ID checks for away tickets

[Guinness Guzzler]

The reason this thread exists though has little to do with x passing on their season card.

The driver behind this is the fact the PL are pissed about third parties.


The ticket won’t have existed at the time mate - hence the high price. A lot of third parties will charge high prices because it gives them a load of room to source a ticket.

At £272 they will hope to be able to get one on the day for say £100-£150. That still makes them a minimum of £120 profit on a £30 ticket.


You will know better than me mate but from my understanding it’s the selling of tickets on Facebook that is pissing off the club and it’s been an issue for perhaps 18mths.

To also stop third parties, the PL are pushing for random checks as well.

That's a big part of it. But there's also been discussions about how to ensure it's fair now that lots of people with pretty high points are missing out. If they're legitimately missing out to people with more points then fair enough. If any miss out because some are keeping points artificially high so they can go to the big games, then there's an issue. I know there was discussions about what they'd do if demand stayed high for a few seasons and no younger fans could break into going to away games, ballots and things had been mentioned previously which I think the vast majority would oppose. This will be partly FA, partly Facebook annoyance, but also partly ensuring it's fair given the demand

 

[Be Here Now]

It'd keep the part timers out

Be much better

Proper closed shop ensuring a better atmosphere

Or even relatively close ones last season like Preston, Stoke, Coventry etc which people with less than 10 points could have easily went to bit of a coincidence how a lot of people are suddenly available to go to away games this year.

Such a shame some only wanting to go to Premier League games

 

[Chop Sauce]

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They aren’t legit old fruit. Can you show me how I can get two for west ham please?

no, i'm not saying it's a new thing. i'm simply saying it's wrong. if you don't mind wrong doing then crack on.

yes. it's called being fair and doing the right thing and perhaps if everybody did it this thread wouldn't exist.

You think every ST holder went to Wembley or gave them to friends and family?

 

[Barney Mackem 13]

Not denying it happens with the branches, though probably not to the extent people think. But I think the club always tolerated it with the branches to an extent because they are a net positive. Coach travel is expensive, there are very fine margins between it being financially viable or not and the people who run the branches often take the hit when people don't turn up or when they can't fill a bus. They obviously can't sell a coach seat to someone without a ticket so if they're able to keep a handful of spares they can sell ticket + travel - those couple of seats might be the difference between being able to put a coach on or not.

It's about 20 years since I used to travel with a branch (all on my own ticket) but there were some very unique and dedicated individuals for whom following the club was their sole passion in life but without the branch wouldn't be able to organise transport on their own, for example, because of age, loneliness, learning difficulties etc. Think the club always turned a blind eye and looked after the branches because a couple of tickets here and there made very little difference in the grand scheme but could be the difference between some of the most dedicated (and potentially vulnerable) fans being unable to travel, 99.9% of whom have done the miles religiously for decades in their own right.

I believe the branch applications used to be processed seperately to ensure they could all sit together, which is where the idea of them getting special treatment comes from even though they still needed the requisite points, but that isn't the case anymore AFAIK and they have to get them the same as anyone else. Think really it's the Facebook group they need to target as people on there are just taking the piss for no other reason other than Scrafton's vanity.

This is a great post.
One of the best I have read on the subject - Branches are ran by dedicated people who spend a lot of personal time organising travel and tickets etc. Whilst at the minute I do tend to travel independently, I have also used a "Branch bus" to get to games, all be it always sourcing my own ticket.

A great point which has also been raised is - The branches are public enemy number 1 at the minute whereby its these social media posts which need shutting down and also lets have some transparency around the F&F gang / corporate as they take a decent wack every away game and no-one knows how many they take.

Tin hat on here but I agree. This season's away atmosphere for majority has being a bit disappointing imo. Chelsea was immense. Forest and Palace was canny. Liverpool was truly awful and I thought Brighton was pretty quiet for most of it. Fulham was awful aswel.

I thought Forest, Chelsea and City were good as per, I wasn't at Fulham, but Brighton I agree was poor. Not sure why that was the case though?

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Nobody would want that but if that is what would happen then it feels like this is a bigger issue ie branches facilitating the hoarding of points for their members, than any of us think. Either that or you're exaggerating the impact in the hope that they dont get caught up in the checking

Im old enough to remember the disaster the 19pt season had on the branches mate and we need to be careful.

A lot of branches went from running 2-3 coaches to away games, to not being able to fill a coach as demand fell off a cliff.

In just over a week, the club will be desperate for the branches to help get people to the SOL for City. In fact I know that at least two branches are running multiple coaches for the match (just like they did for Sheff Utd).

On a standard match day, a number of volunteers help run buses to get fans to the SOL from all over the north east. It’s frankly a thankless task that I personally wouldn’t even consider doing.

From my own experience, I’d also say at least 90% of a branch bus is made up of regulars. In fact, a lot of branches are wary of opening up bookings to everyone as that often creates its own issues.

If some tickets do make their way to members that perhaps don’t quite have the loyalty points, then frankly its a small price to pay for the service their offer to our fanbase.

