Club finances

[hertsmackem]

I agree the owners have done well but we aren't 'in the clarts' in reality, Ellis paying off 90% of the debt saw to that. We have cut our cloth by making cuts in both staff and overheads since then too.

The new owners unloaded several big earners over the past few months. Several contracts ended in the summer and they've shifted on Rodwell, N'Dong and Papy. We sold Khazri, McNair and Asoro for around £13M. We spent less than £3M on players over the summer.

We probably only have 2 players who are now on more than £20K a week and their contracts are expiring and we still have our last parachute payment of around £16M next season. This is in comparison to the about £7M a season a Championship club receives from TV rights.

We aren't cash rich but we certainly aren't in a bad place financially in comparison to the majority of teams in the Championship and above.

We have a choice now of spending a couple of million to try to guarantee promotion or spend less than £500K and get the odd loan in and try to get promotion that way. It's a tough choice but I'd go for the former.

Great post and simple really, invest a bit and get us up and then go for another promotion and the money will pour in, manage it correctly for once and job done

 

[Pepe]

Plenty on here challenging them, unfortunately quite a few misconstrue what the Owners say and get the wrong end of the stick.
It was clear from day one finances would be limited, I have heard nothing from them that contradicts that.
Why would they need to be 'put on the spot'?
What have they said or done wrong?

They have not 'said' or 'done' anything wrong but they are unchallenged on all of it.

 

[gipetto]

Yes, but the difference won;t be anything like £6m. We were only on about 3 times last season anyway

There'll be other areas we'll lose out on though. I mean sponsorship for one.

It does make you think Betdaq have probably negotiated a very good deal. I wonder if the second series of netflix was factored into negotiations at the time as they will be reaping the reward of appearing on our documentary footage that will be seen globally.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

The fact that it’s 4 bids means the piss take is truly over. The old regime would have accepted the first counter!

The old regime would have gone in with an offer of around £5m. There would than have been a short delay for the Wigan board to be able to stop laughing before hauling our trousers down.

There'll be other areas we'll lose out on though. I mean sponsorship for one.

It does make you think Betdaq have probably negotiated a very good deal. I wonder if the second series of netflix was factored into negotiations at the time as they will be reaping the reward of appearing on our documentary footage that will be seen globally.

I'm not denying there would be some increase in income on going up. Just that it's not as big as people might expect.

 

[123SunTan]

Not if we keep going back over and over it isn’t which seems to be what their manager thinks we will do. He’s playing us in public. And now we’ve lost our only hope of goals so he will be laughing his cock off. I’d move on to someone else.

It would appear only modest increases between bids, and Wigan can’t afford to keep idle resources either. Making 4 modest bids then walking away also sends a clear message to the others clubs that this is a New Sunderland. I believe this is what he meant when he used the word “inquest” in his tweet. And it’s in our long term best interest to support this approach.

 

[samaistonsrightfoot]

It would appear only modest increases between bids, and Wigan can’t afford to keep idle resources either. Making 4 modest bids then walking away also sends a clear message to the others clubs that this is a New Sunderland. I believe this is what he meant when he used the word “inquest” in his tweet. And it’s in our long term best interest to support this approach.

Aye if we walk away that’s sound. That’s what I’m saying. If we go back in with another bid now when he’s been taking the piss in the media it would suggest the piss taking hasn’t stopped. Fuck him off and go for someone else.

 

[daveyspants]

f***ing hell, it's like a thread every day about this.. who's turn is it tomorrow to patronise the fans?

Patronising the fans by telling them that financially we are still in the shit?

 

[Mainze]

Methven said losses were likely to be “at least £10-12m, excluding exceptional items.” Those exceptional items would include, amongst other things, the further liability that may arise from the ongoing Ricky Alvarez court case.

Reports have proliferated that the club expects to reduce its operating losses to £5m this season, but he pointed out that is instead the ‘annualised’ loss position they expect to find themselves in at the end of this season. In layman’s terms, they expect to get monthly operating losses (i.e. before player trading) down to around £400k, which will then translate to an annual loss of £5m.

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When will people finally take the hint that we aren’t going to be splashing millions of pounds we don’t have on players we can’t afford?

Spending 50p would be nice tbh.

 

[123SunTan]

The old regime would have gone in with an offer of around £5m. There would than have been a short delay for the Wigan board to be able to stop laughing before hauling our trousers down.



I'm not denying there would be some increase in income on going up. Just that it's not as big as people might expect.

Horror memories of any fly on the wall at Man City when the Rodwell bid came in

 

[wackyjacky]

People seem to think investing £2m-£3m is going to get us up, and calling the owners out on it. If they do spend that, and bring in the players the manager wants, and we don't go up are they to blame? Not in my eyes, if they have done that and we don't go up then the manager also needs to be looked at. I'm not calling any of them btw, but just don't think it's as simple as that.
I think the owners are taking the right approach after the car crash over the last few seasons, and they're gradually sorting us out financially to hopefully be a bit more stable. They recognise we need to invest this window and appear committed to doing it but as it always been the case, the January window prices are grossly inflated due to teams being desperate and they're trying not to get caught up in that, hence the 4 bids for Grigg.
For me, bottom line is we should be doing better with the squad we currently have, we aren't so need to invest the right amount in the right players to hopefully get over the line. The owners watch the games like we do so they'll also be aware, like us, that the majority of these players won't make the step up so we'll have to invest again in the summer so will hopefully be keeping one eye on that and only investing enough now to get us up. It's a very tricky balancing act, I don't envy them at all.

