Jonny Bairstow

chunkyshanhawk53

chunkyshanhawk53

Striker
Contributor
Let me start by saying he has been brilliant in the short form stuff. But I’m starting to doubt whether he should be playing in the Ashes

Average is down to sub 37
Average in 2019 is 22 (before today)
Average in 2018 was 30
Average in 2017 was 34
Average vs Australia (14 matches) is 28
Out bowled 30% of the time (not the method a top player gets out that often)

These are not stats for a top 4 bat (albeit we don’t have many of them!). At 5, he averages sub 30 for example, and he’s hardly batted at 3 or 4. And he’s not the best keeper in the country clearly

He clearly cares, but given his reaction to losing the gloves and his reaction during the WC he’s also a bit of a tart.

Given we have a better gloveman in Foakes. And another keeper who will play in Buttler, does he deserve to play?
 


chunkylover53 said:
Foakes has a minor side strain I understand.

What’s stopping us going with Buttler or Foakes at 7, Stokes at 6, and some batsmen in the top 5?

Bairstow test form in the last 3 years has been poor. Not as bad as Modern with the bat, but still far from an automatic pick.
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Buttler hasn't really done much to suggest he's a better keeper/batsman than Bairstow he did alright last summer playing as a specialist batsman but he needs to score more runs
 
chunkylover53 said:
Let me start by saying he has been brilliant in the short form stuff. But I’m starting to doubt whether he should be playing in the Ashes

Average is down to sub 37
Average in 2019 is 22 (before today)
Average in 2018 was 30
Average in 2017 was 34
Average vs Australia (14 matches) is 28
Out bowled 30% of the time (not the method a top player gets out that often)

These are not stats for a top 4 bat (albeit we don’t have many of them!). At 5, he averages sub 30 for example, and he’s hardly batted at 3 or 4. And he’s not the best keeper in the country clearly

He clearly cares, but given his reaction to losing the gloves and his reaction during the WC he’s also a bit of a tart.

Given we have a better gloveman in Foakes. And another keeper who will play in Buttler, does he deserve to play?
Click to expand...

Your argument is a good one... until you try to get a replacement who's better his 30-odd average.
 
chunkylover53 said:
Foakes has a minor side strain I understand.

What’s stopping us going with Buttler or Foakes at 7, Stokes at 6, and some batsmen in the top 5?

Bairstow test form in the last 3 years has been poor. Not as bad as Modern with the bat, but still far from an automatic pick.
Click to expand...
2017 series against South Africa he averaged 41
2017 series against Australia at home he averaged 32.

Those are not hanging offence averages.

2018 series against india 25
2018 series against New Zealand 40
2018 seris against Australia 34

Those aren't hanging offences averages either, although the India one is lower than you'd like.
 
Bri said:
2017 series against South Africa he averaged 41
2017 series against Australia at home he averaged 32.

Those are not hanging offence averages.

2018 series against india 25
2018 series against New Zealand 40
2018 seris against Australia 34

Those aren't hanging offences averages either, although the India one is lower than you'd like.
Click to expand...
I’ve just pulled out the calendar year averages mate.
 
chunkylover53 said:
Let me start by saying he has been brilliant in the short form stuff. But I’m starting to doubt whether he should be playing in the Ashes

Average is down to sub 37
Average in 2019 is 22 (before today)
Average in 2018 was 30
Average in 2017 was 34
Average vs Australia (14 matches) is 28
Out bowled 30% of the time (not the method a top player gets out that often)

These are not stats for a top 4 bat (albeit we don’t have many of them!). At 5, he averages sub 30 for example, and he’s hardly batted at 3 or 4. And he’s not the best keeper in the country clearly

He clearly cares, but given his reaction to losing the gloves and his reaction during the WC he’s also a bit of a tart.

Given we have a better gloveman in Foakes. And another keeper who will play in Buttler, does he deserve to play?
Click to expand...

I do agree with you about him looking like a tart and someone who likes his own way.

