Oxford vaccine

[chrismisterx]

The common between both vaccines are pretty much the same, the rare and very rare are different.

Pfizer's

Rare side effects: may affect up to 1 in 1,000 people

• temporary one sided facial drooping
• allergic reactions such as hives or swelling of the face

Not known (cannot be estimated from the available data)

• severe allergic reaction
• inflammation of the heart (myocarditis or pericarditis)
• extensive swelling of the vaccinated limb
• swelling of the face (swelling of the face may occur in patients who have had facial cosmetic injections)

compared to AZ's

Very rare (may affect up to 1 in 10,000 people)​

• Following widespread use of the vaccine there have been extremely rare reports of blood clots in combination with low level of blood platelets. When these blood clots do occur, they may be in unusual or atypical locations (e.g. brain, liver, bowel, spleen).

Not known (cannot be estimated from the available data)​

• severe allergic reaction (anaphylaxis)
• rapid swelling under the skin in areas such as the face, lips, mouth and throat (which may cause difficulty in swallowing or breathing) (angioedema)
• low blood platelets (thrombocytopenia)
• hypersensitivity
• capillary leak syndrome (a condition causing fluid leakage from small blood vessels)

Moderna has been recalled due to tainted supplies 1.5 million doses IIRC, so trying to paint one vaccine better than another is showing how out of touch you are with the data, Pfizer is limited to one jab for the under 18's due to the risk of heart problems, so I don't understand why you think the tiny risk of AZ is worse than the tiny risk of Pfizer, apart from you have from for UK bashing.

Pfizer / Moderna has also acted differently than first expected, reason why the side effect list of the Pfizer website has been update as the studies presented new data.

but again all the vaccines are better than covid and AZ is better for long term use in the 3rd world and it seems as new data comes out lasts longer and keeps more people out of hospital, Pfizer / Moderna starts well and drops protection much faster than AZ, reason why Pfizer now recommends a 3rd jab, the trial and studies are on going for the booster atm, with very promising results.

Again all vaccines have less risk of death than if you catch covid for most adults, its the safer bet. THe kids are a little different as I think the risk of covid is so little I wouldnt risk AZ for clotting and sure as hell wouldnt risk Pfizer for the heart / bleeding issues

 

[Hansel]

I agree, but Pfizer is studying two "potential" causes of concern, the heart issue ( which thankfully now seems to be a tiny risk and most make a full recovery ) and the bleeding in ladies, which last I checked was still being studied to see why its causing that.

Fact is the vaccines have been a great success overall, with a few little bumps along the way, I aint keen on Pfizer being rolled out to kids until the data is in on the two points of concern above, but it winds me up when some bash one vaccine due to politics without looking at the bigger picture.

The MHRA are still saying they have not established any link with this. Obviously this may change if the data changes but at the moment it's looking either unlikely or extremely rare.

COVID-19 vaccines: updates for August 2021

Recent information relating to COVID-19 vaccines that has been published since the July 2021 issue of Drug Safety Update.

www.gov.uk

Review of reports involving menstrual disorders and unexpected vaginal bleeding​

The MHRA is reviewing, with expert advice, reports of suspected side effects of menstrual disorders and unexpected vaginal bleeding following vaccination against COVID-19 in the UK.

The rigorous evaluation completed to date does not support a link between changes to menstrual periods and related symptoms and COVID-19 vaccines.

 

[chrismisterx]

The MHRA are still saying they have not established any link with this. Obviously this may change if the data changes but at the moment it's looking either unlikely or extremely rare.

COVID-19 vaccines: updates for August 2021

Recent information relating to COVID-19 vaccines that has been published since the July 2021 issue of Drug Safety Update.

www.gov.uk

Review of reports involving menstrual disorders and unexpected vaginal bleeding​

The MHRA is reviewing, with expert advice, reports of suspected side effects of menstrual disorders and unexpected vaginal bleeding following vaccination against COVID-19 in the UK.

The rigorous evaluation completed to date does not support a link between changes to menstrual periods and related symptoms and COVID-19 vaccines.

Pfizer I believe said its a rare side effect and are studying the data with regards it, 2 lasses at my wife's work have suffered terrible from it, she says they bleed non stop.

Funny thing is doesn't show up any problems in the male reproductive system but then its young males at risk from the heart problems and the lasses dont seem to see the same problem with that.

