Ellis Short

[naughtynose]

I really don't know how to judge Short, there doesn't seem to be any middle ground throughout his tenure, mainly lows but some unbelievable highs. Longest stay in the top division but not keeping our better players and replacing them with inferior ones season after season.

He, Congerton or whoever needs to get the right manager for us in the summer and back them. Assuming we stay up, which I actually think we will, our starting point has to be turning the SOL into a fortress again. It's embarrassing how garbage we've been at home for over 2 years now.

 

[sksk3021]

No mate thats not what I want at all. But do you believe that its good business sense to give a 33yr old man a two year contract if true? I want Short as custodian of our club to look at things like this and realise these decisions have us in this mess to start with. Football wise we are being run or at the least Short is being ill advised by a bunch of chancers now I say that lightly as we have some very well educated people rrunning the club but unfortunately looking from the outside to the inside not many if any no howw to run a PL football club.

It's an impossible question to answer as nobody on here has a clue what that contract includes. Is have no problem if he is here for two years helping to pass on his vast experience to a couple of young defenders, with a wage which more accurately reflects that.
Hopefully we can bring in a good manager in the summer and start to make some progress.

 

[DisillusionedOldGit]

Whos the alternative then? Do you think people are queing up to purchase Sunderland AFC? Have you read our financial results of the past 5 seasons.

Our financial results are crap because Short is crap , obviously .

 

[Deleted member 611]

We've had continued Premier League football for 8 seasons. As much as people don't like it being mentioned, we had 10th place finish with Bruce. These are all huge positives compared the past 50 years. I'm constantly reminded by my father that we played a hell of a long time in the second tier and even third tier of football in that time.

He's tried setting the club up to sustain itself for the long run without having to go begging to the owner for cash if it needs be.

I wouldn't put it as a positive, but he's actually largely acted with what the fans have wanted. Now at this point I'd have disagreed with his actions. I feel he should stuck to the manager a couple of times to see their time out. There's a difference between responsibility and blame. He's hired managers who have had good footballing track records but he's not let them see the job through when it looks like we might go down. What I'd say he has failed to do is find someone trustworthy to deal with transfers. He obviously want to give the DOF model a go but we've appalling in that department. Defoe aside, our transfer windows have shocking since Di Canio. That's the main reason we're in the situation we're in. The players aren't good enough, and the footballing heads aren't given the time to look at the medium term let alone the long term.

I don't think he's free from any responsibility at all, but for people to call him a "cancer" is really wide of the mark.

Who else would we have in instead? Who or what's the alternative? No one has provided an answer to that question.

We've had continued Premier League football for 8 seasons - which dates back to before Ellis Short's time anywhere near the football club - but it's been absolutely awful stuff for almost all of his time here. There has been no progression on the field under Ellis Short - we are worse than when he got here - and saddled with a lot more debt. I've been supporting SAFC for 40 years, and the last three seasons have been the most consistently dull, joyless football I have witnessed in that time. It hasn't even worked as a business model because we are still making a bloody loss.

He's tried setting up the club to be financially sustainable? You reckon that is a positive when he has completely failed to achieve that?

You're completely missing the point on managers. We have appointed experienced English managers with a track record of solid midtable Premier League finishes. We have appointed experienced managers with outstanding CVs, who have won stacks of trophies. We have appointed an Italian lunatic. We have appointed an up and coming coach. We have appointed an experienced manager who has won stacks of trophies, managed all over the world, and got to the Quarter Finals of the World Cup. And every one of them has failed. So at what point does the penny drop that the problem is not the managers, it runs far deeper than that - and Ellis Short, and his f***ing shite appointments, are the problem?

I've no idea who wants to buy a Premier League club, none at all. That's not my problem. I just know that Ellis Short has been terrible for this club - first of all wasting an opportunity to build on what we had, and now it's going to get far worse before it gets better when the basket case of a football team gets relegated, and then we'll see how committed to the club the Texan hedge fund billionaire with no connections to football or the area is.

