Ashes 5th test - Sydney

[Aleem Dar]

Absolutely this.

We are short on leaders on the pitch and in the stands.[DOUBLEPOST=1388742108][/DOUBLEPOST]

The management seem obsessed with scoring rates but i'd take a wicket-taking bowler over Bresnans every time

If he takes 3/4/5-99 every other innings then he will remain, if he starts having 0-99 consistently then he will be given the push; and rightly so.

 

[SydneyFan]

Lying here recovering from a day on the piss in sweltering conditions. We had them by the short and curlies again but just cannot put them to the sword. If they'd had us at 97-5 we'd be all out for 110.
Good atmosphere, had tickets right in the barmy army section right where Vic Flowers was standing on the seats leading the singing. Took me back to my Sunderland days that did. The Aussies still only have 1 song, Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, Oi, Oi, Oi with the odd 4-0 thrown in. Best song of the day for me is the Dad's Army theme with the words Who do you think you are kidding Mitchell Johnson if you think old Englands done. Top day but we are heading for 5-0.

 

[Randy Ostrich]

If he takes 3/4/5-99 every other innings then he will remain, if he starts having 0-99 consistently then he will be given the push; and rightly so.

As I said earlier though, our big problem is who comes in? The aussies were in this position in 2005 - you coast for so long you forget to plan for your big men retiring. It's shocking that we're giving Test debuts to lads who've only played maybe 1 or 2 seasons for their counties. What are the Lions for if not to be a production line for the Test team?

 

[mikemanc]

Geoffrey Boycott, Ex-England batsman on BBC Test Match Special
"Graham Onions can bowl, but all they do is give him one practice match on tour. If he doesn't bowl well, they say he can't play the Test matches. Some bowlers take a while to find their form on a tour. I bet Bresnan and Rankin don't have better Championship records than Onions."[DOUBLEPOST=1388741069][/DOUBLEPOST]

What pisses me off more than anything is that we've consistently bowled too short in the whole series. What on earth is the bowling coach for if not to correct this? The wicket-taking deliveries have all been pitched up. No problem having players driving if wickets are tumbling. Combative aussies are always going to score at a decent lick. We can't worry about that when we need wickets.[DOUBLEPOST=1388741208][/DOUBLEPOST]


Michael Vaughan, Ex-England captain on BBC Test Match Special
"Ben Stokes is the one positive for England in this series. He's got his mate Scott Borthwick out there with him today and Durham are producing some good, young cricketers. Their coach, Geoff Cook, and captain, Paul Collingwood, deserve a lot of credit. Colly is actually coaching Scotland at the moment. Why is he not involved with England?"

Because Colly's still playing. Wouldn't surprise me if he quits playing at the end of this summer and is involved with England in some capacity straight away.

Stokes took a bit of tap from Haddin but generally didn't bowl to badly, I think his run rate was a bit of an aberration in this innings. Borthwick did what he does for Durham and what we all expected, bowled a few good deliveries but every over had 2 deliveries that were absolute filth, usually full tosses and unlike with Smith the Aussies didn't oblige by lobbing it up to mid-on/off.

There was a worse example of Cook's lack of strength as a captain. Anderson came on to bowl at Watson I think it was who had hit a could of drives through cover so Anderson moved his 3rd slip to extra cover. Both commentators immediately said if you insert a team on the first morning of a test match you are trying to bowl them out and you should be doing that rather than worrying about the runs they were scoring. First or second ball nicked it for a dolly to 3rd slip, goes for 4, Cook puts the slip in. So infuriating and symptomatic of the negative approach of England under Cook's captaincy and a lack of a plan of attack that the captain and bowler are committing to together.

 

[Randy Ostrich]

Both commentators immediately said if you insert a team on the first morning of a test match you are trying to bowl them out and you should be doing that rather than worrying about the runs they were scoring. First or second ball nicked it for a dolly to 3rd slip, goes for 4, Cook puts the slip in. So infuriating and symptomatic of the negative approach of England under Cook's captaincy and a lack of a plan of attack that the captain and bowler are committing to together.

