RAWA Minutes from recent supporter's collective meeting with SAFC

[forever changes]

Poor managers.
They need someone to believe in. Beale and Dodds aren’t it.
We wouldn’t be here with TM still in charge, though we would be struggling, as when Clarke is out we have no one who can produce a bit of magic (well occasionally Bellingham).
Poor signings, poor managerial appointments.
I can understand the Beale appointment, as KS thought this young team just needed coaching well.
They don’t, they need to be inspired. At the moment when playing v us, all a team has to do is play with a bit of urgency as atm we are so tentative

My opinion anyway mate - I know it’s not with everyone else’s

They are very average players imo that’s the big problem. Hemir Hjelde Burstow Rusyn to name a few

 

[sksk3021]

Except the parachute clubs, all those are spending more than 100% of their income on wages. You really think that's a good idea? Even UEFA think that's daft.

How do you compete then? If others are doing it, spending 100% of turnover on wages and some have a huge financial advantage of parachute payments.
Not saying its a sensible thing to do, it almost certainly isn't (unless it works!!).

 

[offmenut]

They are very average players imo that’s the big problem. Hemir Hjelde Burstow Rusyn to name a few

Exactly.
More experience wouldn't resolve the fact we can't score or create much.
Better players than those you mentioned would.

 

[Hongkongphooey]

Exactly.
More experience wouldn't resolve the fact we can't score or create much.
Better players than those you mentioned would.

Would you class Kieffer Moore as an experienced striker, would you class Batth as an experienced defender, would you class Broadhead as an experienced striker. You can have both, better players that also bring experience.

 

[offmenut]

How do you compete then? If others are doing it, spending 100% of turnover on wages and some have a huge financial advantage of parachute payments.
Not saying its a sensible thing to do, it almost certainly isn't (unless it works!!).

You buy lots of young players, make your squad more valuable , then when you sell players like Clarke you can then buy players for 5/6 mil.
If you have a low wage to turnover and your wage to turnover isn't at 100% you can bring in these players without risking ffp.
You can also increase the wages of players you have got like Hume who are good enough and tie them.down to longer contracts.

You'll have to be lucky to compete with parachute payment clubs.
You'll have to be lucky in the first scenario too, and unearth players like we have with Clarke, cov did with gykores and Bristol city / Swansea did with Scott and piroe

You don't want to be in a position though that when you sell these players , most of the income goes on club debt and you can actually use the transfer fee to acquire new players

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

How do you compete then? If others are doing it, spending 100% of turnover on wages and some have a huge financial advantage of parachute payments.
Not saying its a sensible thing to do, it almost certainly isn't (unless it works!!).

It just shows what a financial basket case the division is. Hopefully, a switch to rules broadly in line with UEFA's new ones, with an effective cap on wages as a % of turnover will start to redress the balance.

 

[forever changes]

You buy lots of young players, make your squad more valuable , then when you sell players like Clarke you can then buy players for 5/6 mil.
If you have a low wage to turnover and your wage to turnover isn't at 100% you can bring in these players without risking ffp.
You can also increase the wages of players you have got like Hume who are good enough and tie them.down to longer contracts.

You'll have to be lucky to compete with parachute payment clubs.
You'll have to be lucky in the first scenario too, and unearth players like we have with Clarke, cov did with gykores and Bristol city / Swansea did with Scott and piroe

You don't want to be in a position though that when you sell these players , most of the income goes on club debt and you can actually use the transfer fee to acquire new players

Do you honestly believe money generated through sales will be reinvested in £5/6M players ???

 

[sksk3021]

It just shows what a financial basket case the division is. Hopefully, a switch to rules broadly in line with UEFA's new ones, with an effective cap on wages as a % of turnover will start to redress the balance.

Will just give an even bigger advantage to the teams with parachute payments won't it?

 

[Northumberland Rocks]

Except the parachute clubs, all those are spending more than 100% of their income on wages. You really think that's a good idea? Even UEFA think that's daft.

