Physical Season Cards

[Hank Scorpio]

So you are saying the club has no choice.

Why move into a clearly more expensive digital system, new hardware, software etc which the club plainly didn't understand ( all this BS that it would only be NFC) and making it more difficult for a substantial section of their supporters ( sorry meant customers )to attend, when the previous system of just updating season cards worked fine.

Tbf, a lot of other clubs have moved digital as well. It’s does seem that within 5 years, all PL and championship clubs will be digital

 

[Zimba]

So you are saying the club has no choice.

Why move into a clearly more expensive digital system, new hardware, software etc which the club plainly didn't understand ( all this BS that it would only be NFC) and making it more difficult for a substantial section of their supporters ( sorry meant customers )to attend, when the previous system of just updating season cards worked fine.

Didn't really mention the system at all, it's a different discussion. It's more there's not many alternatives. There's not 20 companies ready to install turnstyle ticketing which also has the addition of seating plans as the market isn't there. It's not a monopoly by bullying, it's a monopoly because it makes no sense going anywhere near it.

I don't agree with digital only btw.

 

[threepenny bits]

Cards work, digital work with our turnstiles, why can’t supporters have the choice?
The debate on here is an us and them situation. Let’s not forgot we are all supporters of the same team.

 

[Fleagle]

So you are saying the club has no choice.

Why move into a clearly more expensive digital system, new hardware, software etc which the club plainly didn't understand ( all this BS that it would only be NFC) and making it more difficult for a substantial section of their supporters ( sorry meant customers )to attend, when the previous system of just updating season cards worked fine.

I’d challenge the presumption that it’s more expensive. The move to digital is happening everywhere, notably also in banking and retail, and at a pace that I generally don’t like, and I am sure it is entirely money driven. The biggest cost to most traditional consumer businesses is the people cost. The move to digital is about eliminating people from the system. It’s true with digital banking allowing you to shut your branches. It’s true with fully digital ticketing, just as the move to plastic cards was. Plastic cards did away with the need for having an operator at every turnstile. Fully digital delivery does away with the need to have people involved in the back office in physical delivery of physical tokens. It’s about saving money. It’s also generally true, not just true of SAFC, that if you can save enough, you’ll probably not care too much about the inconvenience it brings to customers.

 

[Boris Bear]

Conspiracy theory ?

You think the fact that competition authorities across the world - including the US, EU and UK are taking action against those seeking to monopolise markets is some sort of “conspiracy”?

Conspiracy against whom? The kindly billionaires cheerfully skinning you while you stand around and applaud?

In answer to the point made about the motive for TM interest in the SoL venue - the north east - population roughly 2.5 million - has arguably two mega venues that could put on the likes of Beyonce and Bruce Springsteen ie Sid James Park and the SoL

By handing over monopoly ticketing rights to the SoL to Ticketmaster the Chuckle Brothers handed over significant opportunities to earn monopoly rents

Do I trust the Chuckle Brothers to have negotiated a good deal for Sunderland and its supporters? A squadron of flying pigs has just passed my window

And so far as physical entry cards are concerned for matches we should be insisting they are a NO COST OPTION to anyone who wants one

And as soon as possible we should be dumping Ticketmaster

How were you involved in establishing DP laws? What’s a TRA?

 

[Zimba]

I’d challenge the presumption that it’s more expensive. The move to digital is happening everywhere, notably also in banking and retail, and at a pace that I generally don’t like, and I am sure it is entirely money driven. The biggest cost to most traditional consumer businesses is the people cost. The move to digital is about eliminating people from the system. It’s true with digital banking allowing you to shut your branches. It’s true with fully digital ticketing, just as the move to plastic cards was. Plastic cards did away with the need for having an operator at every turnstile. Fully digital delivery does away with the need to have people involved in the back office in physical delivery of physical tokens. It’s about saving money. It’s also generally true, not just true of SAFC, that if you can save enough, you’ll probably not care too much about the inconvenience it brings to customers.

