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mickey
Guest
Ok, am a Yorkie fan, but cannot fail to see that there appear to me some massive problems at Durham this season. What's gone wrong? The players who haven't left/retired are underachieving in every discipline.
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short leg
Guest
nowt to do with yorkshire puddings
The Breen Machine
Striker
I think they simply haven't freshened up an ageing side. It sounds stupid but Harmison, MDV, Benks, Thorp, Collingwood, Blackwell have all "aged" at the same time and there seems to be no middle ground in the side - i.e: good, dependable performers hitting their peak years (Except Onions who is England class). The side is mainly filled with ageing players in their last years and struggling for form (Harmison, Benks, Thorp) and potential such as Borthwick, Stokes and Stoneman (debatable now given his age). The gaps left are filled by middle of the road county players like Muchall, Smith, Claydon who on their day will look fair professionals, but are never consistent enough to play big parts in a division one side.
The side is completely unbalanced, we have never had a top spinner ever and although Borthwick has plenty potential he's a young leg-spinner being brought up on unfriendly pitches. I'm not sure why Breese isn't used in the odd championship game as a solif off-spinner who can bat a bit. Mustard is completely out of form but has never been a top championship keeper/batsman and has been in a comfort zone for years due to lack of competition.
Put all their eggs in one basket with the T20 aswell which would make sense financially but to get relegated this year would be a disaster. Dropping down a league with the likes of Harmison, Collingwood, Blackwell on big contracts would be a nightmare and there is definitley a gap developing between the 2 divisions with young players such as Taylor and Gurney leaving for the better prospects of division one.
I look at the Durham squad and I see possibly one player who could make 1000 runs (Benks) and one who could take 50 wickets (Onions), I would put no money at all on anyone else doing that in either discipline. Liam Plunkett should be playing for England now but can't even do fuck all in the 2nd's - what has gone wrong there?, good young players coming through such as him, Turner and Coetzer seem to have fallen by the wayside as players like Muchall walk into all 3 formats.
I also don't understand why Collingwood wasn't made captain of all 3 formats at the beginning of the season. He is an automatic pick in all and is a fantastic role model and leader for those coming through. To continue with the split captaincy was just more or less a way of saying we did OK last season so we will persist with this, rather than looking at the best option available to the club - short sighted thinking if it was ever seen. DCCC will also face a problem shortly as Collingwood is 36 and who can they turn to after he goes, back to Mustard?. There should be someone groomed as a vice-captain while he does this job but there are no candidates whatsoever. Older lads like Colly and Benks are going to have to carry the club again in the 2nd half of this season - there seems to be a complete dearth of natural leaders and responsible young players coming through. I look at James Taylor and I see a leader at the age of 23, Josh Cobb is 21 and captaining Leicestershire's one day side, Rory Hamilton-Brown is 24 and into his third season captaincy one of the biggest counties in the game. When Colly goes the choices are to appoint a young lad like Stokes who will probably be away with England by this time, go back to Mustard, try someone like Onions purely because he will be an automatic pick or sign a player to do the job - I think the latter is their only sensible alternative, quite simply the squad needs freshening up at the end of this season and they have to look long term as the leaders in the squad are slowly diminishing. We seem to be developing no young batsmen whatsoever either and Harrison is the only pace bowler coming through, the DCCC conveyor belt of young talent seems to be slowing a bit and with an ageing squad all the club can do is hope to secure a quality overseas player for a full-term and pick up a couple of talents from skint division two clubs.
Worrying times ahead in my eyes.
The side is completely unbalanced, we have never had a top spinner ever and although Borthwick has plenty potential he's a young leg-spinner being brought up on unfriendly pitches. I'm not sure why Breese isn't used in the odd championship game as a solif off-spinner who can bat a bit. Mustard is completely out of form but has never been a top championship keeper/batsman and has been in a comfort zone for years due to lack of competition.
Put all their eggs in one basket with the T20 aswell which would make sense financially but to get relegated this year would be a disaster. Dropping down a league with the likes of Harmison, Collingwood, Blackwell on big contracts would be a nightmare and there is definitley a gap developing between the 2 divisions with young players such as Taylor and Gurney leaving for the better prospects of division one.
