Racism at Yorkshire CCC

[West_Winger]

Very difficult situation for Root though. Some of his close mates have been implicated here and he's very unlikely to throw them under the bus and I can understand that totally.

If he has the captaincy removed I'm not sure how he could remain in the England squad either. He would still be the best player and one of the leaders and I'm not sure how that's any different from actually being the captain.

Thing is that isn’t particularly good leadership if he ignores racism in the team and does nothing to publicly stamp it out. It’s weak.

 

[SAFC 83]

Thing is that isn’t particularly good leadership if he ignores racism in the team and does nothing to publicly stamp it out. It’s weak.

But he wasn't the leader at Yorkshire then, was he? He seemed a bit quiet and introverted from the outside anyway, maybe he didn't feel he was in the position to stand up to the leaders in the dressing room at the time and he doesn't want to throw his mate under the bus now. Maybe not right in some eyes but understandable imo.

 

[Comeback_Kenwyne]

Very difficult situation for Root though. Some of his close mates have been implicated here and he's very unlikely to throw them under the bus and I can understand that totally.

If he has the captaincy removed I'm not sure how he could remain in the England squad either. He would still be the best player and one of the leaders and I'm not sure how that's any different from actually being the captain.

Just representative isn't it. The captain represents the team off the pitch and us responsible for showing the values that we want in the game. I know they should all do that to an extent, but the captain is the crucial role here. I don't think he should be suspended as a player that would imo require evidence of actual racism. Though it will be tough. David Warner is on record as saying the reason he punched him before an Edgbaston Ashes test is that Root was putting a wig on back to front and doing racially insensitive impressions of Hashim Amla. Expect this to get a lot of airtime in Australia next few weeks.

He's in an awful position and i'd actually be advising him to resign for PR and personal reasons, as well a professional. They are going to crucify him over there.

Bottom line: showing to the millions of South Asian fans of the game in England that this message has been heard is way more important than the f***ing Ashes.

 

[Jack Torrance]

Just representative isn't it. The captain represents the team off the pitch and us responsible for showing the values that we want in the game. I know they should all do that to an extent, but the captain is the crucial role here. I don't think he should be suspended as a player that would imo require evidence of actual racism. Though it will be tough. David Warner is on record as saying the reason he punched him before an Edgbaston Ashes test is that Root was putting a wig on back to front and doing racially insensitive impressions of Hashim Amla. Expect this to get a lot of airtime in Australia next few weeks.

He's in an awful position and i'd actually be advising him to resign for PR and personal reasons, as well a professional. They are going to crucify him over there.

Bottom line: showing to the millions of South Asian fans of the game in England that this message has been heard is way more important than the f***ing Ashes.

All he said is that he couldn’t recall racism, can’t really say he’s lying. He was probably gonna step down as captain after the ashes anyway

 

[rentaghost]

All he said is that he couldn’t recall racism, can’t really say he’s lying. He was probably gonna step down as captain after the ashes anyway

At the very least how could he not be familiar with the term Kevin invented, used and shared by his roommate Gary Ballance?

 

[Comeback_Kenwyne]

All he said is that he couldn’t recall racism, can’t really say he’s lying. He was probably gonna step down as captain after the ashes anyway

You can juxtapose his statement with Rafiq's evidence though and draw your own conclusions. The rest of the world is, certainly.

And actually it's that statement that is the problem. And look, I know why he said it. It was a classic in "get out in front" crisis management PR. Bad PR advice in my (professional) opinion. But he took it and the consequences have been magnified. Magnified, because he can't do what needs to be done now, which is make a contrite statement, admitting he felt conflicted and powerless to do enough and he is sorry about that, that he is has changed and wants to see this become a watershed moment. Rafiq has said he is not a racist, a "good man". That's what a good man would do, because it's the leadership we need. Instead, he's gone to the Yorkshire school of plausible deniability PR - which isn't really plausible - and can't walk it back without outing himself as a liar. Awful advice. The best PR is substance. Be good, people will see it. Industry is a joke, built around not exposing this.

 

[SAFC2403]

It makes it all the more sickening when you know that at grass roots level, the club game wouldn't even have dreamed to behave remotely in this way.

Where I lived when I played club cricket there was (and to my knowledge still is) a healthy number of black and Asian players. There was certainly sledging, but it would be about a player's ability. Occasionally I'd get the 'fat bastard' insult and that was as far as personal abuse went.

The banter in the changing room would be about the usual lad stuff, who couldn't hold their drink last night, who tried and failed to chat someone up, etc. It sometimes stretched to how pisspoor England were, or how annoying good the Aussies were.