Tbf I'd imagine it's more security based. With digital ticketing, you can create on the spot codes which are only usable then which eliminates all sort of reselling and fraud compared to physical tickets where it's fixed, ie if someone puts their ticket on Facebook you could make your own barcode and just walk in. It might not benefit Sunderland much, as you can freely get tickets, but for other clubs it's a massive problem. At the end of the day Ticketmaster aren't going to have 20 different systems for every clubs needs, it'll be one system or go elsewhere - which is limited.

The people in the ticket office probably won't have a clue about anything so will just parrot down what Ticketmaster say, even known it's clearly obvious they can do it, if they want.

 

[hank williams]

Cards work, digital work with our turnstiles, why can’t supporters have the choice?
The debate on here is an us and them situation. Let’s not forgot we are all supporters of the same team.

Entirely this should be given a choice

Not forced

 

[42]

Tbf, a lot of other clubs have moved digital as well. It’s does seem that within 5 years, all PL and championship clubs will be digital

And a lot of those that have are more open & honest about it, and make the process easier by just saying you can have a card if you want but it'll cost an extra tenner or whatever. If we went down that route, then there wouldn't be an issue as there'd be the choice. We're now a year into this & the club still haven't got a clue how it works, resulting in supporter getting messed about & pissed off with the whole thing.

 

[Boris Bear]

And a lot of those that have are more open & honest about it, and make the process easier by just saying you can have a card if you want but it'll cost an extra tenner or whatever. If we went down that route, then there wouldn't be an issue as there'd be the choice. We're now a year into this & the club still haven't got a clue how it works, resulting in supporter getting messed about & pissed off with the whole thing.

Has to be more than a tenner if they want to encourage people to go digital

 

[Hank Scorpio]

And a lot of those that have are more open & honest about it, and make the process easier by just saying you can have a card if you want but it'll cost an extra tenner or whatever. If we went down that route, then there wouldn't be an issue as there'd be the choice. We're now a year into this & the club still haven't got a clue how it works, resulting in supporter getting messed about & pissed off with the whole thing.

I don’t disagree mate - it’s been handled very poorly. They won’t have been better just saying plastic cards are being phased out and won’t be available for new SC holders, and will be totally gone by 25/26

 

[Fleagle]

Tbf I'd imagine it's more security based. With digital ticketing, you can create on the spot codes which are only usable then which eliminates all sort of reselling and fraud compared to physical tickets where it's fixed, ie if someone puts their ticket on Facebook you could make your own barcode and just walk in. It might not benefit Sunderland much, as you can freely get tickets, but for other clubs it's a massive problem. At the end of the day Ticketmaster aren't going to have 20 different systems for every clubs needs, it'll be one system or go elsewhere - which is limited.

The people in the ticket office probably won't have a clue about anything so will just parrot down what Ticketmaster say, even known it's clearly obvious they can do it, if they want.

That’s a very good point, and is presumably another reason why the club is reluctant to issue cards and would prefer them to die out sooner rather than later. You obviously can’t issue spot codes on a rolling modulation with a printed card that is meant to last nine months.

 

[42]

Has to be more than a tenner if they want to encourage people to go digital

If it's too much it becomes discriminatory

 

[Boris Bear]

If it's too much it becomes discriminatory

How so?

 

[42]

How so?

Lots of old people don't have smart phones. It's simply unfair, you're already wanting to hammer them an extra £150 every few years by forcing them to buy hardware the don't need for no other reason than to enter a stadium

 

[Boris Bear]

Lots of old people don't have smart phones. It's simply unfair, you're already wanting to hammer them an extra £150 every few years by forcing them to buy hardware the don't need for no other reason than to enter a stadium

It’s not so much that as they’ll have to get a smart phone when they replace their current phones (which don’t last forever)

 

[42]

It’s not so much that as they’ll have to get a smart phone when they replace their current phones (which don’t last forever)

You're assuming they have a phone in the first place My Dad has an old style Nokia he's had for last 15 years. He has it for emergencies & barely gets used. I'd wager it'll keep going longer than him. They don't 'have' to replace it with a smart phone at all.

