boxes and creating extra hospitality within the current facilities if KLD feels there’s enough demand there but to think we’re adding another stand with thousands of seats just because we might as well doesn’t make any economic sense at all we’re still making losses now why add another debt burden to the books with no current foreseeable return on investment wether it affects PSR or not.

 

[Weststand]

clubs with large stadiums and large hospitality areas have massive fan bases and massive waiting lists for season tickets and ballot systems for match day tickets that is what generates high gate receipts (gate receipts being the main purpose of stadiums) that’s why clubs who could easily have 80-100k seater grounds are happy enough with 60k because the shortfall of seats means the much more convenient and reliable way of getting a ticket is to book into the expensive hospitality suites if the kids want tickets for birthday/Xmas gift that would be the only guaranteed way as well as paying membership fees for the privilege to be on a waiting list or on the ballot for match day tickets. There’s adding a few extra boxes and creating extra hospitality within the current facilities if KLD feels there’s enough demand there but to think we’re adding another stand with thousands of seats just because we might as well doesn’t make any economic sense at all we’re still making losses now why add another debt burden to the books with no current foreseeable return on investment wether it affects PSR or not.

....and breathe..

 

[Ghfd]

Not convinced me

I wasn’t really impressed when it happened originally

I find over the years outside the top clubs , clubs that extend , usually end up relegated a couple of years later

I’m also not convinced that safc could have a regular 50000 plus attendance at the prices it costs to attend football these days

It may happen for one or two games but v Oxford as an example ?

 

[Wearson]

Not convinced me

I wasn’t really impressed when it happened originally

I find over the years outside the top clubs , clubs that extend , usually end up relegated a couple of years later

I’m also not convinced that safc could have a regular 50000 plus attendance at the prices it costs to attend football these days

It may happen for one or two games but v Oxford as an example ?

We are hovering around 40k at the top end of the championship.
I think Premier League football would attract the additional few thousand easily, and need more hospitality packages.
Our plan is to be a Prem club so we should plan for all aspects.

 

[Ghfd]

We are hovering around 40k at the top end of the championship.
I think Premier League football would attract the additional few thousand easily, and need more hospitality packages.
Our plan is to be a Prem club so we should plan for all aspects.

It’s the cost of attending that makes me doubt it

It will go up if we are in the premier league again

 

[Wearson]

It’s the cost of attending that makes me doubt it

It will go up if we are in the premier league again

Times are changing. Going to any “event” costs a few quid these days.

I actually would think that any extensions being planned are based around adding hospitality and not just “more seats”. If the expansion creates room for more seats then so be it, but it won’t be just to add seats.

 

[Ghfd]

Times are changing. Going to any “event” costs a few quid these days.

I actually would think that any extensions being planned are based around adding hospitality and not just “more seats”. If the expansion creates room for more seats then so be it, but it won’t be just to add seats.

Fair point. Let’s hope we are in a position to entice extra fans due to success

 

[ajsafc]

Sling it up, fuk it

 

[Zimba]

It’s an established economic phenomenon.

Some people are put off if they can’t get their choice of seating area / sit with a group.

Those people are also likely to be less price-sensitive.

For example - a group of non-season ticket holders who fancy a day at the footy might be happy to pay £30-35 a ticket for a decent seat grouped all together.

Season tickets in the East or West stands are priced at a significant discount c.£250 I think to that.

I don't disagree per say, but if you did do an extension, on the East or South stand you're going to lose the back 7 rows or so of the lower bowl.

I'd argue you're making the choice actually worse because you're forcing people into the gods where people don't want to be in the main. You just have to look at how quiet the Premier Concourse is, compared to say the North Stand. They're just not good seats.

It works for other industries though as the argument say for a train would be instead of having one 9 carriage train, you'd have two 6 carriage trains instead and the extra demand comes from it being more frequent, same for concerts and airlines and what not but you can't do that with sports for obvious reasons.