It never occurred to anyone to make fun of someone's skin colour, or make a sweeping statement about a ethnic minority's culture. It just wasn't like that. We were players, teammates, and all looked out for each other on and off the pitch.

All these years later, and after all the work gone into the grassroots game, we find out that the rotten core is at the very top. It feels almost sordid, playing and promoting a sport which at the upper echelons had been taking the piss out of all of us, by allowing racism to not only survive but prosper.

Watching Harrison refusing to give a straight answer to a yes or no question on institutional racism, I wanted to punch his face into a pulp. That's what he and his colleagues have done to our game. Unforgivable.

If they had a shred of decency, the ECB would stand down, the counties would put life bans in place for any person proven guilty of any allegation, and the game could reflect, rebuild, and take the game back into comprehensive schools in every town and village, regardless of any levels of urban social deprivation - that's where the beating heart of cricket is, not with the privileged few who until now could get away with treating the game with such disdain.

Cracking post - I've been involved with Cricket pretty much all my life(my dad played in the coast league in the 80's and 90's) and with Rafiqs statement I'm now more worried than ever the damage this whole episode could do to local cricket - participation is down year on year and parents could read this stuff and think "no way are my kids going there".

The pro game really couldn't care about grass roots but we could be hit hardest - if juniors don't get into the sport it will die at the local level.

 

[Silly Point]

Said a while back I thought the game at a local and youth level in Yorkshire was fucked. Think that may have been optimistic and it will have a profound effect across the country

 

[Comeback_Kenwyne]

Said a while back I thought the game at a local and youth level in Yorkshire was fucked. Think that may have been optimistic and it will have a profound effect across the country

If big shit doesn't happen fast, we will lose an entire generation of South Asian players. And many others who simply want to play a game that doesn't have a racist cloud hanging over it.

The contrast with the England football team is hard to avoid. Football or cricket won't be a hard choice for many parents I suspect, even easier than it already was.

 

[Willincity]

Said a while back I thought the game at a local and youth level in Yorkshire was fucked. Think that may have been optimistic and it will have a profound effect across the country

There will be a number of companies having a whistle blown against them soon.

Someone has shone a light on it at Yorkshire and now Yorkshire are having to deal with the consequences of a terrible culture for years. The enquiry now at Yorkshire is likely to give other people more belief that if they come forward then something might be done and it is also more likely they would be listened to.

Let's not forget that Rafiq first reported his concerns years before and was totally ignored - it's not like in 2020 he suddenly decided to complain about 12 years of treatment, he'd been complaining for years and as we are seeing Yorkshire stuck their heads in the sand and tried to ignore it and hope it went away.

 

[Cee Jay]

At least this thread seems to have moved on from last weeks " I've got it on good authority that he was a bit of a **at around the club"

 

[badger55]

Talking to a local umpire last night, believe he umpires in the Durham and North East league.
He says he has already received an e mail, he said from the ECB, to tell him to report ALL instances of "racist language" and "racist behaviour" that he witnesses in local games.

 

[Comeback_Kenwyne]

At least this thread seems to have moved on from last weeks " I've got it on good authority that he was a bit of a **at around the club"

Aye, there were a few, but by and large, I think this forum has had one of the SMB's better moments on this thread. People have been pretty clear, informed and had good values throughout.

Helps that this forum's resident race-baiter is currently banned. Probably a bit of partisan help too: no need to tell this forum about venality and incompetence at the top of the professional game, from the regulators especially. But still: we've been largely decent imo.

Think the resident Yorkies - the ones still posting, because they were vindicated, anyway - have made a huge contribution to getting us all across the situation.

There will be a number of companies having a whistle blown against them soon.

Someone has shone a light on it at Yorkshire and now Yorkshire are having to deal with the consequences of a terrible culture for years. The enquiry now at Yorkshire is likely to give other people more belief that if they come forward then something might be done and it is also more likely they would be listened to.

Let's not forget that Rafiq first reported his concerns years before and was totally ignored - it's not like in 2020 he suddenly decided to complain about 12 years of treatment, he'd been complaining for years and as we are seeing Yorkshire stuck their heads in the sand and tried to ignore it and hope it went away.

I want to believe this will be the start of something bigger, but it rarely is because, for all that you get some other people encouraged by Rafiq, being the lead whistleblower in a new context or company is really really hard - as his testimony shows.

