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County v University

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brandon

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Looking at the latest scores on the Beeb website it brings me to ask - is there really any point of the counties doing this???

Have to say, if I was Durham boss I'd probably just send the 2's to play the Uni and schedule a 3-day friendly against a Second Division County.......

Not very competitive is it -
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Unless you want to use it for your players to get some confidence??
 

They are just warm ups but i think they make them FC so that the counties put out their first team.

We rolled the Durham Uni lads for 19 a couple of seasons back.
 
Aidan11 said:
They are just warm ups but i think they make them FC so that the counties put out their first team.

We rolled the Durham Uni lads for 19 a couple of seasons back.
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Yeah 19 all out, which is kind of my point. A few of today's Uni innings were for double figures totals, if you look through the records there's a lot of players have their Highest Score or Best Bowling figures against Uni's and in terms of a workout - it can't be that rewarding, preparation wise.
 
Fitness workouts are good, but non should count as 1st class games

Sorry stewies
 
Don't know what has happened to the Durham University side over the past 5 or 6 years, they have been really poor and had very few players actually on county staffs. It might have something to do with most England u19 cricketers these days by pass university and go straight into pro county cricket.
 
Aren't we missing the point of these games? My understanding was that the University Centres of Excellence were given First Class status to give potential young players more exposure to quality opposition. Throughout the 80s and 90s a lot of young players came through the University system, and I believe this was starting to tail off with counties signing kids up at such a young age, getting them signed up by 16/17 before they could even consider further education.

At least with this format, kids are able to get a university education, without giving up on a professional cricket career. If they can get into one of these establishments they can study, whilst still being exposed to quality opposition 6 or 7 times a season. They are also effectively in the shop window as impress in these games and the county teams are already there watching you. Surely it is also a chance for young county players to get the odd first class game and maybe make a few/take a few wickets.

Granted, there are some 1-sided games, probably magnified at this time of year with not only facing better bowlers, but also extremely favourable bowling conditions. I do feel however that the purpose of them is not to give Gareth Breese a knock in between games, but to help the universities themselves.
 
Carteron said:
Aren't we missing the point of these games? My understanding was that the University Centres of Excellence were given First Class status to give potential young players more exposure to quality opposition. Throughout the 80s and 90s a lot of young players came through the University system, and I believe this was starting to tail off with counties signing kids up at such a young age, getting them signed up by 16/17 before they could even consider further education.

At least with this format, kids are able to get a university education, without giving up on a professional cricket career. If they can get into one of these establishments they can study, whilst still being exposed to quality opposition 6 or 7 times a season. They are also effectively in the shop window as impress in these games and the county teams are already there watching you. Surely it is also a chance for young county players to get the odd first class game and maybe make a few/take a few wickets.

Granted, there are some 1-sided games, probably magnified at this time of year with not only facing better bowlers, but also extremely favourable bowling conditions. I do feel however that the purpose of them is not to give Gareth Breese a knock in between games, but to help the universities themselves.
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Feel the University MCCU system is far from perfect but it does give the brighter cricketers the opportunity to further their education whilst improving their cricket.
The sad part, to me, is the relationship between DCCC and Durham University.
No young cricketer, from Durham, has gone to Durham University, and no-one has come directly from Durham University to DCCC.
A few years ago, Richard Coughtrie, the academy and second team keeper at Durham had to leave to attend Oxford MCCU. During his time there he started to play for Gloucester, ending up with a two year pro deal after graduation. Why ?
Most MCCU's have relationships with local Counties over and above friendlies and use of grounds. Durham do not appear to have this level of cooperation.
A rumour, some years ago, was that the respective coaches did not "see eye to eye" ?
Dan Hodgson, a Durham youth player, attended Leeds/Bradford MCCU and has ended up contracted to Yorkshire.
 