 

[Thomas Hearns]

No mate thats not what I want at all. But do you believe that its good business sense to give a 33yr old man a two year contract if true? I want Short as custodian of our club to look at things like this and realise these decisions have us in this mess to start with. Football wise we are being run or at the least Short is being ill advised by a bunch of chancers now I say that lightly as we have some very well educated people rrunning the club but unfortunately looking from the outside to the inside not many if any no howw to run a PL football club.

Osheasey was probably given a two year contract because it was cheaper than bringing in a younger better player. I am afraid this has been the modus operandi since Short decided selling Bent and Co was the direction he wanted to take the football club

 

[safc_grindon]

I'll continue to discuss whatever I like. Whether we can find a new owner or not he deserves criticism.

He is not managing the club properly. Regardless of his backing we have yet to make a profit, instead squandering money on awful players. Appointing average managers and then having to pay off their contracts. The academy too is not helping to support the first team.

Short may be an owner, he may not have a hands on role but he is the one who appoints the board members to run our club and they too are failing us.


The money is pointless if it's wasted on shite players and average managers.

You're arguing like a petulant kid. As are most on here who seemed to think there's a choice.

The money keeps the club afloat. It stops us becoming a Leeds, or even a Portsmouth. it's given us premier league football for eight seasons, however shite we've been. How can you not see that?

Now, you're perfectly within your rights to question how the club's run, or the management, or the team, or any of those things. And yes, you're right, we've bought shit players, and average managers that needed paying off. But do you know how we did that? WITH HIS MONEY.

You put your money in - or find someone that will - and we have a real alternative. Then you can ask him to go. But until then, there is no choice. You could get the bedsheets and the hashtags out, like the Mags - but unless they have someone bloody rich (and probably a bit stupid with it) hidden in Steve Raith's coffin, they're in the same boat too.

 

[sksk3021]

We've had continued Premier League football for 8 seasons - which dates back to before Ellis Short's time anywhere near the football club - but it's been absolutely awful stuff for almost all of his time here. There has been no progression on the field under Ellis Short - we are worse than when he got here - and saddled with a lot more debt. I've been supporting SAFC for 40 years, and the last three seasons have been the most consistently dull, joyless football I have witnessed in that time. It hasn't even worked as a business model because we are still making a bloody loss.

He's tried setting up the club to be financially sustainable? You reckon that is a positive when he has completely failed to achieve that?

You're completely missing the point on managers. We have appointed experienced English managers with a track record of solid midtable Premier League finishes. We have appointed experienced managers with outstanding CVs, who have won stacks of trophies. We have appointed an Italian lunatic. We have appointed an up and coming coach. We have appointed an experienced manager who has won stacks of trophies, managed all over the world, and got to the Quarter Finals of the World Cup. And every one of them has failed. So at what point does the penny drop that the problem is not the managers, it runs far deeper than that - and Ellis Short, and his f***ing shite appointments, are the problem?

I've no idea who wants to buy a Premier League club, none at all. That's not my problem. I just know that Ellis Short has been terrible for this club - first of all wasting an opportunity to build on what we had, and now it's going to get far worse before it gets better when the basket case of a football team gets relegated, and then we'll see how committed to the club the Texan hedge fund billionaire with no connections to football or the area is.

Isn't it one season before he got involved, in 2008 before taking over in 2009.
Can't agree about the joyless dull football it's been shite no doubt, but worse than Buxton, butcher, 15 points, 19 points? Low yardsticks but it hasn't been as bad as many points in our recent history.
We have also had a few real highlights over the last couple of seasons as well.

I have to agree that the business model hasn't worked at all, In the main because our recruitment strategy has been utterly appalling, along with changing managers every few months. It's going to take someone a while but we have exhausted most options.

