Football Index - A warning/cautionary tale for football fans.

[Guinness Guzzler]

Football Index collapse: 'I lost £4,000 in seven days'

Absolutely awful. Mind, massive tin hat on, I find it harder to have sympathy for people like Jack, who has lost over 7 grand, when he goes on to say "The concept is still brilliant. It was fun. If there was a change of management I'd be willing to give them a second chance - but I'll definitely reduce my (financial) stake". I mean haway, getting caught up in it once is fair enough, it certainly seemed legit to most punters (myself included, although I never signed up with them). But once you've been bitten, you've lost a load of money, you've realised that this idea of paying out dividends only really works if more and more people are pumping money if in, why the fuck would you be like "aye, get a new person in charge and I'll do it again".

 

[SAFC1962]

I really think Talk Sport have a lot to answer for here, always promoting this shite, someone should call them about whatever crap they're talking about then see how many seconds before they're cut off when they mention the scam they "pushed"

 

[andysafc85]

I think people should be aware that any money they put in will almost certainly be lost.

I am absolutely shocked to the core at this information

 

[Mickdundee]

I really think Talk Sport have a lot to answer for here, always promoting this shite, someone should call them about whatever crap they're talking about then see how many seconds before they're cut off when they mention the scam they "pushed"

As much as I agree (more on the basis that gambling companies shouldn’t be pushed by anyone rather than it being this particular company involved), they were being paid advertising/sponsorship money by a company that was regulated by the gambling commission. From a TS point of view, this was no different to previous sponsorship/advertising deals with the likes of Ladbrokes etc.

Similarly, you can’t put any blame on Forest or QPR for having them as their main shirt sponsors - from their perspective it was no different to our sponsorship with Betdaq or Birmingham with Boylsesport.

Football Index to anyone who wasn’t clued up on their inner workings was just another gambling brand to most people.

 

[bennett83]

Sounds like the same kind of scheme as binary options that I got roped into a few years back. You were called a trader but in reality you were just betting on the price of gold etc. It was £200 to start up, got upto £1000 then couldn't withdraw, ended up through my own faulty putting it all back in and ended up £500 down

Lesson learnt

 

[The Hesford Diet]

Yet another Ponzi scheme, relying on new customers so that they could pay dividends to the punters already signed up. Then fucked over everyone when the incoming revenue started to dry up.

Yet a couple of gamblers in that BBC article want to carry on! Fools and money and that.

 

[KittenMittens]

I am absolutely shocked to the core at this information

Yet another Ponzi scheme, relying on new customers so that they could pay dividends to the punters already signed up. Then fucked over everyone when the incoming revenue started to dry up.

Yet a couple of gamblers in that BBC article want to carry on! Fools and money and that.

Ha! It may seem obvious now but I think a lot of this is how it was presented and how they kept up the image of it doing well until the end. They were still selling players above market value in the weeks before, so people were being suckered in right up until the last minute by their advertising and public image of a stable platform. Even their customers who were only just about breaking even were trying to convince others to join up - with the ulterior motive of boosting their own yields if the market could begin to grow again.

I think the way they called their players traders, talked about the 'football stock market', dividends... it was all set up to look and feel different to the average betting product (the hallmarks of a good ponzi scheme tbf). The gambling categorisation was something they tried to avoid until last year, it was only once things took a downturn that they became more forthright with it, but it was still one of those 'we've technically got to say we're a gambling product, but we're soooo much more sophisticated than that...' type of deal.

Most importantly, by all accounts it was actually a pretty compelling game to play for people regardless of the financial element. Add in real money, and I have sympathy with people who were convinced by Football Index's canny marketing and outright lies, that the contest they were engaging in was a fair and honest one. As has been documented, FI were publicly saying how well they were doing, while simultaneously knowing they would at some point in the near future, need to pull the rug out from under their investors and completely annihilate their deposits. That's fraud, in my view.

 

[PTR]

Always seemed like absolute nonsense to me, and I bought shared in GME.

