Restaurants

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DoctorMick said:
We’re opening up at a similar stage to other European countries aren’t we? Have they had issues when reopening bars and restaurants?
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The likes of Spain, Italy a nd others, their climate allows for eating and drinking outside. It's their culture to do that. We on the other hand will mostly be inside the pubs and restaurants. I just think it's inevitable that it will bring on a second wave.
 


ontap said:
The likes of Spain, Italy a nd others, their climate allows for eating and drinking outside. It's their culture to do that. We on the other hand will mostly be inside the pubs and restaurants. I just think it's inevitable that it will bring on a second wave.
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As long as bars and restaurants are taking appropriate steps it shouldn’t be a problem. From what I’ve seen a number of places aren’t so hopefully local environmental health departments will be on their toes. It also relies on people being sensible which most people assume won’t happen. I reckon there will be a rush this weekend then it’ll die down and pubs will be well below their new capacities.
 
DoctorMick said:
As long as bars and restaurants are taking appropriate steps it shouldn’t be a problem. From what I’ve seen a number of places aren’t so hopefully local environmental health departments will be on their toes. It also relies on people being sensible which most people assume won’t happen. I reckon there will be a rush this weekend then it’ll die down and pubs will be well below their new capacities.
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I really hope this is the outcome. Good to hear env health are involved
 
Curlyteeth said:
I really hope this is the outcome. Good to hear env health are involved
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I know a couple of lads who run/own pubs - they've both had phone calls from the police asking if they're opening and, if they are, to be sure that they have all of the necessary precautions in place because they will be visited and checked. Anywhere not complying with the new regulations will be told to close immediately.

Neither of them are opening this weekend - both are giving it another few weeks/a month to see how it all pans out.
 
Jap Stammer said:
I know a couple of lads who run/own pubs - they've both had phone calls from the police asking if they're opening and, if they are, to be sure that they have all of the necessary precautions in place because they will be visited and checked. Anywhere not complying with the new regulations will be told to close immediately.

Neither of them are opening this weekend - both are giving it another few weeks/a month to see how it all pans out.
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Why didnt they open on say a tuesday ffs rather than likely the busiestday of the week.
 
SPUFF said:
Why didnt they open on say a tuesday ffs rather than likely the busiestday of the week.
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To be fair, there's so many people not at work at the minute - furlough and WFH - that I don't think it would have made that much difference. Every day just blends into he other at the minute.

Those actually at work might also have just taken the day off - maybe they were thinking of the impact that would have on businesses still struggling to get going again?

Who knows?
 
Some thoughts on the risks of covid transmission in a restaurant:

Firstly, the number of infected people in the community was estimated by the ONS at 1 in 2200 at the last testing survey published 2 July (see Coronavirus (COVID-19) Infection Survey pilot - Office for National Statistics ) and covering the period up to 27 June. With any luck, the numbers are lower now, but let's go with 1 in 2000.

If a restaurant has 200 customers a day, then on average an infected person will walk in through the door once every 10 days.

There is a risk of that infected person passing it on, both to his fellow customers and the staff. There is going to be some reasonably close contact with his own party, but they will usually be family and friends he is already mixing with. If they are satisfied that his conduct so far has kept him away from the virus, then that to my mind is an acceptable risk.

As far as the waiting staff are concerned, if you think about a restaurant experience then I think it would be reasonably simple to keep a a fair distance away. The staff can greet the guest from a couple of yards away and direct them to a table. Disposable menus on the table, they can order drinks and food whilst the waiter stands a bit further away than normal. Everyone will understand.

The food and drinks can be brought and placed on the table without fuss and in a short space of time. The guest can turn away for a second or two if they like. I have heard of some places who leave the food and drinks on a table or tray nearby and guests pick them up. Similarly, when plates or glasses are collected the guest can turn away for a second or put the plates nearby.

A bill can be picked up and card payment made in the way we have become accustomed to in supermarkets.

All in all, I think the risk is small and can be managed reasonably safely. We have to remember what the risks are and take a view.
Some further thoughts - it seems to be generally accepted that an infected person was, on average, infecting 3 people in the days when we were acting normally. On that basis, the virus soon spreads widely. At the same time, if you infect only 3 people over a few days whilst not changing your behaviour, it seems to me that it takes something to pass it on, otherwise the infection rate would be much higher and we would have been infecting passers by. So a few seconds in the company of somebody doesn't seem enough to pass on the infection.
Some further thoughts - it seems to be generally accepted that an infected person was, on average, infecting 3 people in the days when we were acting normally. On that basis, the virus soon spreads widely. At the same time, if you infect only 3 people over a few days whilst not changing your behaviour, it seems to me that it takes something to pass it on, otherwise the infection rate would be much higher and we would have been infecting passers by. So a few seconds in the company of somebody doesn't seem enough to pass on the infection.
 
