Do you ever worry?

[chriswallace85]

Eloquently put. You express my feelings exactly.
I hate French/German (and some Italian) football for its fake passion; its bland choreographed crowd 'dances'; its megaphone chants; they have drums ffs!!!; the array of massive flags getting in the way; boo-ing/whistling when the opposition have the ball etc. But most of all I despise the fact that they are not there to pay attention to the actual game in front of them. I'm old enough to remember the Roker Roar, and the crowd at the SoL still has something of that about it. 40,000-odd pairs of eyes following the same moves; their voices reacting to the same action on the pitch; the gasps admiration when a player does something stunning (Enzo leaving two Chelsea 'defenders' floundering!) and of course the 'limbs' when we score! It has a spine-tingling energy that forms the fundamental core of the 12th man, and it is so far removed from a bunch of 'ultras' pissing about trying to impress themselves. "F*ck the football, I know the songs and I've got the merch and I can do the Poznan". Idiots!
I thank the Ancestors for a culture that worships football, not cheap gimmicks. We are all Lads!
Regarding our ownership, I am constantly impressed at the way they quietly go about their business, be it transfers out of the blue, commercial improvements (especially in the light of SCR) and steady matchday improvements at the SoL. Some feathers may have to be ruffled along the way, but that is the price of progress.

Exactly. It's the ebb and flow that makes it. Sure it can go quiet and flat at times, but that's just football. That's when you rely on the players to wake you up. And that's when it gets exciting. 4-0 down at home to Forest, and the lads are getting stuck in and giving it a go, and fuck me if the crowd don't respond. That's a real football club.

I was reading some

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. "What gets the crowds going her is commitment, team spirit, a hard tackle a la Trai Hume." And he's right. It's always been the case. That's why we've taken characters like Joe Bolton, Kevin Ball and Lee Cattermole to our hearts over the years. And the club know that.

People have questioned the inclusion of Trai in the side at times this season. I've questioned it. But the reason's clear. He gives you graft, commitment, and those HUUUUME moments. And that can be a big thing in the sway of a football match.

 

[thewand73]

That the club ownership is so ruthless, so relentless (to use their own term) to deliver success that

1. They will alienate huge numbers of loyal supporters by a. Pricing them out of the SOL b. Turfing supporters out of their seats they have sat in for decades c. making demands that season ticket holders buy Europe / Domestic Cup Tickets at inflated prices d. Largely remove concession pricing e. Kill the community feel and heritage of the club of generations of families supporting the club.

2. They will sell the club at the first opportunity to make a huge gain leaving us at the mercy of Chelsea like owners

3. Thst this is all about money rather than glory

These are consequences and experiences fans of other clubs have had.

One of the things I always find strange is how the owners don’t ever come out and spell out their vision for the club and how they are going to achieve it.

I watched the interim CEO being interviewed and he said all the right things but did he mean it, are we all a bit gullible lapping up all the positive engaging PR.

They are bloody good, bloody clever and done bloody well. But does anyone worry they might lose their club as they know it.

Which club can we hope we will emulate to have what is success but also ensures that the club is primarily for the people and most importantly not the fan who watches on TV but the one who attends rain , hail and shine.

Bob Murray did everything for the fans, not himself, but delivered limited success.

Is the future for us or despite us ??? Will success be worth it.

Only really interested in views of people who actually go to games … for anyone else what do they care…. And there’s the rub. 40000 people may be sensitive to change but for millions we are just performing seals creating an atmosphere and feeding their entertainment.

Do we feel German football is more wholesome more in tune with supporters?

I think Chelsea, Mags, West Ham, Man Utd have all been destroyed as clubs.
Daft as it might sound I am glad I don’t support Man City, I think it’s lost its soul.
Probably only Liverpool has kept in touch with its roots. Can we do that?