If my dad's phone breaks he'll buy something like this

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/3100660?storeID=4470&istCompanyId=a74d8886-5df9-4baa-b776-166b3bf9111c&istFeedId=30f62ea9-9626-4cac-97c8-9ff3921f8558&istItemId=ltqxpqltp&istBid=t&&cmpid=GS001&_$ja=tsid:59157%7Cacid:804-627-9544%7Ccid:20269441415%7Cagid:%7Ctid:%7Ccrid:%7Cnw:x%7Crnd:12673297222812796571%7Cdvc:m%7Cadp:%7Cmt:%7Cloc:9046763&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=20269441415&utm_term=3100660&utm_content=shopping&utm_custom1=&utm_custom2=804-627-9544&GPDP=true&gad_source=1&gclsrc=ds

 

[Boris Bear]

You're assuming they have a phone in the first place My Dad has an old style Nokia he's had for last 15 years. He has it for emergencies & barely gets used. I'd wager it'll keep going longer than him. They don't 'have' to replace it with a smart phone at all.

Batteries don’t last forever. I could be indelicate about this and point out it’s a dwindling population of non smartphone users. 94% of the population use them.

By all means charge a fiver to over 70s and under 16s, but maybe £30+ to everyone else who just wants but doesn’t need a card.

Someone will come along and point out other demographics…that’s fine, let them be exceptions too, just not those who don’t have a real need…charge them £30+

 

[Fleagle]

If it's too much it becomes discriminatory

I believe it is discriminatory to apply any charge in relation to an alternative that is necessary because of a disability. But on the flipside of that, it is not discriminatory to apply whatever charge you want when it’s a matter of choice.

 

[hank williams]

You're assuming they have a phone in the first place My Dad has an old style Nokia he's had for last 15 years. He has it for emergencies & barely gets used. I'd wager it'll keep going longer than him. They don't 'have' to replace it with a smart phone at all.

If my dad's phone breaks he'll buy something like this

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/3100660?storeID=4470&istCompanyId=a74d8886-5df9-4baa-b776-166b3bf9111c&istFeedId=30f62ea9-9626-4cac-97c8-9ff3921f8558&istItemId=ltqxpqltp&istBid=t&&cmpid=GS001&_$ja=tsid:59157%7Cacid:804-627-9544%7Ccid:20269441415%7Cagid:%7Ctid:%7Ccrid:%7Cnw:x%7Crnd:12673297222812796571%7Cdvc:m%7Cadp:%7Cmt:%7Cloc:9046763&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=20269441415&utm_term=3100660&utm_content=shopping&utm_custom1=&utm_custom2=804-627-9544&GPDP=true&gad_source=1&gclsrc=ds

I’ve got the same as well as a smart phone

Know which one is the more reliable & it’s not the smart phone

 

[42]

Batteries don’t last forever. I could be indelicate about this and point out it’s a dwindling population of non smartphone users. 94% of the population use them.

By all means charge a fiver to over 70s and under 16s, but maybe £30+ to everyone else who just wants but doesn’t need a card.

Someone will come along and point out other demographics…that’s fine, let them be exceptions too, just not those who don’t have a real need…charge them £30+

I'd argue every parent who takes their kid with them also could argue they do need one for when they can't go & someone else goes instead. I have a card purely because when I can't go, my dad gets my ticket, so I need one.

I believe it is discriminatory to apply any charge in relation to an alternative that is necessary because of a disability. But on the flipside of that, it is not discriminatory to apply whatever charge you want when it’s a matter of choice.

But then you're making the choice, pay £50 extra for card or pay £150 for a phone you otherwise don't need. It's ridiculous