• The forums will be unavailable for a few hours on Saturday 6th June, when they do return they will initially be in a degraded state with some features missing, but normal posting/reading will be possible. The main website will not be affected by these updates.
    New user registrations are currently disabled.
    Some other features of the forum are also currently disabled.

SOL expansion


Mowgli said:
Where are you plucking £15m from? There's no chance at all.

Obviously every ground is different but it cost Liverpool £80m to add 8,000 seats.

Some real pie in the sky nonsense on this thread.
Click to expand...
I'd love to know whether the club consider a 'feel good vibe' as sound reasoning to add more seats. I expect not as they know what they are doing
 
AndrewP said:
When was that?
Click to expand...
1970’s when it happened a couple of times a season. Not often but those were special occasions. Rest of the time it was a lot emptier, used to enjoy guessing the attendance based on how full the Roker / Fulwell wings were. The point I was trying to make is that ground capacity shouldn’t be planned on average attendances, but on getting the most in for those special games that occur on average a few times per season. For Roker Park the facilities lasted well over 70 years and for the Roker End they built it as big as they could. That ambition is what we need.

Saying 50k is enough for SAFC is saying we will never compete with the big clubs again. It accepts that Sunderland will never be supported in numbers like the bugger English teams; it accepts that SAFC are apart from the top clubs. That was the belief of Syd Collins’s in the 60’s to 70’s and why they accepted multiple capacity reductions at Roker Park without planning a move. Even when Murray was pushing forward with his 38k stadium plan, people were saying it was ridiculous as we couldn’t even fill our 13k capacity Roker Park.

IMHO that’s all bollocks, we outsupported any big teams who have been relegated and have now virtually sold out the season tickets after selling two of our best players and before signing any new players, while being everyone’s favourite to be relegated next year. We need additional capacity right now, and if we stay up that demand will only get larger.
 
Sgt Pepper said:
There were last time we were in the Premier League, our crowds were great considering how shit we were but the ground wasn’t full. Over to the stayaways/floaters/fans who attend when we’re in the PL to see if it’s needed longer term.

Nobody’s obsessed by them, they’re just questioning why we need to add more seats when the ones we currently have, have not been consistently filled. It feels ambitious to say we’d get 50k all of a sudden when in our last PL stint our highest averages were 43k, meaning there were a few thousand seats still available. Admittedly we were abysmal and haven’t had any ‘success’ to balance it so it was understandable, but there’s nothing to suggest if we struggled next season that the ones who are quick to stop going won’t be quick to stop going again.
Click to expand...
I think cos we obviously want to add more corporate facilities and this will cost a lot of money! You can either add boxes to the present ground footprint and reduce capacity to say 43000(a made up figure) and balance the money raised from the new facilities against the loss of seats or you extend out and add boxes and some seats and future proof the stadium and spend wisely in the process....

There is a section of our support who state that we shouldn't add more seats cos we don't fill the ground at its present capacity ..My view is that if your spending loads of dosh on structural changes to improve your revenue stream it would be madness not to add seats as it would be a very small proportion of the overall cost and would bring in revenue ,even if its just from concerts and a few games a season.I wouldn't add seats on there own but if your making huge structural changes you need to be smart in your use of money and bugger the empty seat brigade ''is it only safc that worries about empty seats as you don't hear much from the skunks
or man city fans!
Im a fan and i want the best team and the best stadium we can muster for our wonderful club and not for one second would not be bothered about empty seats and i don't understand the mentality of those who would!
 
Last edited:
Mowgli said:
Where are you plucking £15m from? There's no chance at all.

Obviously every ground is different but it cost Liverpool £80m to add 8,000 seats.

Some real pie in the sky nonsense on this thread.
Click to expand...
The North Stand Extension cost £5m to build as it had already been planned for and added 7000 seats. The same goes for the South stand, the extension has already been planned for. I trebled this original cost to take into account increased costs due to inflation etc. plus a slightly larger number of seats.