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Simple Simon said:
Some thoughts on the risks of covid transmission in a restaurant:

Firstly, the number of infected people in the community was estimated by the ONS at 1 in 2200 at the last testing survey published 2 July (see Coronavirus (COVID-19) Infection Survey pilot - Office for National Statistics ) and covering the period up to 27 June. With any luck, the numbers are lower now, but let's go with 1 in 2000.

If a restaurant has 200 customers a day, then on average an infected person will walk in through the door once every 10 days.

There is a risk of that infected person passing it on, both to his fellow customers and the staff. There is going to be some reasonably close contact with his own party, but they will usually be family and friends he is already mixing with. If they are satisfied that his conduct so far has kept him away from the virus, then that to my mind is an acceptable risk.

As far as the waiting staff are concerned, if you think about a restaurant experience then I think it would be reasonably simple to keep a a fair distance away. The staff can greet the guest from a couple of yards away and direct them to a table. Disposable menus on the table, they can order drinks and food whilst the waiter stands a bit further away than normal. Everyone will understand.

The food and drinks can be brought and placed on the table without fuss and in a short space of time. The guest can turn away for a second or two if they like. I have heard of some places who leave the food and drinks on a table or tray nearby and guests pick them up. Similarly, when plates or glasses are collected the guest can turn away for a second or put the plates nearby.

A bill can be picked up and card payment made in the way we have become accustomed to in supermarkets.

All in all, I think the risk is small and can be managed reasonably safely. We have to remember what the risks are and take a view.
Some further thoughts - it seems to be generally accepted that an infected person was, on average, infecting 3 people in the days when we were acting normally. On that basis, the virus soon spreads widely. At the same time, if you infect only 3 people over a few days whilst not changing your behaviour, it seems to me that it takes something to pass it on, otherwise the infection rate would be much higher and we would have been infecting passers by. So a few seconds in the company of somebody doesn't seem enough to pass on the infection.
Some further thoughts - it seems to be generally accepted that an infected person was, on average, infecting 3 people in the days when we were acting normally. On that basis, the virus soon spreads widely. At the same time, if you infect only 3 people over a few days whilst not changing your behaviour, it seems to me that it takes something to pass it on, otherwise the infection rate would be much higher and we would have been infecting passers by. So a few seconds in the company of somebody doesn't seem enough to pass on the infection.
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A very sensible post that.

Folk simply shouting "second spike" etc etc etc just dont consider all facts. For dozens to get it in bars at least 1 needs it and thats far less likely than weeks/months gone by. Many a bar over the weekend will have contained no carriers and as you say, even if it had many occupants couldnt possibly have caught it.

Keep overhearing some utter shitheads almost terrified to leave the house. Some perspective is needed massively or these loonies will live in fear forever (shielders obviously excluded).
 
Simple Simon said:
Some thoughts on the risks of covid transmission in a restaurant:

Firstly, the number of infected people in the community was estimated by the ONS at 1 in 2200 at the last testing survey published 2 July (see Coronavirus (COVID-19) Infection Survey pilot - Office for National Statistics ) and covering the period up to 27 June. With any luck, the numbers are lower now, but let's go with 1 in 2000.

If a restaurant has 200 customers a day, then on average an infected person will walk in through the door once every 10 days.

There is a risk of that infected person passing it on, both to his fellow customers and the staff. There is going to be some reasonably close contact with his own party, but they will usually be family and friends he is already mixing with. If they are satisfied that his conduct so far has kept him away from the virus, then that to my mind is an acceptable risk.

As far as the waiting staff are concerned, if you think about a restaurant experience then I think it would be reasonably simple to keep a a fair distance away. The staff can greet the guest from a couple of yards away and direct them to a table. Disposable menus on the table, they can order drinks and food whilst the waiter stands a bit further away than normal. Everyone will understand.

The food and drinks can be brought and placed on the table without fuss and in a short space of time. The guest can turn away for a second or two if they like. I have heard of some places who leave the food and drinks on a table or tray nearby and guests pick them up. Similarly, when plates or glasses are collected the guest can turn away for a second or put the plates nearby.

A bill can be picked up and card payment made in the way we have become accustomed to in supermarkets.