But in context its a tiny tiny tiny risk. I don't put a great deal of stock with our reviews of data because we denied the clotting problem for quite some time and only after other counties kicked up a fuss do we change our advice, we seem a little slow to react, but we are advising only 1 jab for kids to reduce the heart issue risk.

Edit
Wife just said there's been reports of lasses who have gone through the menopause getting the periods back, she said she was reading a US based website talking about that.

 

[Hansel]

Pfizer I believe said its a rare side effect and are studying the data with regards it, 2 lasses at my wife's work have suffered terrible from it, she says they bleed non stop.

Funny thing is doesn't show up any problems in the male reproductive system but then its young males at risk from the heart problems and the lasses dont seem to see the same problem with that.

But in context its a tiny tiny tiny risk. I don't put a great deal of stock with our reviews of data because we denied the clotting problem for quite some time and only after other counties kicked up a fuss do we change our advice, we seem a little slow to react, but we are advising only 1 jab for kids to reduce the heart issue risk.

Edit
Wife just said there's been reports of lasses who have gone through the menopause getting the periods back, she said she was reading a US based website talking about that.

I could see how heavier bleeding could be vaccine linked especially as we know the vaccine can induce thrombocytopaenia and effects clotting in other ways. I'd be interested to see the proposed mechanism for the restoration of menstruation in post menopausal women.

 

[FootballFan]

I get how people are trying to defend it, but the stats dont add up

 

[Hardyman's Yugo]

I get how people are trying to defend it, but the stats dont add up

What stats, go on?

 

[Locke's SAFC]

I get how people are trying to defend it, but the stats dont add up

Chrismisterx seems to be pretty confident and has provided a few links. You should reply to him given you're so confident. Personally, I've no interest in which one is more effective, but i'm bored to tears with people who talk a lot about this virus while not knowing very much at all. 'No use now in just giving a blanket statement to no-one in particular, when you're being challenged directly on your 'opinions'.

 

[FootballFan]

What stats, go on?

the stats that have lead to unnecessary deaths, not sure you on a wind up

Chrismisterx seems to be pretty confident and has provided a few links. You should reply to him given you're so confident. Personally, I've no interest in which one is more effective, but i'm bored to tears with people who talk a lot about this virus while not knowing very much at all. 'No use now in just giving a blanket statement to no-one in particular, when you're being challenged directly on your 'opinions'.

I have no idea who chritsmaxrx is, but as stated above all stats are public so he will be on a dead end whoever he is trying to refute that

 

[chrismisterx]

Chrismisterx seems to be pretty confident and has provided a few links. You should reply to him given you're so confident. Personally, I've no interest in which one is more effective, but i'm bored to tears with people who talk a lot about this virus while not knowing very much at all. 'No use now in just giving a blanket statement to no-one in particular, when you're being challenged directly on your 'opinions'.

good point, any vaccine ( the big 3 at least is better than no vaccine for adults, no question at all )

My concerns have been dealt with by a very good set of studies which have dealt with quite a few fears, the work done has been fantastic, we understand so much more now than a few months ago.
We have just 1 or 2 final concerns ( which I have no doubt will be solved with the further data sets ) of why a few things happen, when the risks are fully understood, which they will be, I will back the kids being jabbed 100%, its my last concern to just make sure as best we can no harm will be done.

Fact is the vaccine is very safe ( all of them ) when compared to the virus and some other everyday medical procedures, so I feel every adult ( the older you get the more important it is ) should get jabbed and get a booster, I am a bit worried about mixing vaccines but thats a different concern.

 

[FootballFan]

good point, any vaccine ( the big 3 at least is better than no vaccine for adults, no question at all )

My concerns have been dealt with by a very good set of studies which have dealt with quite a few fears, the work done has been fantastic, we understand so much more now than a few months ago.
We have just 1 or 2 final concerns ( which I have no doubt will be solved with the further data sets ) of why a few things happen, when the risks are fully understood, which they will be, I will back the kids being jabbed 100%, its my last concern to just make sure as best we can no harm will be done.

Fact is the vaccine is very safe ( all of them ) when compared to the virus and some other everyday medical procedures, so I feel every adult ( the older you get the more important it is ) should get jabbed and get a booster, I am a bit worried about mixing vaccines but thats a different concern.

aha you are the man they were quoting.

well no, there is a very good reason the AZ vaccine has been taken off the market for certain age groups, and completely in certain countries.

Stop quoting dangerous stuff, lets keep it to the facts.

