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Batth to Norwich ** confirmed **

Last year we’d conceded 20 goals at this stage compared to 17 this year. Now the way some carry on about Batth you’d think it was 10 last season and about 35 this. I liked him, he was a good solid defender but stick to the facts, we haven’t become horrendously worse at the back without him. This player of the season thing is massively over egged too.
 
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I was just casting doubt on the suggestion he was the sole reason for their win.

Either way, Batth is a limited player and we were right to move him on in my opinion.
This. I was a great fan, but he's a player very much on the wane now. He's heading for his mid 30s and his pace was pretty much gone last season. Both ONien and Ballard are better players and Seelt, Triantis and Aliese are certainly potentially better. Let's move on.
 
He suited our style just fine last season. Have we changed that much?
He was injured preseason

Aye. We play out of defence.

Every single player that's played as a centreback this sesson has carried the ball out to create space for other players - even the two that started their first game yesterday.

Batth would struggle to do that, he never did that for us, I doubt he's ever done it in his career.

His playing style can't even be compared to the current group, and if we were just going in to sign him for the first time now there'd be massive question marks regarding recruitment strategy.

Did his bit for us, he did great, we've moved on.
 
A good few years ago now, a former CF of ours made the comment, you start winning games by not losing.l, ie not conceding!

So we have Patterson, 3 decent full backs, imho Ballard and Batth, would be a good CB pairing, with a couple of youngsters as back-up. 09 in fron of the back four as DM.

Then all we have to do is nick a goal...
That’s not how the club or head coach want us to play tho.
He suited our style just fine last season. Have we changed that much?
He was injured preseason
Massively changed.
Last year we’d conceded 20 goals at this stage compared to 17 this year. Now the way some carry on about Batth you’d think it was 10 last season and about 35 this. I liked him, he was a good solid defender but stick to the facts, we haven’t become horrendously worse at the back without him. This player of the season thing is massively over egged too.
100%
 
A good few years ago now, a former CF of ours made the comment, you start winning games by not losing.l, ie not conceding!

So we have Patterson, 3 decent full backs, imho Ballard and Batth, would be a good CB pairing, with a couple of youngsters as back-up. 09 in fron of the back four as DM.

Then all we have to do is nick a goal...
Good old kick and rush 🙄
 
Last year we’d conceded 20 goals at this stage compared to 17 this year. Now the way some carry on about Batth you’d think it was 10 last season and about 35 this. I liked him, he was a good solid defender but stick to the facts, we haven’t become horrendously worse at the back without him. This player of the season thing is massively over egged too.
We are worse at the back with Onien than with Batth, anyone that can't see that shouldn't be watching football. That can't just be clarified by comparing goals conceded this year against last year though - its an absolutely ridiculous argument as there's other things that determine that too, like the different coach's philosophy, injuries, suspensions, opposition and the strength of them, other players progression and the overall strength of our team in each season etc etc etc.

And him being player of the year wasn't over egged either - he along with probably Amad were the clear choices. Batth probably was the pick because of his importance and leadership over the entire season.

It's as stupid as the argument that we never missed Ross Stewart or a striker because there wasn't a drop off of goals or that we aren't missing Amad as we're still scoring the same level of goals and creating.

In a division where small margins count its great that we have enough talent to overcome some situations, but too many fans are just looking at stats and not realising that each of these components would likely add a small percentage here and there, which quite possibly becomes the difference.

Even if moving Batth on because he maybe didn't have the pace or the ability on the ball was something that had been decided. Like with the Stewart/Simms injury last season and the collection of central defenders injured at the end of last season - we should have been more cautious about letting Batth go when we did. We had let Wright go and decided to go with Ballard who has maybe had contact injuries but is prone to long spells out, Onien who isn't a dominant central defender, Anderson who its been decided wasn't ready is out on loan, Alese is long term injured and then adding two 20 year olds with experience in the Australian league and the 2nd tier in the Dutch always meant it was a possibility with an injury or suspension that we'd be left as we are now and hence not really a clever decision for a side supposedly looking towards a top 6 finish.

Had we just kept Batth till January then hopefully we'd have had a bit of time for Seelt and Triantis to adjust and maybe get a few games here and there. Instead when they were required they had to be chucked in together which might do the more harm then good if we play someone better than Brum.
To be fair we were awful from set pieces last season

We weren't early on when we had Batth, Ballard, Stewart/Simms.