I really don't know where we go from here, are we likely to find a buyer for sunderland who has hundreds of millions to throw away? Can short turn it round, he seems to be a decent bloke. Is there even any point? What's the best we are likely to get? 10th every year seasons over by January? Sounds shit.

 

[Deleted member 611]

Isn't it one season before he got involved, in 2008 before taking over in 2009.
Can't agree about the joyless dull football it's been shite no doubt, but worse than Buxton, butcher, 15 points, 19 points? Low yardsticks but it hasn't been as bad as many points in our recent history.
We have also had a few real highlights over the last couple of seasons as well.

I have to agree that the business model hasn't worked at all, In the main because our recruitment strategy has been utterly appalling, along with changing managers every few months. It's going to take someone a while but we have exhausted most options.

I really don't know where we go from here, are we likely to find a buyer for sunderland who has hundreds of millions to throw away? Can short turn it round, he seems to be a decent bloke. Is there even any point? What's the best we are likely to get? 10th every year seasons over by January? Sounds shit.

I said consistently joyless in the last three years. After the 15 point and 19 point seasons, we at least had the respite of a promotion season. The last three years in particular have been terrible.

 

[Thomas Hearns]

Exactly and people have the choice to stop going if they don't like the way he is running the football club

 

[sksk3021]

I said consistently joyless in the last three years. After the 15 point and 19 point seasons, we at least had the respite of a promotion season. The last three years in particular have been terrible.

Tbh the championship under McCarthy was absolute crap as well despite us doing well.
It would be a lot easier to look back over the last 30 years and say when it hasn't been pretty joyless for the most part.
In the last couple of seasons despite the absolute dross in general I have probably had a few of my favourite moments as a fan.

 

[Lord Alfred]

That Hutchinson gets away with murder. How doesn't he get more flack? His haircut alone brings shame on the club.

Your support of the regime is admirable mate......wish i could tolerate failure as well as you do. You'll be telling me next that you enjoyed your day out yesterday.

 

[Thomas Hearns]

Tbh the championship under McCarthy was absolute crap as well despite us doing well.
It would be a lot easier to look back over the last 30 years and say when it hasn't been pretty joyless for the most part.
In the last couple of seasons despite the absolute dross in general I have probably had a few of my favourite moments as a fan.

Agree Murray was in charge then though not Short

 

[Deleted member 611]

Tbh the championship under McCarthy was absolute crap as well despite us doing well.
It would be a lot easier to look back over the last 30 years and say when it hasn't been pretty joyless for the most part.
In the last couple of seasons despite the absolute dross in general I have probably had a few of my favourite moments as a fan.

Disagree - I quite enjoyed the Championship season under McCarthy, I know we weren't great, and knew we would struggle in the Premier League, but every week I saw a team in red and white working as hard for the team and the club, despite their limitations. I haven't seen that in years, except when the current bunch are playing Newcastle / get scared of relegation.

 

[Wizards Sleeve]

What's the best we are likely to get? 10th every year seasons over by January? Sounds shit.

This is the problem with the premier league. Teams aspire to achieve this mediocrity and it is dull as fuck. No joy there at all.

 

[Lord Alfred]

He must think with his heart with football and brain in the normal business world cause he is far too easily conned in football, firstly for buying us and then given a f***ing agent a high and important role in the club

I'd love to know who he's been getting advice from these last couple of years.

 

[MCFC]

We've had continued Premier League football for 8 seasons - which dates back to before Ellis Short's time anywhere near the football club - but it's been absolutely awful stuff for almost all of his time here. There has been no progression on the field under Ellis Short - we are worse than when he got here - and saddled with a lot more debt. I've been supporting SAFC for 40 years, and the last three seasons have been the most consistently dull, joyless football I have witnessed in that time. It hasn't even worked as a business model because we are still making a bloody loss.

He's tried setting up the club to be financially sustainable? You reckon that is a positive when he has completely failed to achieve that?