 

[Get Into Em]

A lad I know earned over 5 grand on it. Not sure if he withdrew it or kept on reinvesting like.

IIRC a footballer's shares price wouldn't just rise and fall based on their performance, but also their media presence. Last year when Messi was linked to City, his price apparently went right up but dropped once it became clear he was staying at Barca. Does this mean that their users (especially if working in groups) could influence the market to gain a profit for themselves?

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

A lad I know earned over 5 grand on it. Not sure if he withdrew it or kept on reinvesting like.

IIRC a footballer's shares price wouldn't just rise and fall based on their performance, but also their media presence. Last year when Messi was linked to City, his price apparently went right up but dropped once it became clear he was staying at Barca. Does this mean that their users (especially if working in groups) could influence the market to gain a profit for themselves?

That's the reason I never got into it tbh. If it was based purely on things like appearances, goals, assists, whether the player moves on for a high fee, that kind of thing, it would be more attractive. Thankfully (with hindsight) when I looked into it, it just seemed too complicated. A player could be doing really well but not be in the press and things, so I just never got round to trying it. Looking at it now you can see how those who got in early probably made really good money, but also how it isn't sustainable at all without new people constantly propping it up.

 

[Comeback_Kenwyne]

This is really really sad.

Have to admit, as a rule, I never gamble: I'm quite risk averse with my money and just don't get a kick out of it at all. Been to Vegas, just couldn't get into it.

However, these adverts almost pulled me in, not because I thought I could win loads of money, but because it seemed fun, like a really innovative product that could give a little edge to watching the sport we all love. It seemed to have a kind of strategy/financial investment aspect, which doesn't come from normal betting.

As it is, I was too lazy to follow it up, but I nearly got sucked in and loads of people will have - once you show an interest in a product in the digital advertising age, you basically get waterboarded with advertising until you succumb (and often even after!). Moreover, the way it was marketed was as if it was a genuine financial investment, with all the regulatory protections that would come with that, rather than just sticking a tenner on a accumulator.

It's a disgrace. I hope there's a concerted campaign to help people who have been misold this to get some of their money back, but it'll take years.

Awful stuff. Got to be people on here who've lost a fair wedge.

That's the reason I never got into it tbh. If it was based purely on things like appearances, goals, assists, whether the player moves on for a high fee, that kind of thing, it would be more attractive. Thankfully (with hindsight) when I looked into it, it just seemed too complicated. A player could be doing really well but not be in the press and things, so I just never got round to trying it. Looking at it now you can see how those who got in early probably made really good money, but also how it isn't sustainable at all without new people constantly propping it up.

That complication is 100% what saved me; I was attracted but ultimately just too lazy.

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

This is really really sad.

Have to admit, as a rule, I never gamble: I'm quite risk averse with my money and just don't get a kick out of it at all. Been to Vegas, just couldn't get into it.

However, these adverts almost pulled me in, not because I thought I could win loads of money, but because it seemed fun, like a really innovative product that could give a little edge to watching the sport we all love. It seemed to have a kind of strategy/financial investment aspect, which doesn't come from normal betting.

As it is, I was too lazy to follow it up, but I nearly got sucked in and loads of people will have - once you show an interest in a product in the digital advertising age, you basically get waterboarded with advertising until you succumb (and often even after!). Moreover, the way it was marketed was as if it was a genuine financial investment, with all the regulatory protections that would come with that, rather than just sticking a tenner on a accumulator.

It's a disgrace. I hope there's a concerted campaign to help people who have been misold this to get some of their money back, but it'll take years.

Awful stuff. Got to be people on here who've lost a fair wedge.


That complication is 100% what saved me; I was attracted but ultimately just too lazy.

Aye, it's sneaky because lots of us play football manager and things, so we probably all think we've got a decent idea of which young players might become decent. If that's all it was I might have been suckered in.

