Borthwick coming home



brandon said:
I see Carse as the long term prospect for sharing the new ball with Rushy, he’s genuinely fast and could be the perfect foil for Rushy seaming it all over.

Unfortunately with bowlers who are genuinely fast, they do tend to go for runs more regularly than the bulk of military medium bowlers you normally get at county level.

I agree wholeheartedly on your point about a finger spinner though.
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i just don't think you can afford to have your second choice bowler going for 4-5 runs per over. 110 from 18 overs against notts, yes they are a good side and yes even rushy when for 4 and change but i think there is alot more chance of carse becoming the player we need who can bat at 6 and bowl aggressive short spells than him being a steady hand with the ball. and if he can do that we could bring a pure bowler back into the side, doesn't matter if they're a proper number 11 with the bat as long as they can dry up the runs
 
Twisted said:
i just don't think you can afford to have your second choice bowler going for 4-5 runs per over. 110 from 18 overs against notts, yes they are a good side and yes even rushy when for 4 and change but i think there is alot more chance of carse becoming the player we need who can bat at 6 and bowl aggressive short spells than him being a steady hand with the ball. and if he can do that we could bring a pure bowler back into the side, doesn't matter if they're a proper number 11 with the bat as long as they can dry up the runs
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OTOH, if he';s your opening bowler he should be taking wickets, being miser;y isn't the main aim but as it happens if you do take wickets the batsmen tend to go on the defensive. I'd never say Onions was a miserly bowler, he bowled for wickets and a low runs per over was the consequence.
 
Twisted said:
i just don't think you can afford to have your second choice bowler going for 4-5 runs per over. 110 from 18 overs against notts, yes they are a good side and yes even rushy when for 4 and change but i think there is alot more chance of carse becoming the player we need who can bat at 6 and bowl aggressive short spells than him being a steady hand with the ball. and if he can do that we could bring a pure bowler back into the side, doesn't matter if they're a proper number 11 with the bat as long as they can dry up the runs
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Like Bri says, if he’s taking wickets he’s doing his job as an opening bowler. It’s what we had before with Harmy and that talent was noticed and harnessed by Boony very early on who pretty much told him to just bowl fast and not worry about economy. After all, you need to take 20 wickets to win games of cricket.
 
Desperate for a decent spin option. Had nothing since Breezy maybe Borthwick will give us that option although not sure if he’s been bowling at Surrey?
 
wayne entwhistle no9 said:
Didn't realize Rosebery got that long. Forgot all about the contract Morris got. Jesus he annoyed me more than any other cricketer to play for Durham, what a wasted talent. I remember probably 1998 or 99 watching him getting fatter each home game.
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Couldnt agree more about Morris and his talent.

The one I remember about his weight gain was the televised game in 1999 at Grace Road where we clinched our place in the new First Division and he was called on to play due to some injuries. He was that big I couldnt figure out if he was the heavy roller or one of the sight screens. (Original joke copyright T. Day of Middlesbrough).
 
Bri said:
OTOH, if he';s your opening bowler he should be taking wickets, being miser;y isn't the main aim but as it happens if you do take wickets the batsmen tend to go on the defensive. I'd never say Onions was a miserly bowler, he bowled for wickets and a low runs per over was the consequence.
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i dunno, you could make the same argument about drying up runs leads to batsmen trying something they shouldnt which leads to wickets. bunny was good and accurate which meant he was naturally probing which i think led to a combination of low economy and taking wickets.

i think ideally your new ball bowler isn't going to get smashed around as it'll keep the ball 'newer' for longer.

i know it's too much to ask to find a new bunny any time soon, he was a true durham legend
brandon said:
Like Bri says, if he’s taking wickets he’s doing his job as an opening bowler. It’s what we had before with Harmy and that talent was noticed and harnessed by Boony very early on who pretty much told him to just bowl fast and not worry about economy. After all, you need to take 20 wickets to win games of cricket.
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at teh risk of being captain obvious we have nobody of the talent of harmy in our fast battery and i think it takes something special to get away with that. i'd sooner have someone like salisbury opening with rushy and two of carse, potts, coughlin rather than all of them. that would be dependant on one of them being good enough to bat at 6 however. at the minute our four man attack has to feature raine and rushy with the other two seemingly a rotation of the others