Again though as with early this season and mainly Ballard, we had mostly one man over 6ft for much of the season expected to be dominant in those areas.
 
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There's this myth that we were practically water tight when Baath played last season, we weren't. By the end of the season we had one of the highest goals against in the top 10. We conceded 20 more goals than Burnley and 16 more then Luton and Sheff Utd. He was awful in the 5-1 home defeat to Stoke (as many others were). I think it's a case of the club were ahead of the curve on this one and he was on the decline. He's gone, let's just move on.

We are 6 points better off than at the same stage last season, have scored 6 more goals and conceded 3 less. We have a goal difference of 10 vs a goal difference of 1 last season. The club has undoubtedly made correct decisions and we are on the up. Yesterday we had two young developing central defenders playing while Danny Baath best days, I dare say, are behind him. Good luck to him at Norwich. Onwards and upwards.
 
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Was a big blow to us losing him back end of the season, with we may have done Luton.
But still right decision to let him go this season, we move on.
 
We are worse at the back with Onien than with Batth, anyone that can't see that shouldn't be watching football. That can't just be clarified by comparing goals conceded this year against last year though - its an absolutely ridiculous argument as there's other things that determine that too, like the different coach's philosophy, injuries, suspensions, opposition and the strength of them, other players progression and the overall strength of our team in each season etc etc etc.

And him being player of the year wasn't over egged either - he along with probably Amad were the clear choices. Batth probably was the pick because of his importance and leadership over the entire season.

It's as stupid as the argument that we never missed Ross Stewart or a striker because there wasn't a drop off of goals or that we aren't missing Amad as we're still scoring the same level of goals and creating.

In a division where small margins count its great that we have enough talent to overcome some situations, but too many fans are just looking at stats and not realising that each of these components would likely add a small percentage here and there, which quite possibly becomes the difference.

Even if moving Batth on because he maybe didn't have the pace or the ability on the ball was something that had been decided. Like with the Stewart/Simms injury last season and the collection of central defenders injured at the end of last season - we should have been more cautious about letting Batth go when we did. We had let Wright go and decided to go with Ballard who has maybe had contact injuries but is prone to long spells out, Onien who isn't a dominant central defender, Anderson who its been decided wasn't ready is out on loan, Alese is long term injured and then adding two 20 year olds with experience in the Australian league and the 2nd tier in the Dutch always meant it was a possibility with an injury or suspension that we'd be left as we are now and hence not really a clever decision for a side supposedly looking towards a top 6 finish.

Had we just kept Batth till January then hopefully we'd have had a bit of time for Seelt and Triantis to adjust and maybe get a few games here and there. Instead when they were required they had to be chucked in together which might do the more harm then good if we play someone better than Brum.


We weren't early on when we had Batth, Ballard, Stewart/Simms.

Again though as with early this season and mainly Ballard, we had mostly one man over 6ft for much of the season expected to be dominant in those areas.

Yep... its not even hindsight...

Having a solid defence with 09 as DM does not mean kick and rush or long ball attacks. It just means we do not give away silly goals... 09 is quite a good passer of the ball. John Terry a very good CB, not noted for his passing, just laid the ball off to Lampard. Batth or any defender come to that, can just lay the ball off to Neil etc.
We have made ourselves more defensively vulnerable at the back, compared to last season, unless the two CB youngsters on Saturday get better very quickly.
 
We are worse at the back with Onien than with Batth, anyone that can't see that shouldn't be watching football. That can't just be clarified by comparing goals conceded this year against last year though - its an absolutely ridiculous argument as there's other things that determine that too, like the different coach's philosophy, injuries, suspensions, opposition and the strength of them, other players progression and the overall strength of our team in each season etc etc etc.

And him being player of the year wasn't over egged either - he along with probably Amad were the clear choices. Batth probably was the pick because of his importance and leadership over the entire season.

It's as stupid as the argument that we never missed Ross Stewart or a striker because there wasn't a drop off of goals or that we aren't missing Amad as we're still scoring the same level of goals and creating.

In a division where small margins count its great that we have enough talent to overcome some situations, but too many fans are just looking at stats and not realising that each of these components would likely add a small percentage here and there, which quite possibly becomes the difference.

