kildaremackem
Striker
if they didnt matter in the premier league..clubs wouldnt bother building new stadiums.
Obviously TV money is by far the biggest bit..but tickwet money is also a meaningful proportion of the total...
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Home Games Income
- Thread starter essex boy
- Start date
Obviously TV money is by far the biggest bit..but tickwet money is also a meaningful proportion of the total...
riffraff
Striker
Depends on all of theirs and our ST prices.
When we were last in the PL alongside Fulham our incomes where similar. Shocked me.
SAFCftm1986
Striker
Still expensive for Saturdays ref that
HorsePills
Winger
It used to be that an external company ran the food and drink rather than the club. Not sure if that's still the case, but it wasn't all money into the club.
HeaderDownBrown
Striker
nufctommie
Alfa
Striker
We should get £23.99 refund off Stroud for Saturdays performance
kildaremackem
Striker
but very cheap season tickets which is what the vast majority buy.
We idnt have cheap tickets in league one but were ludicrously cheap in the premier league.
ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK
Winger
That's what is misleading you as you're just looking at the individual price and not the average price. It was looked at when we were in the Premier League and a quick simple comparison if you just look at season revenue divided by total fans over season (average gate divided by games played).
Here's an old image from 2015/16 I think when we averaged 41,287 fans and got gate receipts of £8.9m which was the 14th lowest revenue from the 8th highest average attendance. The FAN £ is what each fan would have to pay per game over 19 games (rounded up) and the SEASON £ is simply the 19 games in a lumper.
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There's a considerable gap between us with the lowest FAN £ and most other teams. There's even an example of £26 per fan to match West Ham but given that's double the average price of £11 then you'd have to increase all tickets by the same factor (2.36). Using this season then the currently cheapest £390 adult season ticket now becomes £921 or a kids £96 ST becomes £227 with an average of £494. Even so that only raises the revenue by £11.5m to £20.4m which will pay for a £6m player on a 4 year £20k weekly contract. These are just rough examples as it's based on 19 league games and doesn't include cup games which would mean the average per fan is lower.
Look at what Southampton fans were paying on average as it was £38 which 3.45 times more and the equivalent of us paying £1347 for adult and £331 for kids. The same goes for Bournemouth @£34 and Brighton @£32 and there's not much difference in total revenue between us and those teams around us, Huddersfield aside, that would really affect player purchasing power. Look at Chelsea as they averaged just 5 less fans per game yet paid £97 per game compared to our £11 (nearly 9 times more) and got £67m more revenue.
Obviously this out of date and not to the penny as it's just a very rough estimate. We're also not in the Premier League any more so won't be down in the bottom half of revenue or bottom of the average per fan £. We may be nearer the top regarding revenue but are we near the top per fan £? I'd also be interested to see what Spurs are now given the ridiculously high prices in the new stadium as most season tickets are around £1,100 or more IIRC.
Long gone are the days of having a huge crowd meaning an income advantage. That is unless you start to price out fans like some clubs are clearly doing in the PL. For clubs like us it's more down to the TV money and more of a level playing field unless you're one of the big clubs who can charge silly money and price fans out due to having huge demand for tickets, which probably also means they generate more income from elsewhere making the gap even bigger.
In reality all this dick waving about having big crowds isn't taking into account how much fans are paying on average. If Southampton fans had their ticket prices reduced to less than a 3rd and had to pay just £11 on average and had a 50,000 stadium would they fill it given the 1,000's priced out given it's £38 average and still filled a 30,000 stadium? How many 1,000's of SAFC would be priced out up here if we doubled prices, never mind increased them by nearly 3.5 times?
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Binxy
Striker
That was 7 year ago.
Monkeyspunk
Midfield
My estimate is 23 home games averaging around 38k @ 350 per ST( lower STS counteract the matchday sales and cooperate sales) gives us a revenue of £13.3m from ticket sales and cooperate. Our wage bill for first team squad will be around £9m. Take off tax etc and add in pension employer tax and then add every other member of staff from first team coach to cleaner,then running costs you can see why almost every club in championship run at a loss.
Grumpy Old Man
Striker
Probably overestimating the income and understating expenditure there.
ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK
Winger
How much were prices back then in our last season in the PL compared to now?
:edit: I've done a quick google and got this basic info to give an example
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Here's this seasons ticket info
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Adults have gone up from £350 to £390 so just over 10%. Over 65's have gone up £20, just under 10% and or Under 22s are £5 cheaper and we now have U18s along with U16s. Say that's an increase of 11% of prices overall then if you average that up from the £11 a fan back then it means it's just over £12 per fan. That £8.9m revenue back then was based on a 41k average so if we had the same amount of ticket sales for each pricing level then with the 37k average we're getting now it would be around £9m revenue for this season.
