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Englands Bowling Depth

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Based on today, shallow. Let's see how they respond before the knives are out.
 
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The 2 worst so far in this tournement have been the 2 experienced ones. Bresnan has been our best seamer, and our 2nd spinner hasn't been as econimical as usual. The problem is I can't see Anderson or Broad being dropped in a hurry and our only seam bowling back up is Shahzad. When you think we have Finn, Tremlett, Woakes and Plunkett sat on the sidelines in England you have to admit there is depth, just none of it is in the sub-continent at the moment.
 
Andy.SAFC said:
In ODIs it's a myth.

In test matches we have 6 seamers who can all take wickets and Swann.
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In test matches we have played Bangladesh, Pakistan and Australia, sides ranked 5th in the world and below

Darren Gough is saying exactly the same, they are all the same. We have played on conducive wickets against poor opposition.
 
In Anderson and Swann England have undisputably by modern standards 2 top class performers in test match cricket. In ODI cricket which is a lesser form of the game we have none.
 
rentaghost said:
In Anderson and Swann England have undisputably by modern standards 2 top class performers in test match cricket. In ODI cricket which is a lesser form of the game we have none.
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bollocks we do.

Lets wait until Sehwag and Sachin get hold of Jimmy this summer

What happened to Jimmy bowling well in India??
 
essex boy said:
bollocks we do.

Lets wait until Sehwag and Sachin get hold of Jimmy this summer

What happened to Jimmy bowling well in India??
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Two different sports. In India and test match cricket as a whole he can bowl with the new ball with slips and gullies early on invite the drive, test the patience of the batsman, he can bowl reverse swing in the later overs and he has proven his quality in both Australia and India two of the toughest places in world cricket.

In the lesser form of the game with one or no slips on flat pitches he isnt good enough. Interesting how you have often (rightly IMO) derided one day cricket as mickey mouse and irrelevant unless of course you can find an angle that suits your argument.
 
rentaghost said:
Two different sports. In India and test match cricket as a whole he can bowl with the new ball with slips and gullies early on invite the drive, test the patience of the batsman, he can bowl reverse swing in the later overs and he has proven his quality in both Australia and India two of the toughest places in world cricket.

In the lesser form of the game with one or no slips on flat pitches he isnt good enough. Interesting how you have often (rightly IMO) derided one day cricket as mickey mouse and irrelevant unless of course you can find an angle that suits your argument.
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I dont really get 50 over cricket anymore with 20/20 Il give you that.

However, I have repeatedly said stick our bowling on a flat deck against class batsman and they will get shown up and they have.
 
essex boy said:
In test matches we have played Bangladesh, Pakistan and Australia, sides ranked 5th in the world and below

Darren Gough is saying exactly the same, they are all the same. We have played on conducive wickets against poor opposition.
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This thread is about depth, not the quality because obviously we disagree on that. But we have 6 seamers who dont have much between them and hopefully we now actually have some variation in test matches, with Jimmy who can swing it, Finn, Broad and Tremlett who can bang it in, Bresnan who bowls a tight, consistent line and length and goes for very few runs and Shahzad who can wing it and reverse it later in the innings.

The problem is in ODIs these bowlers cant mix it up and bowl yorkers, slower balls and proper bouncers. Jimmy for example bowls the same in ODIs as he does in tests, on a length outside off stump, which when you've got 3 slips and 2 gullies this is economical and gets wickets, but with no slips it is easy to pick and hit, and most edges will fly for 4.

essex boy said:
bollocks we do.

Lets wait until Sehwag and Sachin get hold of Jimmy this summer

What happened to Jimmy bowling well in India??
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And if he doesnt then you will ramble on about green tops and overhead conditions.
 
Andy.SAFC said:
This thread is about depth, not the quality because obviously we disagree on that. But we have 6 seamers who dont have much between them and hopefully we now actually have some variation in test matches, with Jimmy who can swing it, Finn, Broad and Tremlett who can bang it in, Bresnan who bowls a tight, consistent line and length and goes for very few runs and Shahzad who can wing it and reverse it later in the innings.

The problem is in ODIs these bowlers cant mix it up and bowl yorkers, slower balls and proper bouncers. Jimmy for example bowls the same in ODIs as he does in tests, on a length outside off stump, which when you've got 3 slips and 2 gullies this is economical and gets wickets, but with no slips it is easy to pick and hit, and most edges will fly for 4.



And if he doesnt then you will ramble on about green tops and overhead conditions.
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When was the last time we beat one of the worlds top 4 in test cricket in a test series
 
essex boy said:
However, I have repeatedly said stick our bowling on a flat deck against class batsman and they will get shown up and they have.
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As will more or less everyone other than the very best bowlers. The pitches in this tournament have been made for hundreds and hundreds of runs, not for a fair contest between bat and ball.
 
essex boy said:
I dont really get 50 over cricket anymore with 20/20 Il give you that.

However, I have repeatedly said stick our bowling on a flat deck against class batsman and they will get shown up and they have.
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Not even class batsmen tbf. If the main guidelines for assessing a good bowler is how economical they can be by bowling on a flat pitch with no slips then I would agree Anderson is poor. However there lies the difference between ODI and test match cricket the latter being a test of the batsmans skill against the moving ball with attacking fields. This is where Anderson comes into his own whether or not he is bowling in India or Australia or against the West Indies in May under cloud laden skies.
 
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