Same as yourself I'm very risk averse. I do matched betting because you can't lose. Actual betting never interested me. I get a bit envious when I see people winning hundreds on an accumulator, but then I remember that, long term, they almost certainly lose more than they win, which doesn't appeal to me! I get the idea that it can be enjoyable if having a bet gives interest to an otherwise dull game, but I'm too averse to losing money. This did sound different though, I'm so glad I didn't get suckered into it, but I have been on their site several times reading about it and deciding whether to go for it,most recently about 3 months ago. I'd probably have been very badly hit if I'd got involved then. Really hope people get at least some of their money back

 

[SuperGerryHarrison]

Classic Ponzi scheme - no tangible products being sold, no ownership of anything tangible, required more and more users to ensure existing users get paid. Will 100% always end in failure.

The biggest shock to me is how it was allowed to trade for as long as it did. I must admit, until recently I thought it was just a game you bought from the app store ,and perhaps paid a monthly fee, or bought loot boxes for. I had no idea people had £000s "invested" in this.

The regulators need to take a long look at this in the wash up - i'm sure there's more like this out there too, purporting to be fx trading or share trading platforms.

 

[Comeback_Kenwyne]

Aye, it's sneaky because lots of us play football manager and things, so we probably all think we've got a decent idea of which young players might become decent. If that's all it was I might have been suckered in.

Same as yourself I'm very risk averse. I do matched betting because you can't lose. Actual betting never interested me. I get a bit envious when I see people winning hundreds on an accumulator, but then I remember that, long term, they almost certainly lose more than they win, which doesn't appeal to me! I get the idea that it can be enjoyable if having a bet gives interest to an otherwise dull game, but I'm too averse to losing money. This did sound different though, I'm so glad I didn't get suckered into it, but I have been on their site several times reading about it and deciding whether to go for it,most recently about 3 months ago. I'd probably have been very badly hit if I'd got involved then. Really hope people get at least some of their money back

Exactly - we were the target market, slightly nerdier football fans who have grown up on football manager. I felt myself being pulled, but I needed both my laziness and risk aversion to save me.

Classic Ponzi scheme - no tangible products being sold, no ownership of anything tangible, required more and more users to ensure existing users get paid. Will 100% always end in failure.

The biggest shock to me is how it was allowed to trade for as long as it did. I must admit, until recently I thought it was just a game you bought from the app store ,and perhaps paid a monthly fee, or bought loot boxes for. I had no idea people had £000s "invested" in this.

The regulators need to take a long look at this in the wash up - i'm sure there's more like this out there too, purporting to be fx trading or share trading platforms.

Agree 100% on this, including about what I initially thought it was.

 

[KittenMittens]

The regulators need to take a long look at this in the wash up - i'm sure there's more like this out there too, purporting to be fx trading or share trading platforms.

The biggest problem here is that the GC seem to be doubling down and pretending it's outside their remit to have ever gotten involved. Conflict of interest when stuff like this happens and all of a sudden they go defensive.

Football Index collapse: MPs call for inquiry into 'scandal'

The failure of the betting site raises serious questions about regulation of the gambling industry, MPs say.

www.bbc.co.uk

A group of MPs has written to Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden calling for a public inquiry into the collapse of gambling website Football Index.
They say it is "a scandal" and shows the need to reform the gambling sector.
The firm has suspended operations and appointed administrators, sparking an outcry from punters whose money is still locked up in the business.
There are reports gamblers could lose more than £90m, with some now seeking legal advice about possible claims.
In their letter, the MPs on the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Gambling Related Harm estimate that Football Index punters have lost £3,000 each on average.
"This can only be termed a scandal," said chair Carolyn Harris. "It underlines the need for wholesale reform of the gambling industry and raises significant questions of the Gambling Commission, given they saw fit to licence this platform and failed to enact adequate oversight."
Not only does there need to be a urgent inquiry, it is more evidence of the need to create a Gambling Ombudsman to help protect consumers, she said.

