England & Aus docked points

[mackembhoy]

There was a rain delay on the afternoon of day 3 and unspecified delay on the morning of day 1 according to Cricinfo.

England bowled 83 overs on day 1 and 7 on day 2. Australia bowled 72 on day 2, total 79. Australia bowled 33.4 overs and England 41 on day 3; total 74.

7 reviews might not take 2 hours, but fetching the ball back does. England hit 58 x 4s and 8 x 6s in their innings. That will eat into bowling time as well but I doubt anyone minded. It will also cause more frequent field changes as Australia tried to stem the flow of runs.

There is a load of context at Old Trafford that 90 opd blanks out.

Look at it another way. Assuming 1 min per turn around between overs leaves 45 mins to bowl. That means each over takes 3 minutes or each ball 30 seconds to achieve 15 oph. That might be an unrealistic ask in the modern game that pisses people off unnecessarily.

The only game that wasn't won was due toss massive loss of time to the weather.

I said We could have won more games.

I'm aware of what happened. I only missed day 5 of Edgbaston in the whole series.

Our over rate was 11 on day 3 at OT when we needed to win to try and claim back the ashes.

Was 78 overs bowled by the Aussies on day 2 at OT iirc too

No urgency whatsover from either side

 

[Mule]

I said We could have won more games.

I'm aware of what happened. I only missed day 5 of Edgbaston in the whole series.

Our over rate was 11 on day 3 at OT when we needed to win to try and claim back the ashes.

Was 78 overs bowled by the Aussies on day 2 at OT iirc too

No urgency whatsover from either side

We could have won one more game....and very nearly did, despite losing a day and a half of the match at OT.

On day 3, England bowled 29 overs after tea, so credit where it is due. When the batting team is not scoring and spinners are bowling, you can get the over rates up. But it's an unrealistic demand for faster bowlers, especially in a series as insanely compressed as this one.

Wrt urgency from either side, I'm not certain we watched the same series. It's been more exiting and entertaining than any I can remember. And but for the weather, it would have produced a positive result in every match. Whatever each team lacked in that slugfest, it was not a sense of urgency.

 

[Voice of fair play]

We could have won one more game....and very nearly did, despite losing a day and a half of the match at OT.

On day 3, England bowled 29 overs after tea, so credit where it is due. When the batting team is not scoring and spinners are bowling, you can get the over rates up. But it's an unrealistic demand for faster bowlers, especially in a series as insanely compressed as this one.

Wrt urgency from either side, I'm not certain we watched the same series. It's been more exiting and entertaining than any I can remember. And but for the weather, it would have produced a positive result in every match. Whatever each team lacked in that slugfest, it was not a sense of urgency.

With respect mate, I don’t think you grasping the difference between urgency and attacking cricket with the bat.

And bowling overs at a normal rate, it has already been pointed out the same bowlers in county cricket would bowl their overs quicker than they would in test cricket of same run ups, so all that is expected is the same.

Not sure why that is asking too much tbh

Anyone who has ever played cricket appreciate over rate quicker when spinners on, not sure why you stating the glaring obvious.

What people are saying is there is slow over rate and ridiculous slow over rate and the series was the former hence the punishments

 

[Mule]

What people are saying is there is slow over rate and ridiculous slow over rate and the series was the former hence the punishments

So 15 oph is fine but 12 oph is ridiculously slow? Slower, yes, but not ridiculously so.

With respect mate, I don’t think you grasping the difference between urgency and attacking cricket with the bat.

I am because they're linked. Attacking with the bat buys time to bowl. Especially when your strike bowlers are north of 35 and you need to protect them.

And bowling overs at a normal rate, it has already been pointed out the same bowlers in county cricket would bowl their overs quicker than they would in test cricket of same run ups, so all that is expected is the same.