All in all, I think the risk is small and can be managed reasonably safely. We have to remember what the risks are and take a view.
Some further thoughts - it seems to be generally accepted that an infected person was, on average, infecting 3 people in the days when we were acting normally. On that basis, the virus soon spreads widely. At the same time, if you infect only 3 people over a few days whilst not changing your behaviour, it seems to me that it takes something to pass it on, otherwise the infection rate would be much higher and we would have been infecting passers by. So a few seconds in the company of somebody doesn't seem enough to pass on the infection.
Some further thoughts - it seems to be generally accepted that an infected person was, on average, infecting 3 people in the days when we were acting normally. On that basis, the virus soon spreads widely. At the same time, if you infect only 3 people over a few days whilst not changing your behaviour, it seems to me that it takes something to pass it on, otherwise the infection rate would be much higher and we would have been infecting passers by. So a few seconds in the company of somebody doesn't seem enough to pass on the infection.
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That’s not how it works though.

If you’re in close contact with someone then you’re also in close contact with anyone else they’ve been in close contact with. Saying that 1 in 2000 have it doesn’t mean you have to be in close contact with 2000 people to catch it. If I’ve been in close contact with 10 people and you’ve been in close contact with 10 people then we meet up, that’s 20 people straight away. If all 200 people in the pub/restaurant have been in contact with 10 people then that’s 2000 people. So there’s you’re 1 in 2000 gone straight away.
 
West_Winger said:
That’s not how it works though.

If you’re in close contact with someone then you’re also in close contact with anyone else they’ve been in close contact with. Saying that 1 in 2000 have it doesn’t mean you have to be in close contact with 2000 people to catch it. If I’ve been in close contact with 10 people and you’ve been in close contact with 10 people then we meet up, that’s 20 people straight away. If all 200 people in the pub/restaurant have been in contact with 10 people then that’s 2000 people. So there’s you’re 1 in 2000 gone straight away.
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Too many 'ifs' in there to justify shutting society down forever.
 
West_Winger said:
That’s not how it works though.

If you’re in close contact with someone then you’re also in close contact with anyone else they’ve been in close contact with. Saying that 1 in 2000 have it doesn’t mean you have to be in close contact with 2000 people to catch it. If I’ve been in close contact with 10 people and you’ve been in close contact with 10 people then we meet up, that’s 20 people straight away. If all 200 people in the pub/restaurant have been in contact with 10 people then that’s 2000 people. So there’s you’re 1 in 2000 gone straight away.
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That is how it works. For a transmission to happen, somebody has to be carrying the virus. For you to be infected, you need to be close to that person. The way you put it, being close to someone who was close to someone who has the virus puts you at risk. That only applies if they pass it on to everybody who ever came near. The fact is, they don't, otherwise we would simply all have it within a couple of days.

If the prevalence in the general population at any one time is 1 in 2000, then the chance of any one individual being a carrier is just that. If there are 200 people in a place at one time then yes, it's a 1 in 10 chance someone in there is a carrier. But normally you don't come into close contact with everybody in a venue.

Like I say, we need to make an assessment of the risk. Most of us are pretty bad at doing so. On balance, for an individual, the risk is low. On a community level it's probably more of a risk. On balance my own view is that the risk of transmission on each visit is low enough to justify opening. There will still most probably be some transmission at some restaurants somewhere.
 
Another thought. The 1 in 2000 applies to the people you meet. It doesn't include the people you and everybody else in the restaurant have met ( which sounds like how you put it - forgive me if I have misunderstood you).
 
West_Winger said:
That’s not how it works though.

If you’re in close contact with someone then you’re also in close contact with anyone else they’ve been in close contact with. Saying that 1 in 2000 have it doesn’t mean you have to be in close contact with 2000 people to catch it. If I’ve been in close contact with 10 people and you’ve been in close contact with 10 people then we meet up, that’s 20 people straight away. If all 200 people in the pub/restaurant have been in contact with 10 people then that’s 2000 people. So there’s you’re 1 in 2000 gone straight away.
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But that assumes everyone who comes into contact with someone with the virus then becomes a carrier and then can pass is on immediately which simply isn’t true. There is obviously an element of surface transmission which is why everyone is washing and sanitising their hands to the point that they’re more likely to die of cracked skin between their fingers! If everyone maintains a high level of hygiene (which bars and restaurants are hopefully going to be hot on) most transmission will be air borne so you’re only likely to infect people within your own party and then they’re unlikely to be able to transmit the virus immediately.
 
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