 

[legend7]

I could've so easily got sucked in. People tend to trust brands that are commercially visible and reputable. Never even considered that the value of these players is not objective and subject to huge levels of manipulation by the site itself. This is where the trust comes in. I wouldn't have even thought it likely that they'd be so brazen.

Yeah that's why I never looked into it properly as I did wonder if they could just fiddle their own figures slightly (and if I'm honest I love football but I ain't an expert)
Pleased I stayed away and what they have done just seems like out and out theft, especially not giving people the opportunity to get their money out if they didn't like the new terms.
Shocking.

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

Ha! It may seem obvious now but I think a lot of this is how it was presented and how they kept up the image of it doing well until the end. They were still selling players above market value in the weeks before, so people were being suckered in right up until the last minute by their advertising and public image of a stable platform. Even their customers who were only just about breaking even were trying to convince others to join up - with the ulterior motive of boosting their own yields if the market could begin to grow again.

I think the way they called their players traders, talked about the 'football stock market', dividends... it was all set up to look and feel different to the average betting product (the hallmarks of a good ponzi scheme tbf). The gambling categorisation was something they tried to avoid until last year, it was only once things took a downturn that they became more forthright with it, but it was still one of those 'we've technically got to say we're a gambling product, but we're soooo much more sophisticated than that...' type of deal.

Most importantly, by all accounts it was actually a pretty compelling game to play for people regardless of the financial element. Add in real money, and I have sympathy with people who were convinced by Football Index's canny marketing and outright lies, that the contest they were engaging in was a fair and honest one. As has been documented, FI were publicly saying how well they were doing, while simultaneously knowing they would at some point in the near future, need to pull the rug out from under their investors and completely annihilate their deposits. That's fraud, in my view.

One thing I've just read (not that I understand much about it) is that people might be even less likely to get their money back because the money generally isn't seen as cash, like a balance at a bookie would be, but as an open bet, which seems to be harder to determine value. Already seems like people might only get 5% or whatever. Awful when you're seeing people down tens of thousands. Surely there'll have to be charges brought here, especially given they were still sending "risk free" promotion offers to potential new customers whilst they must have known it was going to collapse

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

One thing I've just read (not that I understand much about it) is that people might be even less likely to get their money back because the money generally isn't seen as cash, like a balance at a bookie would be, but as an open bet, which seems to be harder to determine value. Already seems like people might only get 5% or whatever. Awful when you're seeing people down tens of thousands. Surely there'll have to be charges brought here, especially given they were still sending "risk free" promotion offers to potential new customers whilst they must have known it was going to collapse

Now they're in administration, then unless money has been held in an escrow accounts for "investors" (which seems unlikely given everything else that's come to light), anyone with a balance there will be an unsecured creditor, and unlikely to see anything.

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

Now they're in administration, then unless money has been held in an escrow accounts for "investors" (which seems unlikely given everything else that's come to light), anyone with a balance there will be an unsecured creditor, and unlikely to see anything.

Apparently they had "medium" fund protection. Something about people's funds being held in a different account. I know some bookies have no protection, others have high. Not sure if that's relevant at all

 

[KittenMittens]

One thing I've just read (not that I understand much about it) is that people might be even less likely to get their money back because the money generally isn't seen as cash, like a balance at a bookie would be, but as an open bet, which seems to be harder to determine value. Already seems like people might only get 5% or whatever. Awful when you're seeing people down tens of thousands. Surely there'll have to be charges brought here, especially given they were still sending "risk free" promotion offers to potential new customers whilst they must have known it was going to collapse

Now they're in administration, then unless money has been held in an escrow accounts for "investors" (which seems unlikely given everything else that's come to light), anyone with a balance there will be an unsecured creditor, and unlikely to see anything.

As GOM says, it's likely that any customers will be unlikely to get anything back unless there are some assets that we're unaware of. As far as I can see, the IP/domain/tech might be worth some money, but in this type of scenario, people will only pay peanuts to get it on the cheap. The chances of any serious cash filtering down to players is virtually zero.