Even if moving Batth on because he maybe didn't have the pace or the ability on the ball was something that had been decided. Like with the Stewart/Simms injury last season and the collection of central defenders injured at the end of last season - we should have been more cautious about letting Batth go when we did. We had let Wright go and decided to go with Ballard who has maybe had contact injuries but is prone to long spells out, Onien who isn't a dominant central defender, Anderson who its been decided wasn't ready is out on loan, Alese is long term injured and then adding two 20 year olds with experience in the Australian league and the 2nd tier in the Dutch always meant it was a possibility with an injury or suspension that we'd be left as we are now and hence not really a clever decision for a side supposedly looking towards a top 6 finish.

Had we just kept Batth till January then hopefully we'd have had a bit of time for Seelt and Triantis to adjust and maybe get a few games here and there. Instead when they were required they had to be chucked in together which might do the more harm then good if we play someone better than Brum.


We weren't early on when we had Batth, Ballard, Stewart/Simms.

Again though as with early this season and mainly Ballard, we had mostly one man over 6ft for much of the season expected to be dominant in those areas.
Not sure you can claim that we should have been more cautious about moving him on just yet, mind. He would have barely played up to Saturday, and we won at the weekend with the two young lads doing fine overall. We'll be back to Ballard and O'Nien after the international break. And the young lads have shown that they can step in if needed - particularly if we're only missing one. Add in Alese being on the verge of being back (a player who Mowbray absolutely trusts) and it all suggests that it's been fine. A calculated gamble perhaps, but one that looks like we'll win.
Yep... its not even hindsight...

Having a solid defence with 09 as DM does not mean kick and rush or long ball attacks. It just means we do not give away silly goals... 09 is quite a good passer of the ball. John Terry a very good CB, not noted for his passing, just laid the ball off to Lampard. Batth or any defender come to that, can just lay the ball off to Neil etc.
We have made ourselves more defensively vulnerable at the back, compared to last season, unless the two CB youngsters on Saturday get better very quickly.
O'Nien has proved time and again that he isn't up to being in midfield. He's a good passer 'for a defender' but put him in the middle with threats coming from all angles and his passing levels drop considerably. Batth into defence and O'Nien into midfield would be pretty debilitating for the way we play - and that is clear whether you look at stats or at the game with your eyes.
 
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I called it in Jul and early Aug that we would be looking to either replace him or he won’t get a game here.

A blind man on a galloping house could see it from the first pre season he wasn’t going to get any game time and we were playing different football.

Obviously it’s hard for you to catch on :lol:

He did yesterday.

Fits in with the rest of his posts :lol:
Let’s see proof of you dissing him prior to this season. He was player of the season and an excellent pro behind the scenes. It came about that he was going to be moved on and then people like yourself piled on saying he wasn’t good enough which was ridiculous as he’d never let us down. You were being wise after the event and you can’t prove otherwise.
 
Despite the goals conceded, I think our defending looks even more desperate this season than last.

I've been putting it down to 2 things, the loss of Batth who is stronger, better in the air and reads danger better than O'Nien and the ease with which opposing teams can play through the middle of us.

However, O'Nien does a good job recovering from his own mistakes and those of others thanks to his pace. Does nothing for the anxiety when watching but I'm not sure it matters if one player confidently snuffs out a threat while the other might stumble and has to bust a gut to achieve the same end product?

O'Nien offers far more in possession, in his range of passing, carrying the ball, creating space and passing angles in the midfield. We saw how Neil and Ekwah missed him on Saturday with the lack of options when they were being pressured.
 
We are worse at the back with Onien than with Batth, anyone that can't see that shouldn't be watching football.
Why on earth would I defer to you as some kind of expert 😂😂 People make out like we were amazing at the back last year. We absolutely weren’t. We regularly leaked goals, particularly at corners when shock horror Danny Batth was playing. And if we were better at the back last year, who played CB for most? Oh yes, Luke O’Nien
I like Batth and he was good for us last season but I understand why we let him go in the summer.

We have changed the way we play slightly and needed defenders that are comfortable with the ball and he isn't that type of player.
Comfortable on the ball and play higher up the pitch. I liked Batth but he was Beckenbauer according to some on here.
 
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