Sky News and Hillsborough memorial...

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Statto Junkie said:

13-14 mins in has plenty on actual footage. Even when the gates were opened there was no mass charging.

The police withheld certain evidence, altered others and destroyed some.
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Yeah defs, just watching the Panorama now.

One question though, why was the gate opened? If it was due to overcrowding then why was the area so overcrowded?
 


watersedge said:
Agreed but the herd shouldn't have charged either. These days it would all be on CCTV and cover ups etc. wouldn't have worked.
Should fans be allowed standing areas again though nearly 20 years later or might it all still happen again?
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Who charged like? They weren't able to charge, they were bottle-necked.

Did you go to games in the 80s? I can remember being at Villa Park a few months later when a similar shambles outside was 'organised' by the coppers. They opened 1 turnstile and all of our fans were bottle-necked in a little terraced street.
I was just a bairn but was trapped against a wall and ridiculously relieved when I got into the ground. These poor sods had hell on earth awaiting them, when they did.
 
It only emerged last year that Hillsborough had no safety certificate when the match was played. The FA, Sheffield Wednesday, Sheffield Council and South Yorkshire police managed to cover that up for 24 fuckin years!.
Each and everyone of the fuckers who knew should be chucked on a bonfire and burnt in public. FA Blazers, Police, Councillors, Civil Servants, Sheff Wed board members every last man and woman jack or jill of em. Those in the jobs at the time and those who came after and helped cover it all up, hang em fuckin high.

watersedge said:
Agreed but the herd shouldn't have charged either. These days it would all be on CCTV and cover ups etc. wouldn't have worked.
Should fans be allowed standing areas again though nearly 20 years later or might it all still happen again?
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Jesus kerist man/woman. It was on cctv and it wasnt standing that killed people it was the fences ffs.
Standing at the SOL nowadays would result in people just spilling onto the pitch to avoid problems (In fact its part of the stadiums emergency evacuation plan).

Big Dunc said:
Kenwright did it last year, people outside merseyside assume Hillsborough is an LFC tragedy and whilst it was it was also a tragedy of the city with many blues losing loved ones and friends that day, add to that we played the other semi final that day it was the flip of a coin that could of seen us go there in Livepool's place. In response to a lad on GOT a while back questioning why Everton are building a permanent Hillsborough memorial at Goodison one of the posters on there made this brilliant reply to him which I'll share with you this may make it easier for you to understand why the two clubs unite when it comes to the tragedy:

"It had NOTHING to do with us' - sorry, that is utterly embarrassing, shameful, ridiculously bitter nonsense.

First of all, the idea behind this memorial has come from AN EVERTON FAN who lost his Liverpool supporting brother at Hillsborough.

Secondly, 'nothing to do with us'? Really? How old are you? We played in the other semi final that day. It was a flip of a coin, the balls in the FA draw bag that saw us play Norwich at Villa Park and Liverpool play Forest at Hillsborough. I was at Villa Park. We won the game, but it was utterly horrible coming home. Walking back to the car, I saw Everton fans extremely worried, frantically trying to get word to see if any of their mates/family who had gone to the other match were hurt. No one had a mobile phone then. Communication was hard, beyond queuing for the phone box and hoping you had sufficient change. And then some luck in getting through to someone who knew what was going on. I remember the 10 minute walk back to the car, parked on some minty industrial estate car park near the ground like it was yesterday. I heard radio reports from nearby cars - 15 dead, 25 dead, 35 dead. We had the radio on driving home, but I think we turned it off in the end, it was too upsetting. I think I cried at one point - I was only 10, but old enough to know this was a big deal. The following day, the enormity of everything began to sink in. People thought the Cup Final was going to be cancelled, but nobody truly cared.

The following Saturday, April 22, I went to Anfield with my mum, my brother and my nan, and we laid flowers on the pitch. I had never been to Anfield before. The ENTIRE PITCH was covered in flowers. I have never seen a scene like it since and it will live with me until the day I die. There were Everton scarves and flags everywhere, together with Liverpool scarves and flags. Liverpool didn't play for 3 weeks, their players simply couldn't stomach it, after the shock, the mourning and attending all of the funerals of those who died. Their first competitive game back was against Everton in the league at Goodison. It was unbelievably fitting. Before the match, a group of Liverpool fans walked around the pitch and stood in front of Gwladys Street with a banner that said 'LFC Fans Thank EFC Fans'. There was another banner in the old Park End were LFC fans were, thanking us.


