---Nemo---
Striker
I don't recall Greaves ever being up against the mighty Montenegro, Serbia, Macedonia, Slovakia, Ukraine, Slovenia and the like.
Jimmy Greaves has been airbrushed from history
- Thread starter Hulkster
- Start date
I don't recall Greaves ever being up against the mighty Montenegro, Serbia, Macedonia, Slovakia, Ukraine, Slovenia and the like.
vinegar hill
Striker
That was my point. Even ignoring the stats he obviously looks a highly skilled player on film, I've also seen him play.
I don't know what it is with you revisionists wanting to downplay obviously great players from the past.
Was Pele shite? Eusebio? Garrincha? Beckanbeur? Best? Charlton?
Of course the games moved on, I love the modern game, but great players would be great players in any era they were brought up in.
I don't recall Greaves ever being up against the mighty Montenegro, Serbia, Macedonia, Slovakia, Ukraine, Slovenia and the like.
10 of his international goals were against Northern Ireland, and 3 against Luxembourg.
Agreed. Messi would be the best of all time in any era.
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---Nemo---
Striker
Who are both still available for modern players to fill their boots against. My point remains the same, there's never been more gimme nations involved in international football.
I agree with that, but it's not a valid argument to use against more recent players when Graves benefited similarly.
---Nemo---
Striker
First of all I'm not arguing against anyone, I'm simply supporting the claim that Greaves was top class. IMO, and that's all it is, is that he is the greatest finisher I have ever seen. Secondly it's undeniable that there are currently more minnows around now than there were back then. Little wonder we qualify for the Euros in particular when you look at the groups we've been drawn in.
General Zod
Striker
I don't recall Greaves ever being up against the mighty Montenegro, Serbia, Macedonia, Slovakia, Ukraine, Slovenia and the like.
Breakdown of his goals here: -
Jimmy Greaves - Wikipedia
The bulk of them were against shit teams (back then) and in friendlies.
4 v Peru
3 v Luxembourg
4 v Norway
10 v Northern Ireland
5 v Wales
A few more against other misc shit teams in friendlies. 1 goal out of 7 games in world cup finals provides a bit more context.
The same league where opposition players smoked, drank heavily (often the night before a match), lacked fitness, pace & tactical awareness? That league?
Just providing context that's all mate. I've already stated Greaves was a class player & amongst the very best of his generation, which is all anyone from any generation can aspire to be. The point I've been trying to make, which has seemingly been lost on a few people is that it's easier to stand out when you're up against a higher concentration of poorer quality opposition and its harder to stand out when you're up against higher quality.
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Greaves was doing that as well though tbf.
All players were. Not like Greavsie was an elite athlete against Sunday league players.
Mercia Blackcat
Striker
Breakdown of his goals here: -
Jimmy Greaves - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The bulk of them were against shit teams (back then) and in friendlies.
4 v Peru
3 v Luxembourg
4 v Norway
10 v Northern Ireland
5 v Wales
A few more against other misc shit teams in friendlies. 1 goal out of 7 games in world cup finals provides a bit more context.
The same league where opposition players smoked, drank heavily (often the night before a match), lacked fitness, pace & tactical awareness? That league?
Just providing context that's all mate. I've already stated Greaves was a class player & amongst the very best of his generation, which is all anyone from any generation can aspire to be. The point I've been trying to make, which has seemingly been lost on a few people is that it's easier to stand out when you're up against a higher concentration of poorer quality opposition and its harder to stand out when you're up against higher quality.
At the same, a game where you could be flattened with a tackle from behind and the game was much more physical.Tackles that would result in an instant red now were routine back then. You needed very quick feet to avoid them and a lot of defenders were built like brick shit houses.
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General Zod
Striker
So you acknowledge that the overall general standard was a lot lower than it is today? Its harder to stand out today by not smoking, drinking or training properly because most other players dont smoke, they train properly and if they do drink it tends to not be the night before a match.
That is a good counter argument, yet players still get injured for lengthy periods nowadays, albeit I'd wager a lower % are impact injuries and more due to ruptures/tears due to the pace & intensity of games.
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Absolutely do. The game today is so far advanced from even 20 years ago. The best teams of the 60s, they'd probably struggle to beat a league two team these days. They just couldn't handle the pace.
My Boy Harry
Striker
Yes I'm not sure that the lad you replied to has quite thought this through.I don't recall Greaves ever being up against the mighty Montenegro, Serbia, Macedonia, Slovakia, Ukraine, Slovenia and the like.
Thats not the point is it?
You might as well say that the Liverpool team of 2019/20 is better than any of the league champions from the 1880's therefore we should just give LFC all of those titles.
Football changes and it should advance. If it doesnt then there is something wrong with the sport.
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Mercia Blackcat
Striker
The British game has always been played at pace. There was a transition in the 1970s to a slower more continental style that involved passing the ball around more at the back and in midfield but that was not our style at the time. It's true that we have speeded that style up in pace to what we have today. However there were some great players at the time...Best, Baxter, Greaves. It was a heavier ball back then and I think they could more than hold their own for an hour but after that the sheer fitness of today's teams would take over. The offside rule has also been changed into the attackers favour.
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vinegar hill
Striker
Would you rather he hadn't scored them?
All his domestic goals are in the top division, have you seen his record before he's 21 for Chelsea?
Are you saying he's overrated or over hyped?
He'd scored 157 goals for Chelsea before he was 21 man in the top tier.Breakdown of his goals here: -
Jimmy Greaves - Wikipedia
The bulk of them were against shit teams (back then) and in friendlies.
4 v Peru
3 v Luxembourg
4 v Norway
10 v Northern Ireland
5 v Wales
A few more against other misc shit teams in friendlies. 1 goal out of 7 games in world cup finals provides a bit more context.
The same league where opposition players smoked, drank heavily (often the night before a match), lacked fitness, pace & tactical awareness? That league?
Just providing context that's all mate. I've already stated Greaves was a class player & amongst the very best of his generation, which is all anyone from any generation can aspire to be. The point I've been trying to make, which has seemingly been lost on a few people is that it's easier to stand out when you're up against a higher concentration of poorer quality opposition and its harder to stand out when you're up against higher quality.
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General Zod
Striker
You sure about that mate? According to Wiki he got 124 league goals from 157 games over 4 seasons at Chelsea and the last season would have finished when he was 21, not before he was 21. I think your 157 is the number of league appearances, not the number of goals scored? Still impressive stats to be fair
vinegar hill
Striker
Well done Zod.
Just testin seeing if you were keepin up.
