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Kirsten declares interest


It makes sense to split the roles to attract a better cadre of candidate for red ball. On Kirsten specifically: just get it done, sign him up, ludicrous we sacked him off last time. He's the right man for the job.

But if we do split the roles up, then we need an equivalent of Speakman's role for us and it can't be Ashley f***ing Giles. I was just saying on the other thread - why the fuck haven't we had a clear development strategy for a talent like Pope, where he is blooded in ODI cricket - he could easily play the Root/Malan role. That would prepare him for international pressure (my hypothesis on his struggles is mental pressure and not being able to handle it). Now, Silverwood should be able to do that given the power he has, no excuses for him. But you could see how that dynamic and a lack of joined up thinking might emerge without a structure above two coaches with competing interests.
 
I am gonna give myself credit here, he said in this interview almost word for word what I have been saying, about picking the best technical batsman in the country and then working with them over a long period.

Even name checked James Vince! Chunky wont be pleased
Eggman said:
Is the right answer.

However, they’ll jump through so many hoops to be seen to be fair to all comers, that I’m sure they’ll make a pigs ear of it
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Athers pushing for Strauss do replace Harrison as chief executive, which I think is a great idea.

I think Giles and Silverwood need to go, however I am not convinced by all the calls for total change of the english game etc

I think you'd see a much better improement with better appointments in those key positions
 
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Comeback_Kenwyne said:
It makes sense to split the roles to attract a better cadre of candidate for red ball. On Kirsten specifically: just get it done, sign him up, ludicrous we sacked him off last time. He's the right man for the job.

But if we do split the roles up, then we need an equivalent of Speakman's role for us and it can't be Ashley f***ing Giles. I was just saying on the other thread - why the fuck haven't we had a clear development strategy for a talent like Pope, where he is blooded in ODI cricket - he could easily play the Root/Malan role. That would prepare him for international pressure (my hypothesis on his struggles is mental pressure and not being able to handle it). Now, Silverwood should be able to do that given the power he has, no excuses for him. But you could see how that dynamic and a lack of joined up thinking might emerge without a structure above two coaches with competing interests.
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I see your logic but my issue with too many of England's young test players is that they have to feel bat on ball and don't feel blooding the in ODI cricket helps this.
 
rentaghost said:
I see your logic but my issue with too many of England's young test players is that they have to feel bat on ball and don't feel blooding the in ODI cricket helps this.
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It doesn't.

But it exposes them to pressure. Used to be what we did all the time in old days, players would get a taste of ODI first. Now the teams are seen as more separate and/or white ball is seen by the suits as more important, so using it for development just isn't done.

What you really want is someone coming to the test team like Malan did this year. He's accumulated a lot of runs at red ball and showed his technique there. And, as was case this year (rarely) the last cricket he'd played was red ball too - he'd just got a big knock for Yorkshire iirc. But I do think it helps that in his gap between test selections, he has become a world class white ball exponent.

Tldr: first class red ball cricket is the technical preparation, white ball international the mental. Bit of both ideal.
 
Silly Point said:
Kristen for red ball and Colly for white ball. Sorted :cool:
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Fancy Morgan might move upstairs in white ball, you know.

I'd fancy Colly as a batting coach across formats. There has to be something people can learn from him, there hasn't been a single player in the game I can think of whose approach/technique differed so much between the two formats. That ability to move through the two, mentally as much as anything else, demands he has a prominent role. It's the key thing we need.


GordonMuchallNo1Fan said:
Correct
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Giles overruled others on the panel iirc. Ffs.
 
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rentaghost said:
I see your logic but my issue with too many of England's young test players is that they have to feel bat on ball and don't feel blooding the in ODI cricket helps this.
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Aye fair point and I think its harder for the ECB than people are making on

young batsman know the way for an easier career is to get on the T20 franchise circuit, people like Tom Banton will have already made 10x what he would have done just as a county red ball player. Theres less motivation for a talented lad to ignore the money of white ball cricket as there is such a small chance he will make it as a red ball player.

ECB cant just be blamed for this, as Banton is going to Australia, India, UAE, T10 etc.

You could say ECB could incentivise red ball contracts more, but there are so many counties and so many players its a big financial commitment

Its just the way cricket is going, and the outrage seems to be over the fact we cant win in Australia, and for some reason ignores the fact we usually beat Australia in England.

Also its not like Australia has a mountain of test batsman coming through, Smith and Warner are the wrong side of 30 and theyve only really produced Marcus L who looks world class

Travis Head only average 18 last year in England, but somehow thats getting spun as a positive for him
 
The Rat said:
Athers pushing for Strauss do replace Harrison as chief executive, which I think is a great idea.

I think Giles and Silverwood need to go, however I am not convinced by all the calls for total change of the english game etc

I think you'd see a much better improement with better appointments in those key positions
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Agree with all of that, England always far too reactive after a poor performance. You always hear in football 'we need to follow the xxx model' after getting knocked out of a tournament with xx being whoever won and you hear the same calls about the country championship when our test side look bad. Well the cc was the same when we were world number one anarl so where is the sense?
 
chunkylover53 said:
Just me that thinks it’s a bit odd declaring interest in a role when someone is still doing the job?
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Was going to post the same
Twisted said:
Agree with all of that, England always far too reactive after a poor performance. You always hear in football 'we need to follow the xxx model' after getting knocked out of a tournament with xx being whoever won and you hear the same calls about the country championship when our test side look bad. Well the cc was the same when we were world number one anarl so where is the sense?
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It's not just England to be fair. Apparently in Spain and Portugal there were calls to following the "England model" after the last euros, whatever that means.
 
chunkylover53 said:
Just me that thinks it’s a bit odd declaring interest in a role when someone is still doing the job?
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aye its strange but considering he has been rejected at the final interview twice he is probs just thinking fuck it, I will make it known publicly

I think its also a case of the media wanting him themselves too
 
Twisted said:
Agree with all of that, England always far too reactive after a poor performance. You always hear in football 'we need to follow the xxx model' after getting knocked out of a tournament with xx being whoever won and you hear the same calls about the country championship when our test side look bad. Well the cc was the same when we were world number one anarl so where is the sense?
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Was it ?

Now most CC games are April and then Sptember. I don't think it was like that 8 or so years ago
 
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