​

 

[Number 6]

That the club ownership is so ruthless, so relentless (to use their own term) to deliver success that

1. They will alienate huge numbers of loyal supporters by a. Pricing them out of the SOL b. Turfing supporters out of their seats they have sat in for decades c. making demands that season ticket holders buy Europe / Domestic Cup Tickets at inflated prices d. Largely remove concession pricing e. Kill the community feel and heritage of the club of generations of families supporting the club.

2. They will sell the club at the first opportunity to make a huge gain leaving us at the mercy of Chelsea like owners

3. Thst this is all about money rather than glory

These are consequences and experiences fans of other clubs have had.

One of the things I always find strange is how the owners don’t ever come out and spell out their vision for the club and how they are going to achieve it.

I watched the interim CEO being interviewed and he said all the right things but did he mean it, are we all a bit gullible lapping up all the positive engaging PR.

They are bloody good, bloody clever and done bloody well. But does anyone worry they might lose their club as they know it.

Which club can we hope we will emulate to have what is success but also ensures that the club is primarily for the people and most importantly not the fan who watches on TV but the one who attends rain , hail and shine.

Bob Murray did everything for the fans, not himself, but delivered limited success.

Is the future for us or despite us ??? Will success be worth it.

Only really interested in views of people who actually go to games … for anyone else what do they care…. And there’s the rub. 40000 people may be sensitive to change but for millions we are just performing seals creating an atmosphere and feeding their entertainment.

Do we feel German football is more wholesome more in tune with supporters?

I think Chelsea, Mags, West Ham, Man Utd have all been destroyed as clubs.
Daft as it might sound I am glad I don’t support Man City, I think it’s lost its soul.
Probably only Liverpool has kept in touch with its roots. Can we do that?

Wow. You sound like the kind of bloke that would find something to complain about if you won the lottery

 

[Happy_Layabout]

Wew are as good as we are because we have

KLD and RLB and Xhaka.

It's a delicate model. Stuff changes in football.

The worry is we can't rebuild it when/if it changes

 

[Black Cattery]

That the club ownership is so ruthless, so relentless (to use their own term) to deliver success that

1. They will alienate huge numbers of loyal supporters by a. Pricing them out of the SOL b. Turfing supporters out of their seats they have sat in for decades c. making demands that season ticket holders buy Europe / Domestic Cup Tickets at inflated prices d. Largely remove concession pricing e. Kill the community feel and heritage of the club of generations of families supporting the club.

2. They will sell the club at the first opportunity to make a huge gain leaving us at the mercy of Chelsea like owners

3. Thst this is all about money rather than glory

These are consequences and experiences fans of other clubs have had.

One of the things I always find strange is how the owners don’t ever come out and spell out their vision for the club and how they are going to achieve it.

I watched the interim CEO being interviewed and he said all the right things but did he mean it, are we all a bit gullible lapping up all the positive engaging PR.

They are bloody good, bloody clever and done bloody well. But does anyone worry they might lose their club as they know it.

Which club can we hope we will emulate to have what is success but also ensures that the club is primarily for the people and most importantly not the fan who watches on TV but the one who attends rain , hail and shine.

Bob Murray did everything for the fans, not himself, but delivered limited success.

Is the future for us or despite us ??? Will success be worth it.

Only really interested in views of people who actually go to games … for anyone else what do they care…. And there’s the rub. 40000 people may be sensitive to change but for millions we are just performing seals creating an atmosphere and feeding their entertainment.

Do we feel German football is more wholesome more in tune with supporters?

I think Chelsea, Mags, West Ham, Man Utd have all been destroyed as clubs.
Daft as it might sound I am glad I don’t support Man City, I think it’s lost its soul.
Probably only Liverpool has kept in touch with its roots. Can we do that?

 

[living in hope]

That the club ownership is so ruthless, so relentless (to use their own term) to deliver success that

1. They will alienate huge numbers of loyal supporters by a. Pricing them out of the SOL b. Turfing supporters out of their seats they have sat in for decades c. making demands that season ticket holders buy Europe / Domestic Cup Tickets at inflated prices d. Largely remove concession pricing e. Kill the community feel and heritage of the club of generations of families supporting the club.