So not ‘pie in the sky’ figures, but based on our achieved reality as opposed to comparing it to a project starting from scratch, taking a lot longer due to the need for new groundwork plus demolition of existing infrastructure, none of which applies to us.
 
Chunky Dunky said:
1970’s when it happened a couple of times a season. Not often but those were special occasions. Rest of the time it was a lot emptier, used to enjoy guessing the attendance based on how full the Roker / Fulwell wings were. The point I was trying to make is that ground capacity shouldn’t be planned on average attendances, but on getting the most in for those special games that occur on average a few times per season. For Roker Park the facilities lasted well over 70 years and for the Roker End they built it as big as they could. That ambition is what we need.

Saying 50k is enough for SAFC is saying we will never compete with the big clubs again. It accepts that Sunderland will never be supported in numbers like the bugger English teams; it accepts that SAFC are apart from the top clubs. That was the belief of Syd Collins’s in the 60’s to 70’s and why they accepted multiple capacity reductions at Roker Park without planning a move. Even when Murray was pushing forward with his 38k stadium plan, people were saying it was ridiculous as we couldn’t even fill our 13k capacity Roker Park.

IMHO that’s all bollocks, we outsupported any big teams who have been relegated and have now virtually sold out the season tickets after selling two of our best players and before signing any new players, while being everyone’s favourite to be relegated next year. We need additional capacity right now, and if we stay up that demand will only get larger.
Click to expand...
This deluded belief that grounds have to be full to capacity every week is held by people who never went to football in the 70's, 80's 90's. I am watching Arsenal v Leicester at Highbury on the Big Match revisited at the moment , looks like 1975. The capacity at Highbury then was 60,000. There looks to be about 25-30k there, should they have demolished 2 sides of the ground? Capacity is the MOST number of people that can safely fit in. It is not how many people they think will be there every week. If a team is playing well, more people than usual will want to attend. That is how it it has always been. The club will want to accommodate as many paying customers as they can in those circumstances. Everton went from 17k average to 40k average in the mid 80's when they got a side that started to win stuff.
 
Last edited:
Chunky Dunky said:
The North Stand Extension cost £5m to build as it had already been planned for and added 7000 seats. The same goes for the South stand, the extension has already been planned for. I trebled this original cost to take into account increased costs due to inflation etc. plus a slightly larger number of seats.

So not ‘pie in the sky’ figures, but based on our achieved reality as opposed to comparing it to a project starting from scratch, taking a lot longer due to the need for new groundwork plus demolition of existing infrastructure, none of which applies to us.
Click to expand...
If you add 7000 seats you need to have the ancillary support for this ..bogs, catering ect.....any changes will be dominated by corporate facilities and any extra seats will only be a small part of that process!
 
Last edited:
DH4 said:
This deluded belief that grounds have to be full to capacity every week is held by people who never went to football in the 70's, 80's 90's. I am watching Arsenal v Leicester at Highbury on the Big Match revisited at the moment , looks like 1975. The capacity at Highbury then was 60,000. There looks to be about 25-30k there, should they have demolished 2 sides of the ground? Capacity is the MOST number of people that can safely fit in. It is not how many people they think will be there every week. If a team is playing well, more people than usual will want to attend. That is how it it has always been. The club will want to accommodate as many paying customers as they can in those circumstances. Everton went from 17k average to 40k average in the mid 80's when they got a side that started to win stuff.
Click to expand...

Go to Statcat and look at our attendances. We could be 20k one match and 39k the next.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DH4
Chunky Dunky said:
The North Stand Extension cost £5m to build as it had already been planned for and added 7000 seats. The same goes for the South stand, the extension has already been planned for. I trebled this original cost to take into account increased costs due to inflation etc. plus a slightly larger number of seats.

So not ‘pie in the sky’ figures, but based on our achieved reality as opposed to comparing it to a project starting from scratch, taking a lot longer due to the need for new groundwork plus demolition of existing infrastructure, none of which applies to us.
Click to expand...
It will cost more than £15m to build another tier man :lol:

Imagine thinking it's as simply as triple 25 years ago cost :lol: really detailed analysis.
 