Not sure why that is asking too much tbh

Because they're not bowling at test calibre batsmen in county cricket. I'd expect them to bowl more dot balls. Likewise, I'd expect them to need more requirement for top pace in a test than in a county game. Finally, the compression of this series is insane. Put those factors together and you begin to see why they might drop to 12 oph.

 

[Durhamfootman]

How did slow over rates adversely affect the series? None of the Ashes tests failed to reach a result. Even Old Trafford would have completed had the weather not intervened.

I've had this argument before..... everyone blamed the rain at OT for preventing an England win, but England bowled 83 overs on day 1 and not the 90. Then when Australia came out to bat on day 3 there were 52 overs available for England to bowl... they bowled 41. 18 overs not bowled and I haven't even thought about whether England might have bowled more than the 30 overs they did when play inexpectedly resumed on day 4.
Who knows whether England could have forced a result at OT had they bowled those missing overs, but they might have done (they took 4-11 in 4 overs in the next match). We'll never know, but they could have shown a lot more urgency about their bowling in a match where they knew the weather would get in the way.

 

[GordonMuchallNo1Fan]

There was a rain delay on the afternoon of day 3 and unspecified delay on the morning of day 1 according to Cricinfo.

England bowled 83 overs on day 1 and 7 on day 2. Australia bowled 72 on day 2, total 79. Australia bowled 33.4 overs and England 41 on day 3; total 74.

7 reviews might not take 2 hours, but fetching the ball back does. England hit 58 x 4s and 8 x 6s in their innings. That will eat into bowling time as well but I doubt anyone minded. It will also cause more frequent field changes as Australia tried to stem the flow of runs.

There is a load of context at Old Trafford that 90 opd blanks out.

Look at it another way. Assuming 1 min per turn around between overs leaves 45 mins to bowl. That means each over takes 3 minutes or each ball 30 seconds to achieve 15 oph. That might be an unrealistic ask in the modern game that pisses people off unnecessarily.

The only game that wasn't won was due toss massive loss of time to the weather.

So they were way short. There is no excuse for it and they played extra time and still failed to get the overs in. They need hitting with bigger fines and points deductions

 

[Durhamfootman]

They need hitting with bigger fines and points deductions

be careful what you wish for.... they'll probably give those points deductions to Durham

 

[Wayne The Punk]

be careful what you wish for.... they'll probably give those points deductions to Durham

I thought that, punish the captains county team

 

[Fleagle]

They were 30 overs down after the 3rd day of the Old Trafford test. That's poor.

More to the point over half those thirty were down to England. Which isn’t just poor it’s crackers. Every other thing England do is at least arguably about increasing their win loss ratio. But the one thing that is unarguably doing that is beyond them.

If the penalty of throwing away your slim chance of the Ashes doesn’t get a side to get a shift on nothing will. It’s a lost cause.

 

[LynchMob]

Aye I read something after saying it’s something to do with 160 overs.

Nasser Hussain has said basically they should bowl 30 overs per session. If they don’t, take it out of their lunch / tea

I said this in a previous thread, no grub until overs bowled!

 

[zebediah]

To make it entirely fair any hold ups by the batsmen should be taken into account, they often stop run ups, change gloves blah blah..
For this reason I say play the overs required in each session then take the break, shorten the break if need be.

 

[MustardAndOnions]

sorry like its a total farce that and maekes the world test championship completely and utterly pointless

 

[rentaghost]

sorry like its a total farce that and maekes the world test championship completely and utterly pointless

In fairness I don't think we are too bothered about the WTC. Firstly its playing our attacking brand, from that process they will expect to win cricket matches and if they get to a WTC final on the back of that then fair enough but I dont think its anything we are striving for. That's why the points deduction is nether here nor there.