I look at the Durham squad and I see possibly one player who could make 1000 runs (Benks) and one who could take 50 wickets (Onions), I would put no money at all on anyone else doing that in either discipline. Liam Plunkett should be playing for England now but can't even do fuck all in the 2nd's - what has gone wrong there?, good young players coming through such as him, Turner and Coetzer seem to have fallen by the wayside as players like Muchall walk into all 3 formats.
I also don't understand why Collingwood wasn't made captain of all 3 formats at the beginning of the season. He is an automatic pick in all and is a fantastic role model and leader for those coming through. To continue with the split captaincy was just more or less a way of saying we did OK last season so we will persist with this, rather than looking at the best option available to the club - short sighted thinking if it was ever seen. DCCC will also face a problem shortly as Collingwood is 36 and who can they turn to after he goes, back to Mustard?. There should be someone groomed as a vice-captain while he does this job but there are no candidates whatsoever. Older lads like Colly and Benks are going to have to carry the club again in the 2nd half of this season - there seems to be a complete dearth of natural leaders and responsible young players coming through. I look at James Taylor and I see a leader at the age of 23, Josh Cobb is 21 and captaining Leicestershire's one day side, Rory Hamilton-Brown is 24 and into his third season captaincy one of the biggest counties in the game. When Colly goes the choices are to appoint a young lad like Stokes who will probably be away with England by this time, go back to Mustard, try someone like Onions purely because he will be an automatic pick or sign a player to do the job - I think the latter is their only sensible alternative, quite simply the squad needs freshening up at the end of this season and they have to look long term as the leaders in the squad are slowly diminishing. We seem to be developing no young batsmen whatsoever either and Harrison is the only pace bowler coming through, the DCCC conveyor belt of young talent seems to be slowing a bit and with an ageing squad all the club can do is hope to secure a quality overseas player for a full-term and pick up a couple of talents from skint division two clubs.
Worrying times ahead in my eyes.
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safcdccc
Guest
Stopped reading after this, as I find this "excuse" completely crap and heard it way too many times from outsiders. We got the most batting points last season, you don't suddenly become shite overnight.
Going to a lot of games, along with a few others on here, I think their is a lot of unrest in the camp, and these observations were made near the end of last season when we suddenly blew it massively. I still think Harmison has a lot to do with these and others at the games tend to agree. Will be interesting to see how we go without him around earning a ridiculous amount of money for doing nowt. As I type this post, 1 Durham player is currently out on the piss in Durham at the moment, we don't need players like that.
Confidence is also a major issue and let's be honest the weather hasn't helped either at Middlesex and Worcester.
Changes will be made, already starting to take place and I fully expect to see some players leave in the winter.
Just got to stick with the lads and hope we manage to stay up. We've got some good players who need supporting.
If we get relegated then fair enough, just got to get down and support them in hope we can get promoted.
Breese is only contracted to 1 day stuff by the way
You also seem to forget that Smith was only 35 runs shy of 1000 last season, something a lot of people seem to forget.
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But we have, and with the age of the players involved it might be a permanent decline in their form rather than a blip in their form
And we do need to replace a lot of the squad in the next year or two and there's only Stokes, Harrison and Borthwick who seem to be coming in to freshen up the side. Going to be a lot on their shoulders in the next few years.
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safcdccc
Guest
Yes I'm fully aware we're doing poor, it's been painful watching it, but I'm not have anyone tell me it's due to the age of the players, absolute bullshit. If I'm honest I've never heard this excuse made down at the games as well. It seems it's outsiders who seem to suggest this.
We've got some good young players in the 2nd XI and academy, just a case of giving them time to establish themselves whenever. Jennings, Richardson, Wood and Raine are decent cricketers. Few others as well, people will need to be patient with the forthcoming changes that will happen in the next couple of year.
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So the batsmen are batting badly because they don't like each other or decisions made by the hierarchy?
Glad to hear that, hope they are ready to step up soon.
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The Colonel
Guest
There have been no additions to the squad in ages, bar Brathwaite who has hardly featured and i think that players have started to operate in a comfort zone.
I think it would go some of the current players good to go to another club and it would be good for DCCC to have some new blood into the team/squad.