 

[TOONDOON]

Fairest system was back in the 80's, turn up and pay on the door and if the away end is full go round the corner to the home stand and keep your mouth shut as best you can

Hear, hear.

 

[humbug]

You think every ST holder went to Wembley or gave them to friends and family?

your point?

Im old enough to remember the disaster the 19pt season had on the branches mate and we need to be careful.

A lot of branches went from running 2-3 coaches to away games, to not being able to fill a coach as demand fell off a cliff.

In just over a week, the club will be desperate for the branches to help get people to the SOL for City. In fact I know that at least two branches are running multiple coaches for the match (just like they did for Sheff Utd).

On a standard match day, a number of volunteers help run buses to get fans to the SOL from all over the north east. It’s frankly a thankless task that I personally wouldn’t even consider doing.

From my own experience, I’d also say at least 90% of a branch bus is made up of regulars. In fact, a lot of branches are wary of opening up bookings to everyone as that often creates its own issues.

If some tickets do make their way to members that perhaps don’t quite have the loyalty points, then frankly its a small price to pay for the service their offer to our fanbase.

nobody's doubting the importance of the branches but they shouldn't be above scrutiny. i suppose my point in all this is fairness which is main issue for me.

 

[tynevalleyblackcat]

Re the branches, what do they do for say Brentford which is a midweek match three days after another London game and has a much reduced allocation? I assume they just won't be able to run a bus? Due to lack of interest/tickets?

 

[BarnesPark]

They aren’t legit old fruit. Can you show me how I can get two for west ham please?

Where’s your evidence for that, or are you saying it because it doesn’t suit your agenda.

 

[tynevalleyblackcat]

Its not but the same rules should apply to everyone - just because they have a bus to fill doesn't make them exempt from the rules

I tend to agree. What if my group of friends and family has 5 people in the pts catergory but only three want to go. Can pass on the other two tickets because we have 'a car to fill'?

If that's the case then we kiss goodbye to the branches then

Why? Surely the people on the bus should be the same people with the pts? If they are there is no issue and the branches can continue to thrive.

Just because they happen to travel on a bus does not make them excempt from the checks that I am subject to going by train or in my campervan.

I can see what your saying, but it's about perspective for me..

A bloke who runs a branch, putting in endless hours of voluntary time and effort to organise busses, getting 40 tickets of which 10 go to other members of the branch, to me isn't a massive issue. Not ideal, but it keeps the branch going and I'd trust the bloke running the branch to naturally make sure the spare tickets go to people who are deserving ... Probably people who have been in that branch for years, have season tickets already and have been to many many away games over the years. The likelihood of one of those tickets ending up in the "wrong" hands is minimal. They'll end up going to proper sunderland fans

You can't say that about Leo Hjeldes cousins window cleaner getting his hands on a ticket

Or a rich person who has never been to a game in thier lives, paying to jump the queue

Just my opinion. Can see how people may feel differently and that's fine. It's not exactly a controversial stand point. And it's not bulletproof, I can see that


I think branches "hoard" enough points to keep that branch going and the branch will consist entirely of proper sunderland fans. It's not ideal but I don't have a problem with it

To be fair, Leo Hjelds cousins window cleaner probably does not live in the UK and is unlikely to be a Sunderland fan. Leo Hjeldes window cleaners cousin on the other hand.......

 

[Chop Sauce]

Where’s your evidence for that, or are you saying it because it doesn’t suit your agenda.

Can you get me some overpriced west ham away please? It’s a dodgy site old fruit keep up at the back

 

[North Yorks Mackem]

Exactly, they've been an integral part of the club for decades

They need to be exempt from ID checks

Which will essentially disadvantage those who aren't in branches. The branches have been such an important part of our away support going back decades. But so have those of us that travel independently. If there's id checks, which i kind of understand, i think it has to be for everyone.

 

[tynevalleyblackcat]

Of course all this could be very easily solved if we had national ID cards. Most other countries have them and if you have nothing to hide, pay your taxes and are not a criminal, why would you object?

The club have your ID and it gets printed on your ticket. If the ID does not match at the turnstyle, you don't get in.

Thats what happens in Poland. They check your ID against the ticket (and in our cases as non Poles they check your passport number which you have to give to buy the ticket in the first place).

ADO Den Haag now have Iris recognition and Ferenvarcos have finger print entry.

At least we have a 3 year (?) cut off for points. I read that the mags points are indefinite so some have built up massive totals so are now just old and miserable as opposed to young and boisterous. Think we saw that first hand in the derby.

I’ve always thought loyalty points should be on a sliding recognition scale. If they made a league away game 3 points, home game 1 point and cup games 2 points, it would reward ST holders loyalty and they’d start the next season with 19 points even if they didn’t go away. Obviously this would push all the thresholds up. By the third season they’d have 57 points - I’d say someone who has 3 years of continuous ST deserves some sort of loyalty recognition rather than being stuck on 0 just because they don’t regularly go away. Doesn’t solve the problem of sharing numbers but I’ve always thought the 1 point per away game system was too simplistic.