2. They will sell the club at the first opportunity to make a huge gain leaving us at the mercy of Chelsea like owners

3. Thst this is all about money rather than glory

These are consequences and experiences fans of other clubs have had.

One of the things I always find strange is how the owners don’t ever come out and spell out their vision for the club and how they are going to achieve it.

I watched the interim CEO being interviewed and he said all the right things but did he mean it, are we all a bit gullible lapping up all the positive engaging PR.

They are bloody good, bloody clever and done bloody well. But does anyone worry they might lose their club as they know it.

Which club can we hope we will emulate to have what is success but also ensures that the club is primarily for the people and most importantly not the fan who watches on TV but the one who attends rain , hail and shine.

Bob Murray did everything for the fans, not himself, but delivered limited success.

Is the future for us or despite us ??? Will success be worth it.

Only really interested in views of people who actually go to games … for anyone else what do they care…. And there’s the rub. 40000 people may be sensitive to change but for millions we are just performing seals creating an atmosphere and feeding their entertainment.

Do we feel German football is more wholesome more in tune with supporters?

I think Chelsea, Mags, West Ham, Man Utd have all been destroyed as clubs.
Daft as it might sound I am glad I don’t support Man City, I think it’s lost its soul.
Probably only Liverpool has kept in touch with its roots. Can we do that?

Why worry.

 

[Chewit]

This is a bit of a leap mind, dear me.

I think you need to calm down a bit.

We will see

Eloquently put. You express my feelings exactly.
I hate French/German (and some Italian) football for its fake passion; its bland choreographed crowd 'dances'; its megaphone chants; they have drums ffs!!!; the array of massive flags getting in the way; boo-ing/whistling when the opposition have the ball etc. But most of all I despise the fact that they are not there to pay attention to the actual game in front of them. I'm old enough to remember the Roker Roar, and the crowd at the SoL still has something of that about it. 40,000-odd pairs of eyes following the same moves; their voices reacting to the same action on the pitch; the gasps admiration when a player does something stunning (Enzo leaving two Chelsea 'defenders' floundering!) and of course the 'limbs' when we score! It has a spine-tingling energy that forms the fundamental core of the 12th man, and it is so far removed from a bunch of 'ultras' pissing about trying to impress themselves. "F*ck the football, I know the songs and I've got the merch and I can do the Poznan". Idiots!
I thank the Ancestors for a culture that worships football, not cheap gimmicks. We are all Lads!
Regarding our ownership, I am constantly impressed at the way they quietly go about their business, be it transfers out of the blue, commercial improvements (especially in the light of SCR) and steady matchday improvements at the SoL. Some feathers may have to be ruffled along the way, but that is the price of progress.

There is is a hell of a lot to protect in what you describe there…. Unless you think people in premium seats create atmosphere

I think too many people think that the club is a community organisation rather than a global business (or at least that's what they are trying to be).

We are trying to maintain a position at the very top tables of professional sport globally, and push into the upper eschelons of even that. It costs money to watch elite performers and there is a queue round the block of people who will pay if you don't want to.

There is obviously a balance to be struck as keeping supporters reasonably happy is important to British football culture - but it is a business and needs to be run in a business like fashion.

We have the emotional investment but it is the owners with financial skin in the game. Look at Chansiri, he's walking away from Wednesday something like £150m lighter from his own personal wealth and that is the risk that the owners are taking that they can get it right.

Getting a bit sick of people who don't live in the real world pissing and twisting about seats, prices, ticket office etc.

I'm all for pushing back against absolute piss takes but loads of moans come from a sense that they are entitled to watch every game, exactly how they want to, for the team to be performing and at bargain prices.

Let the dogs abuse commence.