I'll be interested what cook decides to do at the end of the season. He is a fine servant to durham and when he calls it a day as Head coach i hope that he isnt lost to the club entirely.
who the replacement is to cook isnt clear now. 90% of the members appear to think that Benkenstein is a shoe in but Collingwood is now starting to be mentioned as is Otis gibson.
I think its a shame that MDv wont have some sort of part to play in a future DCCC and TBH is the most qualified and expereinced to take over as head coach but that wouldnt happen as even though he really likes durham, Tasmania is his first love and he will forge out a career with them I would imagine.
Durham have no real option now but to say a fond farewell to some of the current crop of players and welcome a younger, high quality sort of player.
whether its evolution or revolution remains to be seen.
I think it would go some of the current players good to go to another club and it would be good for DCCC to have some new blood into the team/squad.
I'll be interested what cook decides to do at the end of the season. He is a fine servant to durham and when he calls it a day as Head coach i hope that he isnt lost to the club entirely.
who the replacement is to cook isnt clear now. 90% of the members appear to think that Benkenstein is a shoe in but Collingwood is now starting to be mentioned as is Otis gibson.
I think its a shame that MDv wont have some sort of part to play in a future DCCC and TBH is the most qualified and expereinced to take over as head coach but that wouldnt happen as even though he really likes durham, Tasmania is his first love and he will forge out a career with them I would imagine.
Durham have no real option now but to say a fond farewell to some of the current crop of players and welcome a younger, high quality sort of player.
whether its evolution or revolution remains to be seen.
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safcdccc
Guest
I'm convinced their is unrest at the club and have had that opinion for about a year now. Confidence is at an all time low.
Good cricketers going through a bad time at the moment. Just got to stick with them and keep supporting them.
We'll get sorted, but it will take time.
Age is no excuse though, absolutely laughable.
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Without being close to the club it's seemed that way since Smith was captain
The Breen Machine
Striker
Absolute bollocks to suggest age isn't an issue but Harmison is. He has barely played all season and in his 16 years with the county previously, has represented them fantastically with little fuss. He is past it without doubt but I don't see what negative effect he could possibly have on the rest of the players if he's barely around anyway.
Of course it is more than possible age could be an issue, we have a first XI which is half filled with good players but good players past their peak. How many sides in division one rely so heavily on players in their mid/late thirties as we do?
Confidence will be down but confidence is sport is bred from winning games, we aren't doing enough to do that at the moment and it goes hand in hand.
We simply have barely changed our side in 5 years . we have gone from champions, to nearly men, to middle of the league, to fighting relegation in that time - no surprise - stand still, go backwards as a famous ex SAFC manager said.
We are under achieving with the players available but we were never going to challenge with the squad we have
When did you start going to the Riverside like?
hudson88
Striker
It's pointless arguing with him, what WHED says must be true.
Cos he goes to lots and lots of games you know
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safcdccc
Guest
Harmison isn't interested. Claimed an injury last season, yet was hosting golf events at Slaley Hall :roll: - Can't be bad for a reported 150k a year. Little wonder a lot are pissed off with him
Been going for about 5 year now on a regular basis, before that it was just the T20 games.
Can't say I've heard the age excuse down at the ground this season or at the end of last season. I'll stand by what I've said, I'm not making the age excuse as it's embarrassing to make such an excuse. Discipline and confidence is all over the place, nothing to do with age.
Everyone entitled to their opinion of course but I do notice it seems to be those from outside mentioning age as an excuse, which is the easy thing to immeadiately mention.
The members Q&A will be interesting on July 27th.
I'm simply disagreeing with what he is saying and commenting that I've never heard the age excuse been made at the games :roll:
Tough shit if you don't like my opinion.
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hudson88
Striker
You say its all about opinions and people are entitled to their own, yet keep belittling people's opinions claiming its cos they're 'on the outside'. Are you inside like? You're opinion better and more valid because you go to games?
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mickey
Guest
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safcdccc
Guest
1 - I've said everyone is entitled to their opinion
2 - I've said I haven't heard the age excuse at the games. Members who have been going for donkeys years.
3 - I've said the only people I hear making this age excuse are people who I assume don't go to the games/haven't been for a long time.
4 - I don't agree with the age excuse.