However considering the competition for places in the England side and the clear lack of depth and talent at the moment it’s ridiculous to even suggest him not been in the ashes side.

There is no way in a million years there is 6 or 7 better batsman in this country than him!

NorthCountryBoy said:
Your argument is a good one... until you try to get a replacement who's better his 30-odd average.
Click to expand...

And that is the whole point, like in any sport you drop someone for someone who is better, we have not got anyone better.
 
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Voice of fair play said:
I do agree with you about him looking like a tart and someone who likes his own way.

However considering the competition for places in the England side and the clear lack of depth and talent at the moment it’s ridiculous to even suggest him not been in the ashes side.

There is no way in a million years there is 6 or 7 better batsman in this country than him!



And that is the whole point, like in any sport you drop someone for someone who is better, we have not got anyone better.
Click to expand...
Roy
Burns
Hain
Root
Buttler
Stokes
Foakes (WK)
Woakes/Curran.

There's your top seven.
 
Voice of fair play said:
I do agree with you about him looking like a tart and someone who likes his own way.

However considering the competition for places in the England side and the clear lack of depth and talent at the moment it’s ridiculous to even suggest him not been in the ashes side.

There is no way in a million years there is 6 or 7 better batsman in this country than him!



And that is the whole point, like in any sport you drop someone for someone who is better, we have not got anyone better.
Click to expand...
I get the argument. But I’d say he is imbalancing the side as his record in the top 5 is so average.

I know it’s one innings, but the shot today was ridiculously loose. And he has form for it.

So you have to play him 7. And have Buttler and Stokes one place higher. Arguably worse for them as they should bat 6 and 7.

Opinions obviously
 
chunkylover53 said:
I get the argument. But I’d say he is imbalancing the side as his record in the top 5 is so average.

I know it’s one innings, but the shot today was ridiculously loose. And he has form for it.

So you have to play him 7. And have Buttler and Stokes one place higher. Arguably worse for them as they should bat 6 and 7.

Opinions obviously
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I know my view is black and white, but I just can’t see 6 better batsman than him, in fact you could easily argue he is the second best batsman in the side.

I would change it altogether myself , would certainly have Roy 5 or 6 as think it’s ridiculous and unfair on Roy asking him to open the batting in the Ashes when he does not even open for his county!!

TheRey said:
Roy
Burns
Hain
Root
Buttler
Stokes
Foakes (WK)
Woakes/Curran.

There's your top seven.
Click to expand...

I would change it altogether

Burns
Root
Bairstow
Ballance
Roy
Stokes
Buttler (wk)

Radical I know but could it be any worse than it has been?
 
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Voice of fair play said:
I know my view is black and white, but I just can’t see 6 better batsman than him, in fact you could easily argue he is the second best batsman in the side.

I would change it altogether myself , would certainly have Roy 5 or 6 as think it’s ridiculous and unfair on Roy asking him to open the batting in the Ashes when he does not even open for his county!!
Click to expand...
Fair enough.

I just don’t think he is the best 6 or 7, I think that’s Buttler and Stokes (and I have been plenty critical about them both in the past). And sadly I don’t see him above 6.
 
chunkylover53 said:
His performances since he was brought back have been better. Averages about 10 runs an innings more (can’t be arsed to calculate the exact figure).
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Hes done alright at 5 which is where I'd keep him

Roy
Root
Buttler
Stokes
Bairstow

That would be my 3-7, haven't got a clue on the openers. Sibley has done alright so he might get a shot
 
You can knock him in the shorter format but I've always considered to be very overrated at test level, Chunky has pretty much outlined the reasons in his OP. Difficult to drop him at the moment as no one's really knocking down the door other than Ballance, but his value to the team is overstated. 6 hundreds in 63 tests and he's a weaker keeper than Foakes and Buttler, he certainly should not be considered as indispensable as he currently is. Continued failures in the opening 2 or 3 Ashes tests should see his place in serious jeopardy, but I have a feeling it won't be.
 

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