EDIT: another point to make is durability - the likes of coughlin, carse and already at a young age potts have proven more fragile than sturdy so that's another reason i'd probably rather use them in short aggressive spells than have them in a new ball role
 
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Twisted said:
at teh risk of being captain obvious we have nobody of the talent of harmy in our fast battery and i think it takes something special to get away with that. i'd sooner have someone like salisbury opening with rushy and two of carse, potts, coughlin rather than all of them. that would be dependant on one of them being good enough to bat at 6 however. at the minute our four man attack has to feature raine and rushy with the other two seemingly a rotation of the others

EDIT: another point to make is durability - the likes of coughlin, carse and already at a young age potts have proven more fragile than sturdy so that's another reason i'd probably rather use them in short aggressive spells than have them in a new ball role
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I wasn’t suggesting Carse is the second coming of Harmison - but I’ve heard a few people (who I’d consider well placed to know) suggest that he is genuinely ‘Fast’ with the potential of getting quicker. That’s not ‘Fast Medium’ but ‘Fast’.

Players like that don’t come along too often and certainly aren’t taught so I’m more than happy to see him given the time to get it right based on that.
 
On the face of it very good news
I do hope that his return doesn’t fall foul of the principle that second time around does not often go well as in football and Coggers return this year could hardly be deemed a ripping success
So I am pleased but cautious
 
brandon said:
I wasn’t suggesting Carse is the second coming of Harmison - but I’ve heard a few people (who I’d consider well placed to know) suggest that he is genuinely ‘Fast’ with the potential of getting quicker. That’s not ‘Fast Medium’ but ‘Fast’.

Players like that don’t come along too often and certainly aren’t taught so I’m more than happy to see him given the time to get it right based on that.
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Oh, i know you weren't suggesting that. My point was just that it takes something really special to be a genuine quick and also be a good new ball bowler who can bowl long spells without getting absolutely carted around and perhaps more importantly stay fit and healthy. I know we both hope carse becomes that, but i don't think he's shown either yet in anything more than flashes.

i think for the benefit of the side we need more than just a 4 man attack and i think our side would look stronger with carse at 6 and salisbury at 11 than it would with carse at 9 or 10 where he is now and having to bowl someone like harte or lees or have no all rounder at all. obviously for this to happen though carse' batting improvement would have to continue at pace, and we'd have to improve the top order (bancroft & borthwick)
Monument View said:
On the face of it very good news
I do hope that his return doesn’t fall foul of the principle that second time around does not often go well as in football and Coggers return this year could hardly be deemed a ripping success
So I am pleased but cautious
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this might sound harsh on coughlin but i don't feel like he's ever really proven himself to be a good cricketer, not in the way scotty has. hopefully he can stay fit long enough to do so but it seems like his entire career has been stop start
 
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Monument View said:
On the face of it very good news
I do hope that his return doesn’t fall foul of the principle that second time around does not often go well as in football and Coggers return this year could hardly be deemed a ripping success
So I am pleased but cautious
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In fairness to both of them, Borthwick was much further on in terms of his development into a quality cricketer when both of them left.

I’d predict that still to be true with the comparison of them both returning too.
 
brandon said:
I wasn’t suggesting Carse is the second coming of Harmison - but I’ve heard a few people (who I’d consider well placed to know) suggest that he is genuinely ‘Fast’ with the potential of getting quicker. That’s not ‘Fast Medium’ but ‘Fast’.

Players like that don’t come along too often and certainly aren’t taught so I’m more than happy to see him given the time to get it right based on that.
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He's express pace, you can see it when he bowls. He bowled somebody off stump in the RL last season and the stump ended up almost at Bancroft.
 
Last season there was one Championship game at the Riverside where Carse bowled a handful of deliveries that were so fast that there was a collective gasp from the crowd.
 
Great news, unfortunate that it's unlikely he will play for England again despite being a much better batsman than when he got picked previously (I know he was picked as a spinner before).
 

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