badger55 said:
Feel the University MCCU system is far from perfect but it does give the brighter cricketers the opportunity to further their education whilst improving their cricket.
The sad part, to me, is the relationship between DCCC and Durham University.
No young cricketer, from Durham, has gone to Durham University, and no-one has come directly from Durham University to DCCC.
A few years ago, Richard Coughtrie, the academy and second team keeper at Durham had to leave to attend Oxford MCCU. During his time there he started to play for Gloucester, ending up with a two year pro deal after graduation. Why ?
Most MCCU's have relationships with local Counties over and above friendlies and use of grounds. Durham do not appear to have this level of cooperation.
A rumour, some years ago, was that the respective coaches did not "see eye to eye" ?
Dan Hodgson, a Durham youth player, attended Leeds/Bradford MCCU and has ended up contracted to Yorkshire.
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Completely agree with this. Durham should be working really closely with the Uni. Wasn't Fowler in charge a few years ago at the Uni, not sure if he still is. Wouldn't take much to just have a chat now and again if he unearths any talent. Could also work the other way. If Durham have a quality junior, but who wants to study, they could apply for Durham with the understanding they are going to get 1st class cricket, and hopefully crack on with Durham when they graduate.
 
Durham Uni all out for 64, Cambridge Uni all out for 54 & Loughborough currently 45/5 after Sussex posted 421. Looking good guys!
 
Apparently Geoff Cook and Graeme Fowler don't get on whether this stems back to Fowler's time at Durham I don't know but obviously this should be put aside for the benefit a both clubs.
 
Struts said:
Durham Uni all out for 64, Cambridge Uni all out for 54 & Loughborough currently 45/5 after Sussex posted 421. Looking good guys!
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I think a lot of this is down to the time of year. I agree this doesn't seem in the least bit competitive, but remember the county sides will have had a full pre-season programme in place, whereas the students will have been juggling study with training. First class bowling will be a class above what they are used to aswell, and on early april wickets of course they are going to come unstuck. You do omit however to say that Oxford have performed well in bowling Notts out for 230 so surely that has been a useful workout for Notts.

I just think we need to see the bigger picture rather than writing the whole university cricket system off because the games are a bit one sided!
 
I am firmly of the opinion that the presence of "Academies" at County cricket clubs has led to young cricketers going straight into full time cricket.
Like football clubs, Counties do not encourage youngsters to go to University, preferring to have hold of them full time.
It would need strong parents and/or an astute young cricketer to resist the lure of full time cricket as soon as possible.
Ansari at Surrey is an exception. He is a talented cricketer and gifted academically. Just completed 3 years at Cambridge MCCU but available for Surrey.
Now he has graduated, full time cricketer and possible future Surrey captain.
 
Fowler is still at Durham University. I was at the game when they were all out for 19. It was the lowest first class score for 13 years or summit like that. The University side were woeful. I think even Harmison got a couple of wickets. There was a lad playing in that game and for two or three consecutive years for Durham University at that time who went on to play for Essex. forget his name though.
 
The Omega Man said:
Fowler is still at Durham University. I was at the game when they were all out for 19. It was the lowest first class score for 13 years or summit like that. The University side were woeful. I think even Harmison got a couple of wickets. his name thoughThere was a lad playing in that game and for two or three consecutive years for Durham University at that time who went on to play for Essex. forget .
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Tom Westley?
 
Some good points for and against but this notion of 'early season wickets' being a contributing factor to the low scores - doesn't work when the Uni is bowled out for double figures however the County makes 3/400+ before declaring. That just highlights the gulf in class.

I appreciate too that Academies are now taking more of a leading role when it comes to developing talent but I see that as only a good thing. University cricket only lasts from April to late June I believe and then they all go home for summer - Academies continue to work the whole summer (and winter) meaning the players get proper coaching all the time.

Agree that the best way would be for there to be a system in place to allow all Academies the chance to allow their players to go to Uni, or vice versa, but until that happens or until a better system is in place, I'll come back to my original question:

Is there any point of Counties playing Universities?

If only from a counties point of view - surely they'd be better playing other counties.

Or even, as inspired from the above, worth playing their own Second/Academy Teams and even perhaps classing those as First Class games?
 
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