 

[Locke's SAFC]

the stats that have lead to unnecessary deaths, not sure you on a wind up


I have no idea who chritsmaxrx is, but as stated above all stats are public so he will be on a dead end whoever he is trying to refute that

I'll leave it to you, but if it helps chrismisterx has posted a few times on this page and he isn't resorting to blanket statements to no one in particular. If the idea is knowledge sharing, then he could be a good person to talk with on the qualities of the respective vaccines.

 

[chrismisterx]

the stats that have lead to unnecessary deaths, not sure you on a wind up


I have no idea who chritsmaxrx is, but as stated above all stats are public so he will be on a dead end whoever he is trying to refute that

Just a quick question, since your worried about the "clotting"

Are you happy for woman in the UK to be allowed to take the pill, when it causes many many more times clotting issues than AZ has?

Talk a little look at this study:-

Mortality among contraceptive pill users: cohort evidence from Royal College of General Practitioners’ Oral Contraception Study

Objective To see if the mortality risk among women who have used oral contraceptives differs from that of never users. Design Prospective cohort study started in 1968 with mortality data supplied by participating general practitioners, National Health Service central registries, or both...

www.bmj.com

Death rates and the pill - PubMed

Death rates and the pill

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

its interesting reading, with different studies coming to different ideas on the pills effects on death rates or other issues, to sum up the pill is very safe but does cause some issues, i think its around 10 deaths a year linked to the pill, but please don't quote me on that.

*It was right to stop younger people talking AZ, as there was no need to increase a risk when we had other jabs, just like i feel a single jab of Pfizer is the right call in 16-18 year olds.

 

[FootballFan]

I'll leave it to you, but if it helps chrismisterx has posted a few times on this page and he isn't resorting to blanket statements to no one in particular. If the idea is knowledge sharing, then he could be a good person to talk with on the qualities of the respective vaccines.

I've just responded to him, he is sadly trying to enforce AZ, but the facts dont back it up. Thats pretty clear.

 

[Locke's SAFC]

good point, any vaccine ( the big 3 at least is better than no vaccine for adults, no question at all )

My concerns have been dealt with by a very good set of studies which have dealt with quite a few fears, the work done has been fantastic, we understand so much more now than a few months ago.
We have just 1 or 2 final concerns ( which I have no doubt will be solved with the further data sets ) of why a few things happen, when the risks are fully understood, which they will be, I will back the kids being jabbed 100%, its my last concern to just make sure as best we can no harm will be done.

Fact is the vaccine is very safe ( all of them ) when compared to the virus and some other everyday medical procedures, so I feel every adult ( the older you get the more important it is ) should get jabbed and get a booster, I am a bit worried about mixing vaccines but thats a different concern.

Chris, I think any reasonable person would have said no one vaccine is 100% safe, but when it's been tested on a representative sample then we have no other option than to go with that (in the face of a pretty dangerous virus).

I think by now it should be clear to anyone that it was the right choice, by a long distance.

 

[FootballFan]

Just a quick question, since your worried about the "clotting"

Are you happy for woman in the UK to be allowed to take the pill, when it causes many many more times clotting issues than AZ has?

Talk a little look at this study:-

Mortality among contraceptive pill users: cohort evidence from Royal College of General Practitioners’ Oral Contraception Study

Objective To see if the mortality risk among women who have used oral contraceptives differs from that of never users. Design Prospective cohort study started in 1968 with mortality data supplied by participating general practitioners, National Health Service central registries, or both...

www.bmj.com

Death rates and the pill - PubMed

Death rates and the pill

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

its interesting reading, with different studies coming to different ideas on the pills effects on death rates or other issues, to sum up the pill is very safe but does cause some issues, i think its around 10 deaths a year linked to the pill, but please don't quote me on that.

*It was right to stop younger people talking AZ, as there was no need to increase a risk when we had other jabs, just like i feel a single jab of Pfizer is the right call in 16-18 year olds.

Thats the most ridiculous point I've heard in my life.

Case closed.

We are talking about Covid vaccines, what an idiotic post.

Chris, I think any reasonable person would have said no one vaccine is 100% safe, but when it's been tested on a representative sample then we have no other option than to go with that (in the face of a pretty dangerous virus).

I think by now it should be clear to anyone that it was the right choice, by a long distance.

are you mates with this loon?

 

[chrismisterx]

Chris, I think any reasonable person would have said no one vaccine is 100% safe, but when it's been tested on a representative sample then we have no other option than to go with that (in the face of a pretty dangerous virus).

I think by now it should be clear to anyone that it was the right choice, by a long distance.