Of course I don’t and I’m sure 99.9% of supporters don’t either and of course we cant compete with parachute clubs.

However, there is a middle ground and being ambitious. We have wasted plenty money on quantity when we need to be going for quality.

They are very average players imo that’s the big problem. Hemir Hjelde Burstow Rusyn to name a few

The money we are paying quantity fillers in the Hope they may turn out decent in 2 or 3 years instead of in some quality experience to help the decent younger lads is the issue.

We deserve better than being a mid table championship puppy farm. The model needs tweaking for everyone, including the owners, benefit.

 

[sksk3021]

You buy lots of young players, make your squad more valuable , then when you sell players like Clarke you can then buy players for 5/6 mil.
If you have a low wage to turnover and your wage to turnover isn't at 100% you can bring in these players without risking ffp.
You can also increase the wages of players you have got like Hume who are good enough and tie them.down to longer contracts.

You'll have to be lucky to compete with parachute payment clubs.
You'll have to be lucky in the first scenario too, and unearth players like we have with Clarke, cov did with gykores and Bristol city / Swansea did with Scott and piroe

You don't want to be in a position though that when you sell these players , most of the income goes on club debt and you can actually use the transfer fee to acquire new players

I am just not sure it works at least not without some equity funding.
1. You have to be competitive with teams that are spending much more on wages.
2. You have to then be able to increase wages of the players that are good enough, but keep to your lower wage-turnover ratio which surely means you can't sign as many.
3. You have to be able to identify and sign these players in the first place, either paying fees (where does that money come from?) or getting them to sign on a wage bill that's not as high as most others.
4. You have to do all of this while not making a loss and running up debt, which would eat up any profits from player sales, or build up.
5. You have to sell enough of these players at a profit, that you can reinvest in more players, but do it on players that aren't going to increase that wage/turnover ratio.

Not sure I see how you can bring in more players and give new contracts to existing players and keep your wage bill at the lower levels, at some point you are going to have to push it up imo. Or be absolutely exceptional at recruitment for 2/3 windows on the bounce.

 

[TikaTakaTico]

I like the young squad
To go on from here and replace players like Clarke, we need to get better players than what we have bought so far, maybe 22-25 yr olds who have shown more consistency.
Our main problem, imo, is that young teams need to believe in their manager. They did with TM, someone who had experience. They seem a bit rudderless at the moment.

Absolutely-
I would say that with Mowbray- who is in reality (in the sense of what he's achieved), is a slightly above average, solid championship manager. But also experience on the pitch adds to this. In concert with the managers game management you have players who can anticipate what is happening, what the manager would want, how the opposition are going to react etc. None of these skills are related to ability, nor tactical coaching really- only in the sense of working over time with good coaches- rather they come with time.

An example. Against Southampton for their third. We had just scored twice, pushing hard (because we were 2-0 down and we had to) but once it's 2-2 the game changes- Southampton can't just protect their lead anymore so they will come out, and we are now in the position of potentially securing a valuable away point.
The team kept pushing, Dodds was either unable or unwilling to reel them in (they likely saw the headlines if a 2-3 comeback)- Styles got caught way way too far forward and Southampton carved straight through us.

Baath, Pritchard, Gooch- you would imagine- would have been screaming for styles et al. to keep their heads and keep tight. Mowbray would have likely been screaming the same.

None of our team have the authority to do that right now.

We didn't lose games like that under Neil or Mowbray (after making a comeback), in fact we probably won from going a goal down more under Mowbray than anyone else I can remember.

Another example is Ba with his cretinous yellow cards for whinging at the ref. The bollocking should have started on the pitch, and not finished until he understood what an idiotic thing he had done.

Gooch said this thing about how at least when Pritchard was there the young players could talk to him. Senior/experienced players play vital roles on the pitch as I've mentioned bit also in the dressing room, both with support and constructive criticism. It's an addendum- to the manager. Its difficult to expect Neil and Ballard to do this when they are still building their own careers.