This is flawed thinking in the same way people thought they should get a point for Wembley. There is no advantage in getting a point for home games or Wembley when every other season ticket holder gets the point as well and nobody moves up or down the list. Its pardon the pun 'pointless'.

 

[BarnesPark]

Can you get me some overpriced west ham away please? It’s a dodgy site old fruit keep up at the back

As I thought. Zero evidence.

Are you claiming Seat Pick is a “dodgy site”? It’s an aggregator pal with a good reputation and one I’ve used many times.

No point in debating with someone who will just deny what’s in front of them.

If you want the club to be effectively criminalising dads giving a spare ticket to their lad, you carry on your one man crusade to keep the rules as they are.

I think it’s pretty disgusting, but each to their own.

 

[penno13]

Of course all this could be very easily solved if we had national ID cards. Most other countries have them and if you have nothing to hide, pay your taxes and are not a criminal, why would you object?

The club have your ID and it gets printed on your ticket. If the ID does not match at the turnstyle, you don't get in.

Thats what happens in Poland. They check your ID against the ticket (and in our cases as non Poles they check your passport number which you have to give to buy the ticket in the first place).

ADO Den Haag now have Iris recognition and Ferenvarcos have finger print entry.

What a shit world we’ve brought our kids into

 

[Barney Mackem 13]

Of course all this could be very easily solved if we had national ID cards. Most other countries have them and if you have nothing to hide, pay your taxes and are not a criminal, why would you object?

The club have your ID and it gets printed on your ticket. If the ID does not match at the turnstyle, you don't get in.

Thats what happens in Poland. They check your ID against the ticket (and in our cases as non Poles they check your passport number which you have to give to buy the ticket in the first place).

ADO Den Haag now have Iris recognition and Ferenvarcos have finger print entry.

This is flawed thinking in the same way people thought they should get a point for Wembley. There is no advantage in getting a point for home games or Wembley when every other season ticket holder gets the point as well and nobody moves up or down the list. Its pardon the pun 'pointless'.

But, we don't have national ID cards do we, we do not by law have to carry any form of ID as is our right. If people want to object, such is their right, I have nothing to hide, pay my taxes etc and I won't carry ID unless, as you say in due course we have to.

Its time the club had a press release over all of this. I travel often to away games leaving on a Friday with no form of valid ID such is my right, so if they decide to send me an e-mail later on, on the Friday. Tough.

 

[Chop Sauce]

As I thought. Zero evidence.

Are you claiming Seat Pick is a “dodgy site”? It’s an aggregator pal with a good reputation and one I’ve used many times.

No point in debating with someone who will just deny what’s in front of them.

If you want the club to be effectively criminalising dads giving a spare ticket to their lad, you carry on your one man crusade to keep the rules as they are.

I think it’s pretty disgusting, but each to their own.

Worra clown. Find me those away tickets or shut up.

 

[BarnesPark]

But, we don't have national ID cards do we, we do not by law have to carry any form of ID as is our right. If people want to object, such is their right, I have nothing to hide, pay my taxes etc and I won't carry ID unless, as you say in due course we have to.

Its time the club had a press release over all of this. I travel often to away games leaving on a Friday with no form of valid ID such is my right, so if they decide to send me an e-mail later on, on the Friday. Tough.

It’s me Huuuuuuman rights man!!!

Also within the clubs rights to turn you away.

You remind me of those knackers on you tube who fly drones around all day waiting to be challenged so you can have an argument about your rights.

Enjoy exercising your rights while you listen to the match on the radio.

Worra clown. Find me those away tickets or shut up.

So

1. You asked me to show you where tickets are sold

2. I showed you

3. You told me to shut up.

Mate- you’re the one wanting fans persecuted for passing on the odd ticket, not me.

I don’t think we’ll ever agree.

 

[Barney Mackem 13]

It’s me Huuuuuuman rights man!!!

Also within the clubs rights to turn you away.

You remind me of those knackers on you tube who fly drones around all day waiting to be challenged so you can have an argument about your rights.

Enjoy exercising your rights while you listen to the match on the radio.

So

1. You asked me to show you where tickets are sold

2. I showed you

3. You told me to shut up.

Mate- you’re the one wanting fans persecuted for passing on the odd ticket, not me.

I don’t think we’ll ever agree.

You again, simple answer, go and pester someone else, last engagement with you.

Worra clown. Find me those away tickets or shut up.

Dont engage mate, she's just a WUM, I love winding people up at times, but she's just another level. Block her

 

[Chop Sauce]

It’s me Huuuuuuman rights man!!!

Also within the clubs rights to turn you away.

You remind me of those knackers on you tube who fly drones around all day waiting to be challenged so you can have an argument about your rights.

Enjoy exercising your rights while you listen to the match on the radio.

So

1. You asked me to show you where tickets are sold

2. I showed you

3. You told me to shut up.

Mate- you’re the one wanting fans persecuted for passing on the odd ticket, not me.

I don’t think we’ll ever agree.

You’ve lost the plot. Completely lost it.