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Relegation: The silver lining

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bagpuss
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Bagpuss

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Always a glass half full kind of guy I have been having a think about the positives of this relegation.

There is only one.

For years we have been dogged with shit recruitment that has had the knock on effect of managers having to buy bang average (worse than average) journeymen "Premier league" players hoping to mould them into some kind of team that will win enough games to stay up.

For me the seeds of this debacle were set when we signed every man and his dog on top dollar to get out of the Championship under Keane. To get those players they were offered big money and long contracts (them up the road should take note).......

We took years and years to get many of them off the books which then meant new signings were also impacted in terms of fees and wages available.

This relegation will finally give us an opportunity to clear the decks and to build the club from the bottom upwards. Re-evaluate everything from the Academy through the reserves (which always seem to perform to a high standard) and then how that transition continues into the first team which is where the whole thing seems to go shit shaped.

As fans I think we need to be patient, what would be a disaster is to get rid of the dross and because of fans impatience we then end up recreating the same scenario again buying sticking plasters to try and stem the blood flow of a severed artery.

One of the biggest issues is defining our identity as a club, that has been lost and if Im honest we havent had an identity since the Keane era and Reid before that.

We need to decide what kind of club we want to be; Southampton is often held up there as a sustainable, in fact desirable model and its hard to argue with that so what makes Southampton able to develop and sign player after player, get the best out of them and then sell them on for big money without actually impacting on performances.

With the facilities we have both in terms of a fan base, an incredible stadium, a brilliant academy facility and a support most of Europe would die to emulate then everything is in place for the right person to build a club we can all be proud of.

Now the fly in the ointment. Can any of this happen under the stewardship of Moyes and Short? I would love it to happen, I would love the stability of a long term owner and a manager who creates an Everton style identity and legacy. Im just not sure Short has the desire to make it happen anymore even if he cant sell and is Moyes really the inspirational character that has the desire and drive to create another Everton? I actually dont think we will have to wait long to find out tbh as Short will not be able to sell while we are in the Championship without taking a huge financial hit and while he is in charge I dont think there is the will to pay off a very expensive 4 year contract.

The decision as fans for us is do we back Moyes knowing he is clearly going nowhere and give ourselves a chance of rebuilding or create a poisonous environment in an attempt to get rid of him but one that will also damage our chances of getting promoted. I know what we should do and what is the sensible option but at the same time Moyes simply does nothing to inspire me to think he can succeed.

Sorry for the war and peace but at some point we have to start looking beyond this debacle of a season.
 

Bagpuss said:
Always a glass half full kind of guy I have been having a think about the positives of this relegation.

There is only one.

For years we have been dogged with shit recruitment that has had the knock on effect of managers having to buy bang average (worse than average) journeymen "Premier league" players hoping to mould them into some kind of team that will win enough games to stay up.

For me the seeds of this debacle were set when we signed every man and his dog on top dollar to get out of the Championship under Keane. To get those players they were offered big money and long contracts (them up the road should take note).......

We took years and years to get many of them off the books which then meant new signings were also impacted in terms of fees and wages available.

This relegation will finally give us an opportunity to clear the decks and to build the club from the bottom upwards. Re-evaluate everything from the Academy through the reserves (which always seem to perform to a high standard) and then how that transition continues into the first team which is where the whole thing seems to go shit shaped.

As fans I think we need to be patient, what would be a disaster is to get rid of the dross and because of fans impatience we then end up recreating the same scenario again buying sticking plasters to try and stem the blood flow of a severed artery.

One of the biggest issues is defining our identity as a club, that has been lost and if Im honest we havent had an identity since the Keane era and Reid before that.

We need to decide what kind of club we want to be; Southampton is often held up there as a sustainable, in fact desirable model and its hard to argue with that so what makes Southampton able to develop and sign player after player, get the best out of them and then sell them on for big money without actually impacting on performances.

With the facilities we have both in terms of a fan base, an incredible stadium, a brilliant academy facility and a support most of Europe would die to emulate then everything is in place for the right person to build a club we can all be proud of.