Makes you rather nostalgic for the days of Vaughan and Fletcher

 

[mikemanc]

Makes you rather nostalgic for the days of Vaughan and Fletcher

We bowled really well until the end of Broad and Anderson's first spells after lunch. After that it was almost as if the players looked at each other and went 'well that didn't work, wtf do we do now?'

I know it wasn't helped by Boyd getting injured but England were still left with 3 capable seamers and a frontline spinner. I know people on here are saying Borthwick isn't that, and I don't think he's good enough for that role yet, but I can't imagine England picked him to be specialist no 8 who bowls a bit. Although on this tour you never know.

 

[Twisted]

Michael Vaughan, Ex-England captain on BBC Test Match Special
"Ben Stokes is the one positive for England in this series. He's got his mate Scott Borthwick out there with him today and Durham are producing some good, young cricketers. Their coach, Geoff Cook, and captain, Paul Collingwood, deserve a lot of credit. Colly is actually coaching Scotland at the moment. Why is he not involved with England?"

much as i love colly, it is a bit sycophantic to give him too much credit for developing stokes &borthwick, he's only been around them a year, during which period both have seen their main strength go backward to the point you now could say stokes is a bowling all arounder and borthwick a batting all rounder as opposed to the other way around.[DOUBLEPOST=1388744169][/DOUBLEPOST]

I bet Bresnan and Rankin don't have better Championship records than Onions."[DOUBLEPOST=1388741069][/DOUBLEPOST]

What pisses me off more than anything is that we've consistently bowled too short in the whole series. What on earth is the bowling coach for if not to correct this? The wicket-taking deliveries have all been pitched up.

we've been saying both of these same things for the last two years tbf

 

[Randy Ostrich]

We bowled really well until the end of Broad and Anderson's first spells after lunch. After that it was almost as if the players looked at each other and went 'well that didn't work, wtf do we do now?'

Exactly. Seems to have been a problem all tour. How do you work and needle someone out? Do you have the discipline to run in and bowl a consistent line, putting the ball in good areas? What is plan B - defend for your lives?

I know it wasn't helped by Boyd getting injured but England were still left with 3 capable seamers and a frontline spinner. I know people on here are saying Borthwick isn't that, and I don't think he's good enough for that role yet, but I can't imagine England picked him to be specialist no 8 who bowls a bit. Although on this tour you never know.

I worry that they always focus on batting first, bowling second. How else did dross like Bresnan play for England? They were always taking a chance with injuries by not playing these guys and not arranging enough games before and during the series.

 

[mikemanc]

much as i love colly, it is a bit sycophantic to give him too much credit for developing stokes &borthwick, he's only been around them a year, during which period both have seen their main strength go backward to the point you now could say stokes is a bowling all arounder and borthwick a batting all rounder as opposed to the other way around.

I agree with your point about developing the players but I think he'd be a similar coach to Lehman and you can't say he hasn't done a fantastic job. He'd want us playing aggressive, intelligent cricket with none of this defensive, lack of direction crap we're having to put with at the moment.

 

[Randy Ostrich]

much as i love colly, it is a bit sycophantic to give him too much credit for developing stokes &borthwick, he's only been around them a year, during which period both have seen their main strength go backward to the point you now could say stokes is a bowling all arounder and borthwick a batting all rounder as opposed to the other way around.

I think he's talking about leadership and discipline more than anything else tbh

we've been saying both of these same things for the last two years tbf

Yep, yet our Test cricketers seem incapable of learning.

 

[Patch Lafayette]

Because Colly's still playing. Wouldn't surprise me if he quits playing at the end of this summer and is involved with England in some capacity straight away.

There was a worse example of Cook's lack of strength as a captain. Anderson came on to bowl at Watson I think it was who had hit a could of drives through cover so Anderson moved his 3rd slip to extra cover. Both commentators immediately said if you insert a team on the first morning of a test match you are trying to bowl them out and you should be doing that rather than worrying about the runs they were scoring. First or second ball nicked it for a dolly to 3rd slip, goes for 4, Cook puts the slip in. So infuriating and symptomatic of the negative approach of England under Cook's captaincy and a lack of a plan of attack that the captain and bowler are committing to together.