Everton were the first club in the country to take down their fences on the terraces, as shown in the above game.

Everton have had constant involvement in the Hillsborough Justice campaign over the years. Our chairman spoke at the last memorial service. Our manager will speak at the next one in a few weeks time. Both were requested to do so by the Hillsborough Justice campaign members and Liverpool themselves.

It's not just Liverpool fans who were being attacked. When the rest of the country are using phrases such as 'Murdering Scouse Scum' - guess what? Most Everton fans are scousers too! The attack on the city of Liverpool - 'Pity City' - guess what? Most of us are from that city! The fact that it was the POLICE that caused this disaster, couple with a GOVERNMENT that covered it up, made it even more of an attack on the city. Please put your petty bitterness to one side. We are all on the SAME SIDE when it comes to Hillsborough.
So please - educate yourself. Don't come out with ridiculous nonsense phrases like 'It's nothing to do with us'. We share the same city with them, and a lot of Evertonians lost friends in that disaster - including the one Evertonian who LOST HIS OWN BROTHER. Of course it is to do with us, and always will be."
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Unfortunately weve got our share of hard of thinking types on here marra.
 
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I said it yesterday, and Big Dunc has said it again today.

Everton have always been shoulder square with LFC on Hillsborough. Not just in the last few years, but for 25. It happened to be a football disaster, but it would be exactly the same if the establishment covered up some other issue, and then proceeded to blacken the name every one associated with the city.

This being the same government that set miner against miner, and a police force that called in a favour for their role in that dispute. Something more than a few on here would probably resonate with.

Pretty much every Hillsborough anniversary or remembrance event has been attended by not just Evertonians, but also representatives from the club.

It is/was a hugely more wide spread issue than a lot of outsiders realise.
 
Clatts said:
I saw a programme about Hitler on BBC4 recently - there was no distancing. Does that mean they support his views?
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No, for the reason that the Royal Family have German heritage and a certain member(s) "allegedly" supported the nazi's (see: The Kings Speech so I don't get banned for f***ing libel again) and Kay Burley and Sky News by their very nature enjoy licking the balls of the establishment.
 
Oh, and one other thing. Martinez speech was ace. BUT, the standing ovation he got at Anfield before he said a word was for Everton, not him.

It could have been me doing it, and the same would have happened.
 
not spavin said:
They were.

All they did is enter the ground and follow the police's directions. It's all in the report.
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Every time this comes up, someone pipes up blaming the fans. Then they wheel out Heysel.
Big Dunc said:
Kenwright did it last year, people outside merseyside assume Hillsborough is an LFC tragedy and whilst it was it was also a tragedy of the city with many blues losing loved ones and friends that day, add to that we played the other semi final that day it was the flip of a coin that could of seen us go there in Livepool's place. In response to a lad on GOT a while back questioning why Everton are building a permanent Hillsborough memorial at Goodison one of the posters on there made this brilliant reply to him which I'll share with you this may make it easier for you to understand why the two clubs unite when it comes to the tragedy:

"It had NOTHING to do with us' - sorry, that is utterly embarrassing, shameful, ridiculously bitter nonsense.

First of all, the idea behind this memorial has come from AN EVERTON FAN who lost his Liverpool supporting brother at Hillsborough.

Secondly, 'nothing to do with us'? Really? How old are you? We played in the other semi final that day. It was a flip of a coin, the balls in the FA draw bag that saw us play Norwich at Villa Park and Liverpool play Forest at Hillsborough. I was at Villa Park. We won the game, but it was utterly horrible coming home. Walking back to the car, I saw Everton fans extremely worried, frantically trying to get word to see if any of their mates/family who had gone to the other match were hurt. No one had a mobile phone then. Communication was hard, beyond queuing for the phone box and hoping you had sufficient change. And then some luck in getting through to someone who knew what was going on. I remember the 10 minute walk back to the car, parked on some minty industrial estate car park near the ground like it was yesterday. I heard radio reports from nearby cars - 15 dead, 25 dead, 35 dead. We had the radio on driving home, but I think we turned it off in the end, it was too upsetting. I think I cried at one point - I was only 10, but old enough to know this was a big deal. The following day, the enormity of everything began to sink in. People thought the Cup Final was going to be cancelled, but nobody truly cared.