Now the fly in the ointment. Can any of this happen under the stewardship of Moyes and Short? I would love it to happen, I would love the stability of a long term owner and a manager who creates an Everton style identity and legacy. Im just not sure Short has the desire to make it happen anymore even if he cant sell and is Moyes really the inspirational character that has the desire and drive to create another Everton? I actually dont think we will have to wait long to find out tbh as Short will not be able to sell while we are in the Championship without taking a huge financial hit and while he is in charge I dont think there is the will to pay off a very expensive 4 year contract.

The decision as fans for us is do we back Moyes knowing he is clearly going nowhere and give ourselves a chance of rebuilding or create a poisonous environment in an attempt to get rid of him but one that will also damage our chances of getting promoted. I know what we should do and what is the sensible option but at the same time Moyes simply does nothing to inspire me to think he can succeed.

Sorry for the war and peace but at some point we have to start looking beyond this debacle of a season.
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Good post and I agree with most of it.
 
Deggsy said:
Relegation is not a good thing don't care what anyone says, we go down we want to come back up, so if we aspire to be a PL club i'd prefer to do any rebuilding in the PL
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Im just not sure that is possible, its what we have been trying to do for years and failed miserably due to the dross we have on the books. Rebuilds need a core of quality Prem players, we have neither the funds for signings or the money for wages.
 
I'm not looking forward to the JCL's jumping on the promotion band wagon assuming we reach such heady heights , fuckers didn't bother their arses this season when the chips were down , watch them flock back in their thousands.
 
Bagpuss said:
We took years and years to get many of them off the books which then meant new signings were also impacted in terms of fees and wages available.

This relegation will finally give us an opportunity to clear the decks and to build the club from the bottom upwards. Re-evaluate everything from the Academy through the reserves (which always seem to perform to a high standard) and then how that transition continues into the first team which is where the whole thing seems to go shit shaped.

As fans I think we need to be patient, what would be a disaster is to get rid of the dross and because of fans impatience we then end up recreating the same scenario again buying sticking plasters to try and stem the blood flow of a severed artery.
Click to expand...

There's your problem. Somewhere in our hierarchy, the idea of changing anything seems to get ignored; as if 90% of what happens to us is luck based & we just need people in positions, trialing out stock lines until something changes in our fortunes.
 
Bagpuss said:
Always a glass half full kind of guy I have been having a think about the positives of this relegation.

There is only one.

For years we have been dogged with shit recruitment that has had the knock on effect of managers having to buy bang average (worse than average) journeymen "Premier league" players hoping to mould them into some kind of team that will win enough games to stay up.

For me the seeds of this debacle were set when we signed every man and his dog on top dollar to get out of the Championship under Keane. To get those players they were offered big money and long contracts (them up the road should take note).......

We took years and years to get many of them off the books which then meant new signings were also impacted in terms of fees and wages available.

This relegation will finally give us an opportunity to clear the decks and to build the club from the bottom upwards. Re-evaluate everything from the Academy through the reserves (which always seem to perform to a high standard) and then how that transition continues into the first team which is where the whole thing seems to go shit shaped.

As fans I think we need to be patient, what would be a disaster is to get rid of the dross and because of fans impatience we then end up recreating the same scenario again buying sticking plasters to try and stem the blood flow of a severed artery.

One of the biggest issues is defining our identity as a club, that has been lost and if Im honest we havent had an identity since the Keane era and Reid before that.

We need to decide what kind of club we want to be; Southampton is often held up there as a sustainable, in fact desirable model and its hard to argue with that so what makes Southampton able to develop and sign player after player, get the best out of them and then sell them on for big money without actually impacting on performances.

With the facilities we have both in terms of a fan base, an incredible stadium, a brilliant academy facility and a support most of Europe would die to emulate then everything is in place for the right person to build a club we can all be proud of.

Now the fly in the ointment. Can any of this happen under the stewardship of Moyes and Short? I would love it to happen, I would love the stability of a long term owner and a manager who creates an Everton style identity and legacy. Im just not sure Short has the desire to make it happen anymore even if he cant sell and is Moyes really the inspirational character that has the desire and drive to create another Everton? I actually dont think we will have to wait long to find out tbh as Short will not be able to sell while we are in the Championship without taking a huge financial hit and while he is in charge I dont think there is the will to pay off a very expensive 4 year contract.

The decision as fans for us is do we back Moyes knowing he is clearly going nowhere and give ourselves a chance of rebuilding or create a poisonous environment in an attempt to get rid of him but one that will also damage our chances of getting promoted. I know what we should do and what is the sensible option but at the same time Moyes simply does nothing to inspire me to think he can succeed.