All these people I've mentioned though- Gooch, Baath, Pritchard and Mowbray (throw Evans in there.as well)- they are just average or slightly above average championship quality.

The fundamental problem, as I see it, is that our decision makers have the dual problem of 1) not having any experience themselves (KLD is 26 and when Speakman said that Beale was doing the best coaching he'd ever seen- he was probably right considering that Speakman has never worked with any high quality coaches- he's from Birmingham's academy- his closest brush to quality will have been seeing a past it harry redknapp in the canteen for a few months.
2) Relying on a data based recruitment which is unable to take into consideration a non numerical quality like experience. All crosses into the box, all successful tackles in the final third are equal to them (married to whatever algorithm decides quality of league) are equal to our recruitment team. But it's only half a picture when you take into account what actually happens during a game.

The solution sadly is what we had about 12 months ago.
Players like Baath and Pritchard were brought in to get us out of league 1, they almost got us out of the championship (as a blend with quality young players with high ceilings).
Sadly we seem to have taken the wrong lessons from this experience (this being evidenced by our league position).

 

[Tom]

I think KLD and Speakman are the reason most (except desperate kids) will avoid our club.

Exactly, Ipswich are where they are in the league & an attractive gig because of the way they have been run the last couple of years. We are where we are & not so attractive for the same reasons.

They are very average players imo that’s the big problem. Hemir Hjelde Burstow Rusyn to name a few

I’d say less than average for this league, I think your being generous.

 

[UrbanFox]

then when you sell players like Clarke

You can also increase the wages of players you have got like Hume who are good enough and tie them.down to longer contracts.

Then why not also increase the wages of all the better players like Clarke and tie him/them down?
Firstly it provides them with an incentive to stay, secondly it provides an incentive for the lesser players to pull their socks up and thirdly it helps to actually build a team rather than just be used as a puppyfarm.

 

[Thatheaderman]

Then why not also increase the wages of all the better players like Clarke and tie him/them down?
Firstly it provides them with an incentive to stay, secondly it provides an incentive for the lesser players to pull their socks up and thirdly it helps to actually build a team rather than just be used as a puppyfarm.

You will burn at the stake for that.

 

[sksk3021]

Then why not also increase the wages of all the better players like Clarke and tie him/them down?
Firstly it provides them with an incentive to stay, secondly it provides an incentive for the lesser players to pull their socks up and thirdly it helps to actually build a team rather than just be used as a puppyfarm.

Clarke would probably want to play in the Premier league anyway and get a huge increase in wages that we couldn't afford.

 

[offmenut]

Then why not also increase the wages of all the better players like Clarke and tie him/them down?
Firstly it provides them with an incentive to stay, secondly it provides an incentive for the lesser players to pull their socks up and thirdly it helps to actually build a team rather than just be used as a puppyfarm.

We did and we would.
Weve extended contracts fairly well tbh.

Clarke is too good for this league and will be gone in the summer.

 

[UrbanFox]

Clarke would probably want to play in the Premier league anyway and get a huge increase in wages that we couldn't afford.

People keep saying that, and it may be true, but I also reliably hear that he really likes playing for the club. If we’d any ambition at all we could offer him the chance to fulfil his Premiership aspirations with us.

 

[SPUFF]

Will just give an even bigger advantage to the teams with parachute payments won't it?

Since the short era we feel like a club preying legislation will somehow be our saviour rather than ambition.

Feck all will change in the game imo. More ambitious clubs will go up/win things and none of these “basketcase” clubs will suffer greatly.

 

[Mackem Al]

Started the minutes and gave up reading half way through. Utterly depressing lip-service without any real commitment. You can tell the club absolutely hate doing these.

 

[Alfies Hat]

Do you honestly believe money generated through sales will be reinvested in £5/6M players ???

Even if it isn't invested in £5M players he'll come up with a reason why the club shouldn't spend the money.