You're completely missing the point on managers. We have appointed experienced English managers with a track record of solid midtable Premier League finishes. We have appointed experienced managers with outstanding CVs, who have won stacks of trophies. We have appointed an Italian lunatic. We have appointed an up and coming coach. We have appointed an experienced manager who has won stacks of trophies, managed all over the world, and got to the Quarter Finals of the World Cup. And every one of them has failed. So at what point does the penny drop that the problem is not the managers, it runs far deeper than that - and Ellis Short, and his f***ing shite appointments, are the problem?

I've no idea who wants to buy a Premier League club, none at all. That's not my problem. I just know that Ellis Short has been terrible for this club - first of all wasting an opportunity to build on what we had, and now it's going to get far worse before it gets better when the basket case of a football team gets relegated, and then we'll see how committed to the club the Texan hedge fund billionaire with no connections to football or the area is.

Given the continuing bitterness among the NUFC fans.. How come Short is regarded as a fairly okeyish owner while Ashley is vilified, despite achiving several goals that SAFC don´t live up to?
Is it just the fact that Ashley makes money while Short cover losses?

 

[10 Gary Rowells]

Your support of the regime is admirable mate......wish i could tolerate failure as well as you do. You'll be telling me next that you enjoyed your day out yesterday.

I certainly found some of the defending laughable. Having bought my season tickets I'll be there next season - getting angry about Ellis Short or desperately dissecting the situation to apportion blame is pointless to me.

 

[Lord Alfred]

This is the problem with the premier league. Teams aspire to achieve this mediocrity and it is dull as fuck. No joy there at all.

See, i don't understand this.......why did performances tail off when O'Neill had us safe in April. I really don't understand why professional footballers would think they've done enough for the season and make little attempt to win any game subsequently. The answer can only be that we employ the wrong types on a consistent basis.

 

[dennis longhorn]

We've had continued Premier League football for 8 seasons. As much as people don't like it being mentioned, we had 10th place finish with Bruce. These are all huge positives compared the past 50 years. I'm constantly reminded by my father that we played a hell of a long time in the second tier and even third tier of football in that time.

He's tried setting the club up to sustain itself for the long run without having to go begging to the owner for cash if it needs be.

I wouldn't put it as a positive, but he's actually largely acted with what the fans have wanted. Now at this point I'd have disagreed with his actions. I feel he should stuck to the manager a couple of times to see their time out. There's a difference between responsibility and blame. He's hired managers who have had good footballing track records but he's not let them see the job through when it looks like we might go down. What I'd say he has failed to do is find someone trustworthy to deal with transfers. He obviously want to give the DOF model a go but we've appalling in that department. Defoe aside, our transfer windows have shocking since Di Canio. That's the main reason we're in the situation we're in. The players aren't good enough, and the footballing heads aren't given the time to look at the medium term let alone the long term.

I don't think he's free from any responsibility at all, but for people to call him a "cancer" is really wide of the mark.

Who else would we have in instead? Who or what's the alternative? No one has provided an answer to that question.

This so called DOF Congerton brings Defoe in in January he obviously knows his stuff he can spot a player this fella not many had heard of him nor the rest that came through the door in the summer, the blokes a chancer I despair at the people running our club we are truly in the mire and nothing will change unless there is change in the boardroom.

 

[gipetto]

Now, you're perfectly within your rights to question how the club's run, or the management, or the team, or any of those things. And yes, you're right, we've bought shit players, and average managers that needed paying off. But do you know how we did that? WITH HIS MONEY.

Petulant kid? I've never seen a kid put an argument across as well as mine. You must be comparing me to a highly intelligent kid if that's the case.

Your second paragraph supports my view and dilutes your own argument.

The majority of money supporting this club is from TV revenue and we are still in considerable debt. We're a poorly run club at present with or without Short's money. If we are relegated (which is looking highly likely) after being promised by Short that "relegation was a thing of the past" it his down to him. He must take responsibility for that.