Sorry for the war and peace but at some point we have to start looking beyond this debacle of a season.
Click to expand...
Good post - well thought out - I agree.
 
Bagpuss said:
Always a glass half full kind of guy I have been having a think about the positives of this relegation.

There is only one.

For years we have been dogged with shit recruitment that has had the knock on effect of managers having to buy bang average (worse than average) journeymen "Premier league" players hoping to mould them into some kind of team that will win enough games to stay up.

For me the seeds of this debacle were set when we signed every man and his dog on top dollar to get out of the Championship under Keane. To get those players they were offered big money and long contracts (them up the road should take note).......

We took years and years to get many of them off the books which then meant new signings were also impacted in terms of fees and wages available.

This relegation will finally give us an opportunity to clear the decks and to build the club from the bottom upwards. Re-evaluate everything from the Academy through the reserves (which always seem to perform to a high standard) and then how that transition continues into the first team which is where the whole thing seems to go shit shaped.

As fans I think we need to be patient, what would be a disaster is to get rid of the dross and because of fans impatience we then end up recreating the same scenario again buying sticking plasters to try and stem the blood flow of a severed artery.

One of the biggest issues is defining our identity as a club, that has been lost and if Im honest we havent had an identity since the Keane era and Reid before that.

We need to decide what kind of club we want to be; Southampton is often held up there as a sustainable, in fact desirable model and its hard to argue with that so what makes Southampton able to develop and sign player after player, get the best out of them and then sell them on for big money without actually impacting on performances.

With the facilities we have both in terms of a fan base, an incredible stadium, a brilliant academy facility and a support most of Europe would die to emulate then everything is in place for the right person to build a club we can all be proud of.

Now the fly in the ointment. Can any of this happen under the stewardship of Moyes and Short? I would love it to happen, I would love the stability of a long term owner and a manager who creates an Everton style identity and legacy. Im just not sure Short has the desire to make it happen anymore even if he cant sell and is Moyes really the inspirational character that has the desire and drive to create another Everton? I actually dont think we will have to wait long to find out tbh as Short will not be able to sell while we are in the Championship without taking a huge financial hit and while he is in charge I dont think there is the will to pay off a very expensive 4 year contract.

The decision as fans for us is do we back Moyes knowing he is clearly going nowhere and give ourselves a chance of rebuilding or create a poisonous environment in an attempt to get rid of him but one that will also damage our chances of getting promoted. I know what we should do and what is the sensible option but at the same time Moyes simply does nothing to inspire me to think he can succeed.

Sorry for the war and peace but at some point we have to start looking beyond this debacle of a season.
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Utter bollix

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It's a nice idea, but some of the things you speak of may not reap rewards for years, and everything, everything, you talk about costs money, even if just at the beginning.

Getting rid of player on contracts costs money, replacing them costs money, funding your academy costs money.

I understand wanting to be positive, but until you know the lay of the land in terms of ownership, management, playing staff I'd be more cautous.
 
The Fish said:
It's a nice idea, but some of the things you speak of may not reap rewards for years, and everything, everything, you talk about costs money, even if just at the beginning.

Getting rid of player on contracts costs money, replacing them costs money, funding your academy costs money.

I understand wanting to be positive, but until you know the lay of the land in terms of ownership, management, playing staff I'd be more cautous.
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Expert on the championship, like?
 
The Situation said:
There is no silver lining and the people who think we will be winning and partying at away grounds every week are in for a rude f***ing awakening.

That's with any manager given our current state.

The consequences of Moyes leading us into next season, however, could be devastating.
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Exacamundo

We might do a Coventry or even worse

The Fish said:
Been down here twice. Bounced back immediately twice. Reckon I'm fairly clued up, aye :lol:
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We won't with Moyes
 
hank williams said:
We won't with Moyes
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Dunno. For all I know he's got 12 players lined up to fire you to the title. Free transfers, loan deals and players bought with the money from departing players. Flair doesn't get you an automatic spot, pragmatism and solid back line does. That's why Brighton will probably win it this year and we'll go up in 2nd. Neither team plays expansively, tight at the back, efficient up front, and a player or two that's too good for the Championship.
 
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