You are fundamentally wrong in your first sentence which means everything that follows it is.
Even the club itself acknowledges that Sunderland is a community institution, that the brand they want to export is the identity created by the fans and their heritage. They say it themselves just read the last minutes of the consultation meeting and listen to the CEOs interviews.

The danger is they lose sight of that in their quest to maximise revenue, they misjudge the sweet spot between supply and demand and lose perpetual fan engagement.

You sound like a glory fan who follows the club via TV and socials and you don’t understand why the club had the support it did in the third and second divisions…. The magic dust is the fans, these are not just any fans.

Wow. You sound like the kind of bloke that would find something to complain about if you won the lottery

Preserve essence of what is Sunderland AFC is more important than winning the lottery

I think German football's a bit shit and the whole fan experience a bit of a facade to be honest.

Reasons being...

Bayern Munich's dominance. I know Leverkusen won a league. I know Dortmund have won the league. But come on, Bayern has won 16 of the last 20.

I look at German fans in big European games. Behind the goals they're constantly waving these humongous flags, and there's loads of them. Bouncing up and down. Winning, losing or drawing, there they are. Bayern fans. Dortmund fans. Freiburg fans. But are any of them stopping for a split second to actually watch the match? Imagine being in the biggest game of your club's history and you're stood behind some twat with a flag? I'd be livid. It's just so detached from the game itself. It'll never, ever compete with the swelling of tension and the unbridled outbursts of passion and raw emotion that we Sunderland supporters have experienced several times over the past couple of years.. Ballard, Mayenda, Watson, Brobbey etc...

I went to a Hamburg game about ten years ago. End of the season, relegation threatened, and they had to beat Schalke to qualify for the relegation play-off. It was a bit of an experience getting the S-Bahn over and walking to the ground with the fans, but the stadium and the match itself I thought was a damp squib. The atmosphere was just so choregraphed it was crap. Someone with a megaphone facing the crowd singing some Twisted Sister inspired chant throughout. The aforementioned flag waving and bouncing about. It was just so saccharine. So fake. When Hamburg scored - twice - it barely even registered. And this is a huge game. We walked out.

Maybe football's so cheap over there because it has to be.


Our footballing pyramid is unlike any other in the world. Our culture is intertwined with our football clubs. Our clubs are the people, and no ownership group can ever change that. The better owners tap into that.

When were crap, when Donald and Methven were still about, when KLD was new and we didn't know what to make of him, when we looked like we were going nowhere ever again, that's when I used to think a vision or a 5 year plan would be useful to give assurances to the fans. To give us some idea and timescale on ending the nightmare we were in. But even then, it could easily have been lip service and empty promises. Those were worrying times. Dark times.

Nowadays, I don't think they should.

It doesn't really serve anybody well to do so.

If they communicate it to the fans and fall short, then it becomes a stick for us to beat them with.

Communicate it to the world at large and you could end up with egg on your face, and your competition puts up barriers. You don't tell the world how you're going to conquer it.

Keep your cards close to your chest, review internally, and let the quiet, steady progression speak for itself.

The phase 1 5 year plan was never explicitly mentioned 'til it was achieved, and ahead of schedule. That's impressive. Just enjoy the ride and see what else they've got up their sleeves.

This is the most exciting time to be a Sunderland supporter since the spring of 1973, and it's already lasting a damn sight longer.

If it all goes tits up, then it all goes tits up. We've been there before. Why worry, about a thing? We'll still be here. Sunderland AFC, is gonna be alright.

Your first post there was very interesting and insightful and is a great response to the question.

You are clearly agreeing we need to protect the unbridled outbursts and raw passion to quote you. You don’t do that by giving people seats with a cushion and charging them 1500 pounds … and kicking out life long supporters…it will kill the atmosphere and support as we know it.
By all means extend the stadium to create more hospitality but don’t dilute the passion… we will not be the special place we are then