I agree and its been very encouraging how well the studies have shown risks and how governments ( sometimes a little slow ) have reacted to the data, I don't think the roll out could have went much better to be honest, remembering how bad things where at first, it was scary times.

And to put it in context, I think its something like 1 in 10000 for any blood clot ( most are easily treatable ) where a common exam colonoscopy is two serious complications for every 1,000, so I do get a little upset when someone starts posting how bad a vaccine is without posting anything to back it up, fact is AZ is a very important vaccine for the 3rd world and for the fight against covid.

 

[Hardyman's Yugo]

Thats the most ridiculous point I've heard in my life.

Case closed.

We are talking about Covid vaccines, what an idiotic post.

I think you are confused between hazard and risk which are entirely different concepts. All of our actions and inactions every day have a hazard, it’s about the risk of them going wrong though.

You seem to be utterly fixated like a dog with a ball on the idea that there is a serious problem with the AZ vaccine, when the risks are incredibly low. Other vaccines carry risk, again the risks are low but we are talking about marginal not absolute differences between all of the approved vaccine types.

Do you apply the same thought processes to all medicines you take btw?

 

[chrismisterx]

Thats the most ridiculous point I've heard in my life.

Case closed.

We are talking about Covid vaccines, what an idiotic post.


are you mates with this loon?

why? Why not just answer the question?

its about risk to reward.

Everything medical from a normal pain killer to heart bypass has a risk, you have to decided on the risk to the reward.

The risk to reward for over 40's with AZ is very clear cut. Get the jab its a very safe vaccine, the younger the person the risk to reward changes and our government decided the increase in risk of the vaccine compared to the lower risk of covid in the younger people, ment the risk to reward wasn't as clear cut, so decided to use a different vaccine, if AZ was the only vaccine I have zero doubt we would have pushed on and used it on all age groups.

Now if you have some links that show I am wrong with how safe AZ is, I am happy to read them, maybe I missed something so please enlightening me.

 

[FootballFan]

I think you are confused between hazard and risk which are entirely different concepts. All of our actions and inactions every day have a hazard, it’s about the risk of them going wrong though.

You seem to be utterly fixated like a dog with a ball on the idea that there is a serious problem with the AZ vaccine, when the risks are incredibly low. Other vaccines carry risk, again the risks are low but we are talking about marginal not absolute differences between all of the approved vaccine types.

Do you apply the same thought processes to all medicines you take btw?

The AZ has been responsible for numerous deaths and has been taken off the radar in numerous countries - even in the UK for certain age groups!!!

You are flogging a dead horse trying to defend this one.

why? Why not just answer the question?

its about risk to reward.

Everything medical from a normal pain killer to heart bypass has a risk, you have to decided on the risk to the reward.

The risk to reward for over 40's with AZ is very clear cut. Get the jab its a very safe vaccine, the younger the person the risk to reward chances and our government decided the increase in risk of the vaccine compared to the lower risk of covid in the younger people, ment the risk to reward wasn't as clear cut, so decided to use a different vaccine, if AZ was the only vaccine I have zero doubt with would have pushed on and used it on all age groups.

Now if you have some links that sure I am wrong with how safe AZ is, I am happy to read them, maybe I missed something so please enlightening me.

your tone is so mental you are not even worth debating with, sorry

 

[chrismisterx]

The AZ has been responsible for numerous deaths and has been taken off the radar in numerous countries - even in the UK for certain age groups!!!

You are flogging a dead horse trying to defend this one.


your tone is so mental you are not even worth debating with, sorry

So no you don't have any links, that's ok I didn't think so.

My tone is like it is as your spouting some very dangerous stuff, young people take the pill all the time, don't even think about it, its as if its a tiny risk not worth worrying about, but the risk from a clot from the pill is a little higher than a clot from taking AZ, add to the fact there's deaths every year from taking the pill I cant get my head around how you cant understand that everything has some risk. ( using a the "pill" as an example as the main concern with AZ was clotting )

You have the death rate figures for the 3 vaccines to hand, showing AZ is much worse than the other two, I mean you have researched this for yourself and i guess your not just sporting Facebook posts and media stuff?

Give this a little read:-

FRIGHTENING! – 16th update on Adverse Reactions to Covid Vaccines released by UK Government / MHRA

BY THE DAILY EXPOSE ON MAY 20, 2021 Listen Now The UK Government have released their sixteenth report highlighting adverse reactions to both the Pfizer / BioNTech and Oxford / AstraZeneca vaccines…

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