The following Saturday, April 22, I went to Anfield with my mum, my brother and my nan, and we laid flowers on the pitch. I had never been to Anfield before. The ENTIRE PITCH was covered in flowers. I have never seen a scene like it since and it will live with me until the day I die. There were Everton scarves and flags everywhere, together with Liverpool scarves and flags. Liverpool didn't play for 3 weeks, their players simply couldn't stomach it, after the shock, the mourning and attending all of the funerals of those who died. Their first competitive game back was against Everton in the league at Goodison. It was unbelievably fitting. Before the match, a group of Liverpool fans walked around the pitch and stood in front of Gwladys Street with a banner that said 'LFC Fans Thank EFC Fans'. There was another banner in the old Park End were LFC fans were, thanking us.


Everton were the first club in the country to take down their fences on the terraces, as shown in the above game.

Everton have had constant involvement in the Hillsborough Justice campaign over the years. Our chairman spoke at the last memorial service. Our manager will speak at the next one in a few weeks time. Both were requested to do so by the Hillsborough Justice campaign members and Liverpool themselves.

It's not just Liverpool fans who were being attacked. When the rest of the country are using phrases such as 'Murdering Scouse Scum' - guess what? Most Everton fans are scousers too! The attack on the city of Liverpool - 'Pity City' - guess what? Most of us are from that city! The fact that it was the POLICE that caused this disaster, couple with a GOVERNMENT that covered it up, made it even more of an attack on the city. Please put your petty bitterness to one side. We are all on the SAME SIDE when it comes to Hillsborough.
So please - educate yourself. Don't come out with ridiculous nonsense phrases like 'It's nothing to do with us'. We share the same city with them, and a lot of Evertonians lost friends in that disaster - including the one Evertonian who LOST HIS OWN BROTHER. Of course it is to do with us, and always will be."
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Well said mate.
 
Big Dunc said:
Kenwright did it last year, people outside merseyside assume Hillsborough is an LFC tragedy and whilst it was it was also a tragedy of the city with many blues losing loved ones and friends that day, add to that we played the other semi final that day it was the flip of a coin that could of seen us go there in Livepool's place. In response to a lad on GOT a while back questioning why Everton are building a permanent Hillsborough memorial at Goodison one of the posters on there made this brilliant reply to him which I'll share with you this may make it easier for you to understand why the two clubs unite when it comes to the tragedy:

"It had NOTHING to do with us' - sorry, that is utterly embarrassing, shameful, ridiculously bitter nonsense.

First of all, the idea behind this memorial has come from AN EVERTON FAN who lost his Liverpool supporting brother at Hillsborough.

Secondly, 'nothing to do with us'? Really? How old are you? We played in the other semi final that day. It was a flip of a coin, the balls in the FA draw bag that saw us play Norwich at Villa Park and Liverpool play Forest at Hillsborough. I was at Villa Park. We won the game, but it was utterly horrible coming home. Walking back to the car, I saw Everton fans extremely worried, frantically trying to get word to see if any of their mates/family who had gone to the other match were hurt. No one had a mobile phone then. Communication was hard, beyond queuing for the phone box and hoping you had sufficient change. And then some luck in getting through to someone who knew what was going on. I remember the 10 minute walk back to the car, parked on some minty industrial estate car park near the ground like it was yesterday. I heard radio reports from nearby cars - 15 dead, 25 dead, 35 dead. We had the radio on driving home, but I think we turned it off in the end, it was too upsetting. I think I cried at one point - I was only 10, but old enough to know this was a big deal. The following day, the enormity of everything began to sink in. People thought the Cup Final was going to be cancelled, but nobody truly cared.

The following Saturday, April 22, I went to Anfield with my mum, my brother and my nan, and we laid flowers on the pitch. I had never been to Anfield before. The ENTIRE PITCH was covered in flowers. I have never seen a scene like it since and it will live with me until the day I die. There were Everton scarves and flags everywhere, together with Liverpool scarves and flags. Liverpool didn't play for 3 weeks, their players simply couldn't stomach it, after the shock, the mourning and attending all of the funerals of those who died. Their first competitive game back was against Everton in the league at Goodison. It was unbelievably fitting. Before the match, a group of Liverpool fans walked around the pitch and stood in front of Gwladys Street with a banner that said 'LFC Fans Thank EFC Fans'. There was another banner in the old Park End were LFC fans were, thanking us.