AndrewP said:
Why does it say 'lost magpie' on your profile?
Click to expand...
I honestly have no idea , I made a few sensible posts about the mags one day instead of the usual nonsense that gets posted on here and next thing I know it said lost magpie on my profile .
 
Lord Nigle said:
Hold on. The SoL was designed to enable expansion relatively cheaply . Anfield was not.
Click to expand...
We aren't just talking expansion though. People want to expand the tiers, increase the concourse areas and add multiple corporate options, boxes etc.

£15m wouldn't touch the sides man.
 
DonaldDownTheWing said:
Ours wouldn’t cost anywhere near what Liverpool’s did like.
Click to expand...
No it won't and I said every ground is different. But people would be massively surprised.

Somebody estimated the other day it would cost about half a million just to replace the running track around the pitch. People don't realise how big the area actually is at the stadium and everything associated.

You count just triple and extension from 25 years ago that was a smaller stand and more basic extension and claim that's the figure.
 
Northumberland Rocks said:
This season will be mostly sold out if not all games. We can not afford to lock out kids.

SAFC is in a unique position in the premier league with the SOL being relatively easy to extend and relatively cheaply. Nobody experts the owners to start building tomorrow but I would like to hope it’s being looked at.
Click to expand...
This is the one of the more important things for SAFC and a fact lost on many who moan the SOL is too large and should never have been expanded. Probably because they're bothered it looks crap and those nasty mags will take the piss out of empty seats.

Having the SOL that way has allowed the club to keep concessions in all parts of the ground and the low prices mean it doesn't break the bank to take the bairns. Some clubs limit their concession/family areas and that means unless the parents are a bit more well off then the bairns miss out. Just look at Boro for example as I'm sure I've mentioned them before but there's few clubs like SAFC that look after the next generation of fans by offering plenty of availability at affordable prices.

Getting as many bairns in means getting them hooked at a young age so they will make it an occasion as they grow up and many will be the 'core' supporters. They've been going to the match with their parent and it's not the 1st generation either as some will have generations of family who've gone to the games. Some of those who got in as bairns years ago will go no matter what when they grow up. That's why even though we've not been Premier League the last 8 seasons, we're still getting huge crowds and bairns can still get to see the lads for a reasonable price.

If the majority of bairns can't get in then you may lose them as future 'core' supporters. It will be hard to attract them to games if times are shite and those unable to go as bairns may not want to suddenly start going when they're older as they got into other things as a bairn growing up.
 
Last edited:
Mowgli said:
Where are you plucking £15m from? There's no chance at all.

Obviously every ground is different but it cost Liverpool £80m to add 8,000 seats.

Some real pie in the sky nonsense on this thread.
Click to expand...
Maaaaaaaan your revealing a surprising lack of recent SOL/SAFC knowledge there.
 
Mowgli said:
No it won't and I said every ground is different. But people would be massively surprised.

Somebody estimated the other day it would cost about half a million just to replace the running track around the pitch. People don't realise how big the area actually is at the stadium and everything associated.
Click to expand...

The actual extension probably wouldnt be that much, as in the new roof, concrete and steel work etc.

What they decide to put in the extension could be as much as they want it to be really.
 
Walmo said:
Tell you what, those that dislike the possibility of developing the stadium I know exactly how you feel.

At the cinema the other week the screening was only about 80% full. I was so embarrassed at the empty seats around me that I just couldn't enjoy the movie. I tried to explain to others sitting near me how embarrassing it was, and get this, they all just looked at me like I was the daft one?!

It gets even worse though. I found out they have plans to open a new premium screen with epic sound and those recliner sofa chairs. I asked the lad at the ticket office why on earth they would do this when there were empty seats in the movie I was just in? He said that sometimes the theatre will be full, especially for big movies, and that when it's not it isn't a big deal as an empty seat doesn't really cost them anything.

I couldn't believe he didn't understand why I was so annoyed. The absolute set of bastards man. :evil:
Click to expand...
I know your tongue is firmly in cheek, but the cinema. 😂
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top