 

[Carteron]

Personally I don't blame the bowlers whatsoever for it. They run themselves into the ground and the last thing I want to encourage is Mark Wood to rush through his over quicker just to bump the over rate up, and risk injury. The areas that need sorting for me are:

1) Pack in asking to change the ball every 5 overs
2) Clamp down on batters changing stuff every 10 mins. Once a session should be enough at drinks
3) Sort the areas behind the bowlers arm out, seems like something goes wrong every over with someone moving or an advert not flicking over
4) Speed the reviews up, shouldn't be rocket science for 80% of the reviews
5) Be stricter on subs, happy for bowlers to grab a shower and change their boots but shouldnt be allowed a sub fielder for it

 

[MustardAndOnions]

In fairness I don't think we are too bothered about the WTC. Firstly its playing our attacking brand, from that process they will expect to win cricket matches and if they get to a WTC final on the back of that then fair enough but I dont think its anything we are striving for. That's why the points deduction is nether here nor there.

I don’t agree. It makes it a bit of a joke competition. We will do well to get anywhere near the final now.

Australia only got more points as we batted so quickly so they couldn’t get penalized

 

[rentaghost]

I don’t agree. It makes it a bit of a joke competition. We will do well to get anywhere near the final now.

Australia only got more points as we batted so quickly so they couldn’t get penalized

It’s a joke competition anyway imo. If you are that focussed on winning at all costs to reach some grand final then that detracts from trying to play a great brand of cricket. India will crawl over broken glass to get there which leads to shit pitches etc. I just think the whole idea of it is flawed and goes against producing an entertaining game that attracts supporters.

 

[MustardAndOnions]

It’s a joke competition anyway imo. If you are that focussed on winning at all costs to reach some grand final then that detracts from trying to play a great brand of cricket. India will crawl over broken glass to get there which leads to shit pitches etc. I just think the whole idea of it is flawed and goes against producing an entertaining game that attracts supporters.

I think it’s vital the competition personally for giving any context to teams out side the big 3 for test cricket. Although I think they need to make the final like top 3 or with a decider.

I agree on some certainly on the pitches yeah. I kind of take india out of it as they’ll do what you want

I know over rates are poor but you can’t have one of the best series of all time having no impact on the flagship test competition because of it. I think it’s a farce. Any thing on over rates should impact the players during the game, breaks cut into etc

 

[mackembhoy]

I think it’s vital the competition personally for giving any context to teams out side the big 3 for test cricket. Although I think they need to make the final like top 3 or with a decider.

I agree on some certainly on the pitches yeah. I kind of take india out of it as they’ll do what you want

I know over rates are poor but you can’t have one of the best series of all time having no impact on the flagship test competition because of it. I think it’s a farce. Any thing on over rates should impact the players during the game, breaks cut into etc

Aye well they will need to change the rules and can't do that after the competition has already started. So points and fine is the punishment.

England don't give a fuck about the WTC, we saw that in the first one against Pakistan in that series in 2020 when they shook hands with loads of play left on day 5 in the final test.

The WTC is farcical anyway seeing as it goes off percentage and not just points. We've got more points than the West Indies(even with the deduction) who haven't won a single game.

 

[MustardAndOnions]

Aye well they will need to change the rules and can't do that after the competition has already started. So points and fine is the punishment.

England don't give a fuck about the WTC, we saw that in the first one against Pakistan in that series in 2020 when they shook hands with loads of play left on day 5 in the final test.

The WTC is farcical anyway seeing as it goes off percentage and not just points. We've got more points than the West Indies(even with the deduction) who haven't won a single game.

They’ll want to be in the final like, it’s a great event, it works brilliantly in England

It’s not perfect but least it’s something

If we don’t try someit then some countries will literally just stop playing test cricket within the next 5 years

I don’t get your last point, why wouldn’t we above them? They haven’t won a game

 

[mackembhoy]

They’ll want to be in the final like, it’s a great event, it works brilliantly in England

It’s not perfect but least it’s something

If we don’t try someit then some countries will literally just stop playing test cricket within the next 5 years

I don’t get your last point, why wouldn’t we above them? They haven’t won a game

We're below the Windies look at the table

You must be logged on to see external links