Everton were the first club in the country to take down their fences on the terraces, as shown in the above game.

Everton have had constant involvement in the Hillsborough Justice campaign over the years. Our chairman spoke at the last memorial service. Our manager will speak at the next one in a few weeks time. Both were requested to do so by the Hillsborough Justice campaign members and Liverpool themselves.

It's not just Liverpool fans who were being attacked. When the rest of the country are using phrases such as 'Murdering Scouse Scum' - guess what? Most Everton fans are scousers too! The attack on the city of Liverpool - 'Pity City' - guess what? Most of us are from that city! The fact that it was the POLICE that caused this disaster, couple with a GOVERNMENT that covered it up, made it even more of an attack on the city. Please put your petty bitterness to one side. We are all on the SAME SIDE when it comes to Hillsborough.
So please - educate yourself. Don't come out with ridiculous nonsense phrases like 'It's nothing to do with us'. We share the same city with them, and a lot of Evertonians lost friends in that disaster - including the one Evertonian who LOST HIS OWN BROTHER. Of course it is to do with us, and always will be."
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One of the best posts I've read on here.
 
chriswallace85 said:
They've only had bad grief 'til now then?
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You know what I mean. Take footie out of the equation for a moment. 96 people died.

They were then blamed for it.

The blame was then covered up. For 25 years.

Justice might now be seen. How they died, why they died, and who, if anyone, was to blame.
 
Roydo said:
You know what I mean. Take footie out of the equation for a moment. 96 people died.

They were then blamed for it.

The blame was then covered up. For 25 years.

Justice might now be seen. How they died, why they died, and who, if anyone, was to blame.
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I really don't. And football doesn't have much to do with it apart from it being a match.

We know all this. The question is what is 'justice'? What exactly do they hope will be achieved?

Hillsborough was a shit situation and the culmination of a number of factors, and that was established donkeys years ago. Measures have been taken to ensure it doesn't happen again. Many people would even like these measures to be relaxed.
 
It bugs me how standing at football matches was besmirched by this awful incident that had nothing to do with standing itself
 
Geronimo said:
Absolutely.

But don't think the supporters were blameless either.
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I think we can all be pretty sure that all of those who died that day were completely blameless. They were at the front, crushed because they were there early.

The crush was caused I believe by the Police opening the gates to relieve pressure outside the ground. Insanely this was a common policing approach at very big games in those days.

As to why the police HAD to open the gates, if there were any supporters there without tickets who may have been deliberately responsible for any of the pressure that might have influenced the decision to open, that has to be for them to know and share with their conscience and God.

But nothing, nothing at all , can ever excuse the manipulation of evidence and cover up by the police. The dead were innocent. Thepolice will have known this then just as we do now.
 
chriswallace85 said:
I really don't. And football doesn't have much to do with it apart from it being a match.

We know all this. The question is what is 'justice'? What exactly do they hope will be achieved?

Hillsborough was a shit situation and the culmination of a number of factors, and that was established donkeys years ago. Measures have been taken to ensure it doesn't happen again. Many people would even like these measures to be relaxed.
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Because they have not had justice. They were blamed for their own deaths for gods sake. Kids mostly.

The original inquests were a sham/cover up/collusion, take your pick. Now the real reasons of death will be investigated in a new inquest, just opened, after 25 years of campaigning for it.

If your brother violently died, witnesses said one thing, the police said another, and the original coroner just took what the police said, concluded that it was pretty much your brothers mates fault, what would you do? Just accept it?

Jeez.
 
Icarebecauseyoudo said:
It bugs me how standing at football matches was besmirched by this awful incident that had nothing to do with standing itself
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But it did have to do with standing. People can squeeze onto terraces in a way they just cannot squeeze into seats. It is not the standing that causes the problems mind, but the overcrowding it used to allow. I was at Hillsborough as a schoolboy for the Semi in 1973. I ended up thirty yards at least from my starting point near the back after the first goal. Anything could have happened.
 
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