Also, whilst I am in no way blind to the levels of racism in this country, I have to hope and believe - and I still do - that there will not be many institutions out there, in any sector, as racist to its rotten core as what we have seen from Yorkshire County Cricket Club. It is true and easy to say, this is everywhere. But I also think this is an extraordinarily bad and special case.

 

[sonson]

But he wasn't the leader at Yorkshire then, was he? He seemed a bit quiet and introverted from the outside anyway, maybe he didn't feel he was in the position to stand up to the leaders in the dressing room at the time and he doesn't want to throw his mate under the bus now. Maybe not right in some eyes but understandable imo.

He has been given multiple opportunities to do the right thing and he hasn't. He's chosen to side with the institution rather than support an abused player. As I said last week, if someone says they've experienced abuse, even if you didn't see it, you have a choice- you can stand by that person, and say you believe them and that they need to be listened to, or you can be one more person who chooses to side against them.

Although granted from this evidence that would appear to be the sort of leadership and loyalty Yorkshire has fostered. Protect your own.

 

[Jack Torrance]

At the very least how could he not be familiar with the term Kevin invented, used and shared by his roommate Gary Ballance?

Rafiq said everyone in the England dressing room knew about it.
Would a new England captain just be asked the same questions on the topic? Assume the next candidate would have played with Hales/Ballance

 

[SAFC 83]

He has been given multiple opportunities to do the right thing and he hasn't. He's chosen to side with the institution rather than support an abused player. As I said last week, if someone says they've experienced abuse, even if you didn't see it, you have a choice- you can stand by that person, and say you believe them and that they need to be listened to, or you can be one more person who chooses to side against them.

Although granted from this evidence that would appear to be the sort of leadership and loyalty Yorkshire has fostered. Protect your own.

He isn't choosing sides though, he's trying to walk a line in the middle.
If he says anything he probably feels he's being disloyal to his friends but he doesn't want to say Rafiq is in the wrong either. Who knows what he has said in private though.

I don't think any of us actually thought Root was a natural or good leader though. He is just the best player and seems to be a decent lad who's in very tough position. I don't think he should be forced out but the ashes will likely be his last series as captain what ever the result.

 

[rentaghost]

Rafiq said everyone in the England dressing room knew about it.
Would a new England captain just be asked the same questions on the topic? Assume the next candidate would have played with Hales/Ballance

Possibly. If their starting position was that they were aware of the term ‘Kevin’ and should have challenged it would be a better starting position than clearly lying and denying all knowledge. I’m undecided / unsure about what should happen re Root but things could get very difficult for him if the press push on the issue.

 

[sonson]

Also, whilst I am in no way blind to the levels of racism in this country, I have to hope and believe - and I still do - that there will not be many institutions out there, in any sector, as racist to its rotten core as what we have seen from Yorkshire County Cricket Club. It is true and easy to say, this is everywhere. But I also think this is an extraordinarily bad and special case.

I'm married to someone who is mixed race and is part of a large extended community of people who are black and people of colour as a result, and they're always very annoyed by this sort of thing.

There's nothing to be gained from hoping or thinking the country is less or more racist than it is. Because *whatever* level it is or isn't, its too much all the same. The country is institutionally and systemically racist. Black people and people of colour experience racism here all the time. It makes their lives hard and worse. They are telling us this all the time, however they can. The narrative of "it could be worse" or "its not as bad as x" is the one most used to shut their voices down and exhaust them. There's a very fine line between "I like to think we're better than this" and "it's worse everywhere else so why are you complaining".

Academically speaking some places might be worse than others, but people marginalised or abused in the workplace are marginalised or abused in the workplace. And the majority of black people and people of colour will tell you they are frequently marginalised or abused in their workplace, and that most white people don't have their back. Surveys done by Yougov and the TUC last year found 50% and 70% respectively said this.

It might comfort you to think Yorkshire is a particularly bad example, but those narratives don't serve the victims. Racism is racism. Somewhere that's 80% racist or somewhere that's 30% racist is going to be hellish for any person of colour or black person who encounters it.

 

[SAFC2403]

Talking to a local umpire last night, believe he umpires in the Durham and North East league.
He says he has already received an e mail, he said from the ECB, to tell him to report ALL instances of "racist language" and "racist behaviour" that he witnesses in local games.

Shouldn't need to be told imo. Whilst i've not heard or seen any in the games I've played in its up to everyone to do the right thing and if necessary pull people for it.

clubs and leagues need to be very firm about this as they wont want to be the next Yorkshire.

 

[smoker]

The moment in the Hales household yesterday when Mrs Hales found out why their dog was called Kevin

Think he lives on his own after his bird dumped him.