Agree with this, I'd love to see Cook being more aggressive with his fielding. thought he may h.ave learned from Clarke in this series who I think has set his fielders excellently

 

[Twisted]

Yep, yet our Test cricketers seem incapable of learning.

i remember a series, a good few years ago now, where our bowlers, especially broad, were bowling so short, so repetitively that even on sky you could hear the whole crowd shouting 'pitch it uuuuuuuuuuup!!' all day long

 

[Randy Ostrich]

i remember a series, a good few years ago now, where our bowlers, especially broad, were bowling so short, so repetitively that even on sky you could hear the whole crowd shouting 'pitch it uuuuuuuuuuup!!' all day long

Broad went through a good 18 months of bowling far too short, culminating in the series against Sri Lanka a coupole of years ago. I'm sure he randomly started pitching it up against India and took 5 straight away

 

[Twisted]

Broad went through a good 18 months of bowling far too short, culminating in the series against Sri Lanka a coupole of years ago. I'm sure he randomly started pitching it up against India and took 5 straight away

aye, i'm a bit worried this series mitchell johnson's perform will set us back years, even though his wicket takers have been the fuller straight ones.

oh well, at least we kept carberry in.

 

[Tonton Zola Moukoko]

Because Colly's still playing. Wouldn't surprise me if he quits playing at the end of this summer and is involved with England in some capacity straight away.

Stokes took a bit of tap from Haddin but generally didn't bowl to badly, I think his run rate was a bit of an aberration in this innings. Borthwick did what he does for Durham and what we all expected, bowled a few good deliveries but every over had 2 deliveries that were absolute filth, usually full tosses and unlike with Smith the Aussies didn't oblige by lobbing it up to mid-on/off.

There was a worse example of Cook's lack of strength as a captain. Anderson came on to bowl at Watson I think it was who had hit a could of drives through cover so Anderson moved his 3rd slip to extra cover. Both commentators immediately said if you insert a team on the first morning of a test match you are trying to bowl them out and you should be doing that rather than worrying about the runs they were scoring. First or second ball nicked it for a dolly to 3rd slip, goes for 4, Cook puts the slip in. So infuriating and symptomatic of the negative approach of England under Cook's captaincy and a lack of a plan of attack that the captain and bowler are committing to together.

Anderson did it in his 3rd or 4th over, took the short leg out and moved him back to mid wicket saving runs. Was mentioned on commentary at the time that Anderson is so bothered about his runs conceded. Not exactly a team player and shocking captaincy from Cook. Can't imagine the side having much respect for him if he lets his bowlers dictate the fields.

 

[Randy Ostrich]

Anderson did it in his 3rd or 4th over, took the short leg out and moved him back to mid wicket saving runs. Was mentioned on commentary at the time that Anderson is so bothered about his runs conceded. Not exactly a team player and shocking captaincy from Cook. Can't imagine the side having much respect for him if he lets his bowlers dictate the fields.

How do you learn the art of captaincy?

By captaining.

Which teams has Cook captained in his career..............?

 

[Twisted]

Anderson did it in his 3rd or 4th over, took the short leg out and moved him back to mid wicket saving runs. Was mentioned on commentary at the time that Anderson is so bothered about his runs conceded. Not exactly a team player and shocking captaincy from Cook. Can't imagine the side having much respect for him if he lets his bowlers dictate the fields.

he always haslet anderson and broad set their own fields more or less. i can't imagine anderson being the one wanting to save runs, if true his arse ust have fell out

 

[mackembhoy]

he always haslet anderson and broad set their own fields more or less. i can't imagine anderson being the one wanting to save runs, if true his arse ust have fell out

I'd trust bumble as it was him who said it.

 

[Twisted]

I'd trust bumble as it was him who said it.

blokes arse must have gone then. utter madness

 

[Tonton Zola Moukoko]

he always haslet anderson and broad set their own fields more or less. i can't imagine anderson being the one wanting to save runs, if true his arse ust have fell out

Was Nasser on commentary making the point that he's the captain, won the toss, put them in, then he's letting Anderson take a catcher out after a couple of overs.