 

[123SunTan]

People seem to think investing £2m-£3m is going to get us up, and calling the owners out on it. If they do spend that, and bring in the players the manager wants, and we don't go up are they to blame? Not in my eyes, if they have done that and we don't go up then the manager also needs to be looked at. I'm not calling any of them btw, but just don't think it's as simple as that.
I think the owners are taking the right approach after the car crash over the last few seasons, and they're gradually sorting us out financially to hopefully be a bit more stable. They recognise we need to invest this window and appear committed to doing it but as it always been the case, the January window prices are grossly inflated due to teams being desperate and they're trying not to get caught up in that, hence the 4 bids for Grigg.
For me, bottom line is we should be doing better with the squad we currently have, we aren't so need to invest the right amount in the right players to hopefully get over the line. The owners watch the games like we do so they'll also be aware, like us, that the majority of these players won't make the step up so we'll have to invest again in the summer so will hopefully be keeping one eye on that and only investing enough now to get us up. It's a very tricky balancing act, I don't envy them at all.

Very sensible and not wacky at all.

 

[Smiter]

I think where people get annoyed with finances is when we are told the owners will be covering the shortfall this year so no need to sell any players.

We then sell a player and are still told that money is not available due to shortfall this year.

It’s a fair question from people IMO, if we didn’t need to sell before, then we sell, to expect an improved transfer budget this Jan, when we need that extra push in a competitive division to get us over the line.

 

[JimmyQuinn]

I think where people get annoyed with finances is when we are told the owners will be covering the shortfall this year so no need to sell any players.

We then sell a player and are still told that money is not available due to shortfall this year.

It’s a fair question from people IMO, if we didn’t need to sell before, then we sell, to expect an improved transfer budget this Jan, when we need that extra push in a competitive division to get us over the line.

They've said they are investing this window so if it doesn't transpire in the next four days I think they'll be criticised with good reason.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

I think where people get annoyed with finances is when we are told the owners will be covering the shortfall this year so no need to sell any players.

We then sell a player and are still told that money is not available due to shortfall this year.

It’s a fair question from people IMO, if we didn’t need to sell before, then we sell, to expect an improved transfer budget this Jan, when we need that extra push in a competitive division to get us over the line.

Where have they said that? We get money from Maja. We happen to owe some money to the club who bought him. If we hadn't sold Maja, we'd still be owing Bordeaux money. The cashflow timing is a little different, but, at the end of the day, the club will be better off. The interview makes it clear that they will be both covering the shortfall and investing during this window. The one factor they can't control is the sheer difficulty of completing deals in January. Look at Chelsea - the Higuiain thing has been going on since New Years Day, and it's still not done. The cash is there - being able to spend it involves another club, a player and an agent, all of whom have a say in the outcome. Being willing to invest and being able to invest are two entirely different things.

 

[Smiter]

They've said they are investing this window so if it doesn't transpire in the next four days I think they'll be criticised with good reason.

Did they not say they were already investing this window before Maja was sold though?

I’m more justifying how I can see others seeing it tbh, I’ve got no criticisms of them until the window closes.

 

[samaistonsrightfoot]

People seem to think investing £2m-£3m is going to get us up, and calling the owners out on it. If they do spend that, and bring in the players the manager wants, and we don't go up are they to blame? Not in my eyes, if they have done that and we don't go up then the manager also needs to be looked at. I'm not calling any of them btw, but just don't think it's as simple as that.
I think the owners are taking the right approach after the car crash over the last few seasons, and they're gradually sorting us out financially to hopefully be a bit more stable. They recognise we need to invest this window and appear committed to doing it but as it always been the case, the January window prices are grossly inflated due to teams being desperate and they're trying not to get caught up in that, hence the 4 bids for Grigg.
For me, bottom line is we should be doing better with the squad we currently have, we aren't so need to invest the right amount in the right players to hopefully get over the line. The owners watch the games like we do so they'll also be aware, like us, that the majority of these players won't make the step up so we'll have to invest again in the summer so will hopefully be keeping one eye on that and only investing enough now to get us up. It's a very tricky balancing act, I don't envy them at all.

Agree. If we don’t go up it’s on the manager. We should be able to get promoted with the squad we had pre Maja without the need for more players. Obviously he needs replacing now so we have to bring someone is but considering the options I wouldn’t be opposed to a loan rather than someone having our pants down because we are desperate for a player who will need to be replaced again.

We are creating in average 4 attempts per game and 20th best in the league (from lad who’s done the conversion rate thread) which is f***ing abysmal for this side.

 

[Hot Since 82]

Is there no mention in that article of the average attendance being 10,000 more than they budgeted for? After vat that must equate to circa £3.5M to £4M over a season.

Is it the case then that forecast losses before exceptionals were to be in the region of 9-10M? Don't know what they said back in August etc.

 

[Beaverbrooke]

Is there no mention in that article of the average attendance being 10,000 more than they budgeted for? After vat that must equate to circa £3.5M to £4M over a season.

Is it the case then that forecast losses before exceptionals were to be in the region of 9-10M? Don't know what they said back in August etc.

10,000?
Weren't they budgeting for crowds of 29,000?

 

[Hot Since 82]

10,000?
Weren't they budgeting for crowds of 29,000?

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought one of them commented recently that the original forecast when assuming control of the club was 24,000. Obviously they will have re-forecast fairly regularly especially given that season ticket sales went so well, eventually.

 

[Beaverbrooke]

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought one of them commented recently that the original forecast when assuming control of the club was 24,000. Obviously they will have re-forecast fairly regularly especially given that season ticket sales went so well, eventually.

Just listened to podcast from few weeks ago, SD said they budgeted for 29.
But I bet you're right, that figure will be changing regularly.