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Monty Panesar

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HarrogateMackem

HarrogateMackem

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Like many on here, I watched the brilliant documentary 'the edge' recently and would certainly recommend it. In which Monty talks about his struggles with mental health and confidence problems. At one point he comes across someone that is quite resentful for being a figure of mockery/ fun for his batting and fielding, even if it was as a fan's favorite. This has got me thinking. Retrospectively, almost eight years since his last test for England, just how good a cricketer was Panesar?

In 50 test matches for his country, he averaged 4.8 with the bat and took 167 wickets for an economy of 2.8.

Undoubtedly an understudy to Swann at best. But his famous moments include that wicket of Tendulkar on his debut in 2006. He was the first English spinner to take five at the WACA in the 2005-06 whitewash. Or when he and Swann destroyed the Indian team in Mumbai in 2012. Cricinfo tells me that is only the fourth occasion that England spinners had combined to take 19 wickets or more wickets in a Test and the first time for 54 years. With the bat, that stand with Anderson at Cardiff in 2009 will live long in the memory.

At other points he struggled at home against India and Away in Sri Lanka in 2007, and then lost his place to Swann in India and the Caribbean in 2008. From that point he very rarely placed from England again. But in 2013 when he should have taken back over from the retiring Swan he was pissed on a nightclub bouncer and got himself sacked from Sussex.

So, was Panesar a cracking player who was unlucky with timing that he had Swann ahead of him? Or, was his batting/ fielding an issue and he was always a back up at best. Perhaps the fact he was a fan favorite actually meant got more opportunities than most?
 

Fairly average IMO. By no means a bad international cricketer and he looked really promising during his first 12 months of test cricket. But he never really developed his armoury and became a bit one-dimensional as a result. I don't feel he coped with pressure well either and could be found lacking in the 4th innings where he was expected to play a leading role.

He was never in the same class as Swann but should have been first in line when Swann retired. As it happened, he'd gone backwards as a bowler, was struggling with mental health issues and Ali surpassed him. Overall, I think an on form Monty and Ali are about on par.

What this does remind us however, is that whatever you think of Graeme Swann as a person (I don't mind him), he was an exceptional bowler for England.
 
I thought he was great but not to be compared to Swann who was exceptional. Off hand I can't think of a better pair of spinners bowling together., certainly not not in the last 50 years outside India and Pakistan.
 
He was OK, but only really had one delivery. On turning pitches he could get wickets, but aside from that he seemed pretty easy to play against.

I understand to a degree why he took the "banter" about his all round game to heart, but seriously, his batting and fielding in particular were a joke. Village standard.
 
The Breen Machine said:
What this does remind us however, is that whatever you think of Graeme Swann as a person (I don't mind him), he was an exceptional bowler for England.
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I agree with this. From what I've read/ seen of Swann I personally believe he was a nasty **** and a bully (and a Mag), but undoubtedly an absolutely fantastic player and a huge part of us becoming a top side.
 
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Shane Warne used to say that Panesar hadn't played 50 tests, he had played the same test 50 times - he didn't appear to learn from his experiences in test cricket and, as other posters have said, had one ball and no variation. Apparently he had his captains set fields for him rather than do it himself.
As for his batting and fielding - it was abysmal but he wasn't over criticised for it, he was just a victim of the Duncan Fletcher era where Fletch insisted all 11 could bat, bowl and field as much as possible.

Watching The Edge, Monty certainly comes across as a man with confidence issues. FWIW I loved watching him bowl when he took wickets - his enthusiasm was second to none
 
Dead exciting when he came on the scene as he looked the proper deal, a genuine wicket taking spinner, after years of journeymen like Giles, Croft and Embury 'holding down an end'.

Totally failed to maintain that standard and put in context by better spinners who followed.

The fact he's remembered more for his crap fielding and batting (saving the draw in Cardiff) and pissing on a bouncer than his bowling tells you everything you need to know.
 
HarrogateMackem said:
I agree with this. From what I've read/ seen of Swann I personally believe he was a nasty **** and a bully (and a Mag), but undoubtedly an absolutely fantastic player and a huge part of us becoming a top side.
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Swann had a heart the size of a pea. I know a lad that played with him at Notts - nobody liked Swann.
 
Going against the grain slightly but I think bowling wise he was excellent one of the best spinners we had at the time

However cricket is still a team game at the end of the day and his fielding and batting where so poor it was unacceptable for the top level and tbh the worst thing was I don't think he ever made a effort to improve either discipline so to still be getting a game just on your bowling I'd be wanting contributions like McGrath levels to justify selection and even though I do think he was a good bowler you'd much rather have a spin bowler who could bat a bit and be good in the field which over a game would probably save you more runs
 
Johnap said:
Swann had a heart the size of a pea. I know a lad that played with him at Notts - nobody liked Swann.
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Swann is a dirty, plastic mag. No-one likes those
crombie88 said:
Going against the grain slightly but I think bowling wise he was excellent one of the best spinners we had at the time

However cricket is still a team game at the end of the day and his fielding and batting where so poor it was unacceptable for the top level and tbh the worst thing was I don't think he ever made a effort to improve either discipline so to still be getting a game just on your bowling I'd be wanting contributions like McGrath levels to justify selection and even though I do think he was a good bowler you'd much rather have a spin bowler who could bat a bit and be good in the field which over a game would probably save you more runs
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When he came into the team we'd had years of Ashley Giles - good old, dependable and very boring Ashley Giles. Then we had this young Sikh who appeared to give the ball a rip and looked the real deal and full of enthusiasm. Then Fletcher went back to Giles for The ill-fated Ashes tour of 06-07.Monty can back into the team but Swann appeared a year or so later and appeared to be everything Monty wasn't....
 
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HarrogateMackem said:
I certainly believe you. But he was undoubtedly a cracking player though. 2009 or 2013 Ashes being a good examples of that.
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He was not a cracking player in 2013 - he blamed his elbow- England were 3-0 down, and getting worse. He walked out saying he retired. No bottle, no heart.
 
Johnap said:
He was not a cracking player in 2013 - he blamed his elbow- England were 3-0 down, and getting worse. He walked out saying he retired. No bottle, no heart.
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reading Cook's book, and Swan actually said to Cook he was going to retire after the home series win because of his elbow and that he asked Swan to carry on in Oz. Cook looks back on it and says that he probably shouldn't have selected him as he was gone mentally and physically, and that he was disappointed Swan left the tour straight away instead of staying on when he retired mid-series.
 
mackembhoy said:
Why does it take a stoppage in play for the bowlers to be told their bowling shite.

Are these not professional cricketers with so much experience on how to play cricket.

Monty and swann both averaged 28 in England.
Monty 43 away 21 neutral
Swann 31 away 25 neutral
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Thought someone would correct my half arsed stat.

Had a look on howstat and he was the model of inconsistency: 21 in the UAE followed immediately by 50 in SL.
 
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