You'd also have to factor in the lack of higher priced Premier Concourse tickets bumping it up the average back then compared to the limited tickets at the moment given we're averaging 4,000 less ticket sales compared to back then and a canny few of those will have been in the PC. If we somehow got back into the PL next season then it's a certain we'd be one of the cheapest tickets and back near the bottom of the average price per fan and total revenue lists. Again these are just very rough numbers but it's just to give an idea.
That's not to say we're not the highest revenue in the Championship now, I'm sure we're up there but in terms of extra spending power to improve the squad, the gap isn't that huge if you compare us to other clubs near the top. There's obviously revenue that comes from other areas and you'd like to think we'd also be up there at the top also. Given the smaller revenue differences if you factor in costs etc then it's also more about how you spend and invest the money. Thankfully it looks like we've stopped the days of just flinging money at players like we did in the past, especially in the PL but the downside is the threat of losing Stewart
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CaptainRed
Midfield
Tickets are pretty cheap, £40 a season card for U16s I think, then there's various offers like the schools one on Saturday. I think we work out at an average ticket price of £13 per ticket the accounts show so around £500,000 from a 40k crowd, then knock 20% VAT off that so around £400,000 or so.
Binxy
Striker
At QPR kids under 8 get in free.
CollingwoodFTM
Striker
Looking at the Swiss Ramble data
2017 £6.6m gate receipts 23 games = £0.28m per game. Ave attendance- 27,635
2018 £8.6m gate 31 games = £0.37m per game. Ave attendance- 32,157
2019 £6.8m gate 22 games = £0.295m per game. Ave attendance - 30,118
2018 had the play offs and Pizza Cup finals, so probs swells the gate money a bit.
2019 the season finished early.
2017 £6.6m gate receipts 23 games = £0.28m per game. Ave attendance- 27,635
2018 £8.6m gate 31 games = £0.37m per game. Ave attendance- 32,157
2019 £6.8m gate 22 games = £0.295m per game. Ave attendance - 30,118
2018 had the play offs and Pizza Cup finals, so probs swells the gate money a bit.
2019 the season finished early.
Monkeyspunk
Midfield
That's before
Only expenditure I stated was first team squad wage bill. We will have plenty more overheads such as staffing levels throughout the club, running the AOL , tax insurance etc etc etc . The income was just a general guess based on an average crowd all paying the lower ST price to compensate for higher priced match day tickets, higher priced ST, concessions, hospitality etc etc. Either way I think it is clear why clubs at championship level are all running at a loss
How much were prices back then in our last season in the PL compared to now?
:edit: I've done a quick google and got this basic info to give an example
You must be logged on to see external links
Here's this seasons ticket info
You must be logged on to see external links
Adults have gone up from £350 to £390 so just over 10%. Over 65's have gone up £20, just under 10% and or Under 22s are £5 cheaper and we now have U18s along with U16s. Say that's an increase of 11% of prices overall then if you average that up from the £11 a fan back then it means it's just over £12 per fan. That £8.9m revenue back then was based on a 41k average so if we had the same amount of ticket sales for each pricing level then with the 37k average we're getting now it would be around £9m revenue for this season.
You'd also have to factor in the lack of higher priced Premier Concourse tickets bumping it up the average back then compared to the limited tickets at the moment given we're averaging 4,000 less ticket sales compared to back then and a canny few of those will have been in the PC. If we somehow got back into the PL next season then it's a certain we'd be one of the cheapest tickets and back near the bottom of the average price per fan and total revenue lists. Again these are just very rough numbers but it's just to give an idea.
That's not to say we're not the highest revenue in the Championship now, I'm sure we're up there but in terms of extra spending power to improve the squad, the gap isn't that huge if you compare us to other clubs near the top. There's obviously revenue that comes from other areas and you'd like to think we'd also be up there at the top also. Given the smaller revenue differences if you factor in costs etc then it's also more about how you spend and invest the money. Thankfully it looks like we've stopped the days of just flinging money at players like we did in the past, especially in the PL but the downside is the threat of losing Stewart
Good post. I think in terms of the bold bit like the highest revenue is always the relegated teams with the parachute payments. Literally gives them a massive advantage. What a clusterfuck we were to finish bottom again with that ‘advantage’
Idle Mackem
Midfield
Whilst that's interesting, does it take into account how different clubs account for their matchday revenue? As I understand it, all of our corporate revenue is classified as 'commercial revenue' - I don't believe that to be the case at many other clubs which means the data and numbers being compared aren't like for like.
Randy Savage
Striker
Yes, there was. My son is in Seaham High and they got a letter (he already has a ST though).