II do know - and I'm hoping this is still the case - before things went tits up, they kept any uninvested balance in escrow. This being a platform where it's unlikely that anyone had a substantial amount just sitting there, I'm not sure that will have helped many people.

The timeline will be very interesting on the bolded point and they're clearly in full arse-covering mode. Player forum nuked, they've removed removed everything from their website except some garbage rules that I can show you were absolutely not the same until all of this. You can use the wayback machine to see that their rules uded to have almost no mention of the things on there today:


August 2020

The Rules | Football Index

How do you play Football Index? Find out the ins and outs, along with the game rules of the football stockmarket.

web.archive.org

Football Index Game Rules

It is very important that you read and understand these Game Rules before placing a Bet.

PLEASE BE AWARE: we periodically update these Game Rules from time to time, which may include updating the Dividend Table and/or changing the way we pay out Dividends. Such changes may have a material impact on your open Bets, and it may influence how you place Bets and/or otherwise use the Service.

PLEASE ALSO BE AWARE, we use an algorithm to determine Share price changes on the platform. From time to time, we may change our algorithm to accommodate changes in market dynamics and scale. This can affect the movements in the price of Shares, both positively and negatively. In making changes to our price change algorithm, we will always try to act in the best interests of the market as a whole.

You must also read and understand and agree to be bound by our Terms of Use before placing a Bet.

Unless defined in these Game Rules, capitalised words used in these Game Rules are defined in the Glossary.We also recommend you use our Academy to learn more about how to play Football Index.

All times and dates reference the time zone in force in London on any given date (GMT or BST as applicable).

Overview

Football Index is a gambling platform which operates like a stock market, allowing users (known as ‘Traders’) to place Bets on the future performance of footballers with real money (which we call buying ‘Shares’). Once you have bought one or more Shares in a footballer, you have the chance to win daily or monthly payouts based on that footballer’s future performance on the pitch or in the media (which we call ‘Dividends’).

Whilst you hold Shares in a footballer, you may have the option of cashing out your Bet at any time by ‘selling’ those Shares to the market (for either a profit or a loss, as further explained below).

Football Index is a licensed and regulated fixed-odds gambling product.

Today (this is literally all that is left of their website):

Football Index Game Rules​

It is very important that you read and understand these Game Rules before placing a Bet.

PLEASE BE AWARE:

• Your money is at risk when you place a Bet on Football Index. You may lose your Stake. There is no guarantee of winning any particular amount of Dividends in respect of Bets. Share prices may fall or rise.

• The Dividend Table will change from time to time. This will usually only occur during prescribed periods and will apply to open Bets as well as new Bets. The structure and level of Dividend set by us is primarily influenced by the volume of Shares being traded on the platform. If the volume of trading increases, it is more likely (but not certain) that the level of Dividend offered may be maintained or increase. However, if the volume of trading decreases, it is more likely (but not certain) that the level of Dividend offered may decrease. Please see clause 4 for more information. Any change in the Dividend is likely to impact Share prices.

• There are two categories of Dividends: Core Dividends and Promotional Dividends. We will only remove the Core Dividends in certain limited situations. Please see clause 4 of the Terms of Use for more information.

• The basis on which Dividends are awarded may change (e.g. the overall structure of or categories in our Dividend offering, adjustments to the match day scoring matrix, or footballer positional changes).

• You may not be able to cash-out your Bets at any particular time. Your ability to cash-out open Bets is influenced by the level of demand for Shares among other users on the platform. We do not buy back Shares.

• We may increase commission or the basis on which it is paid from time to time. Please see clause 4 of the Terms of Use for more information.

• We may add, remove or change product features and/or functionality. This may impact how or when you can place, or cash-out of, Bets and/or otherwise use the platform.

• Where we make any material changes that are to your detriment, we will give you at least 30 days’ advance notice by alerting you on the home page of this site and the app and/or by email.