5 - My opinion is equally as good as your opinion
Get yourself down to a game and support the lads if you can (obviously work etc comes first). Next home LVCC game is over a weekend.
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Age can't be ignored even if only as a reason to bring fresh blood in. OK, age may not be the cause for a dip in form, however age is a reason for MDV's retirement and age will be the reason for Benk and Colly calling it a day in the not so distant future. Therefore, we need to freshen up. While the club can't be blamed for MDV retiring, they can be blamed for not having any opening batsman replacement whatsoever when they must have known such a decision was on the horizon.
As The Colonel and Breen Machine have mentioned, there has been little to no new men brought in over the last 5 years and that's why we've gone from Champions to relgation in a short space of time. Contrast our fortunes to someone like Notts, who have constantly brought in new blood and you can see how we've been complacent in the recruitment side of things.
As The Colonel and Breen Machine have mentioned, there has been little to no new men brought in over the last 5 years and that's why we've gone from Champions to relgation in a short space of time. Contrast our fortunes to someone like Notts, who have constantly brought in new blood and you can see how we've been complacent in the recruitment side of things.
The Breen Machine
Striker
Even if they are pissed off with him, it's an awful excuse to use to try and justify a selection of players having a shit season. I'm sure these same players were more than happy when Harmison was frightening county attacks all over the country and leading us to 2 county championships. His attitude can be questionable in terms of getting him on the pitch, but no one knows the reaal story, 34 year, 6ft 6', spent 15 years bowling full pelt, should be expected that he's going to struggle a bit with injury and lack of potency at this stage of his career. Seems some are making him a scapegoat for the failings of others.
Fair enough, well done, not sure how you can put me in the outsider category given that you know nothing about me and I remember going to the University ground before the Riverside was even built, member throughout my teenage years, funnily enough only got rid of that once work came along.
If the age excuse isn't being made, I'd like to know what excuses are? - I'm not saying all our ageing players have suddenly turned shite, but the club haven't tried to continue moving forward and a result the playing staff has deterioated in quality as injuries and age catch up on some (Harmy, MDV). Brandon makes a great example by pointing at how Notts have brought in fresh blood like Lumb, Gurney, Taylor while they lose players such as Broad and Swann to England, and others through retirement like Wagh, Gallian and letting Sidebottom go through not offerng him a 3 year contract due to his age.
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safcdccc
Guest
Certainly agree age cannot be ignored but to me the discipline is all over the place and certain decisions that have been made have been poor to say the least both on and off the pitch. For example bringing Harmison and Plunkett in for the Somerset away game and dropping Thorp
The opening batting for the LVCC is a concern now MDV has retired. Smith has been carrying the drinks in the T20, something I can't understand when their was a great chance for him to get some batting practice against Northants at Brandon (if it's good enough for MDV to play in, surely it's good enough for Smith to play in??)
I just think it's a case with finances at the club, which the finger needs to be pointed at those at the top. A reported 150k a year for Harmison
On the flip side we have young talent such as Harrison, Stokes and Borthwick maturing and others doing well in the 2nd XI such as Wood (in the 16 man squad for today), Raine, Richardson and Jennings (scoring runs for fun).
Will be interesting to see who leaves in the winter, hopefully it allows us to bring in some new players and give others a chance.
3 of the best players in the division are what I'd class as "old", hence why I don't buy into the age excuse much.
Chapple - Great player
Adams - Nothing else needs to be said
Benkenstein - 1500 runs last season at the age of 37?
Looking at the latest MVP rankings (yes I know :roll
, the following are in the top 12;Peter Trego - 31 year old
Andre Adams - 38 year old?
Tim Murtagh - 30 year old
Alan Richardson - 37 year old (just signed a new 2 year contract)
Glen Chapple - 38 year old
Jon Lewis - 36 year old
Steve Magoffin - 32 year old
Hardly youngsters eh?
Gibbs is about 38 and he was one of our best players in the T20, age eh?
The Breen Machine
Striker
Certainly agree age cannot be ignored but to me the discipline is all over the place and certain decisions that have been made have been poor to say the least both on and off the pitch. For example bringing Harmison and Plunkett in for the Somerset away game and dropping Thorp
The opening batting for the LVCC is a concern now MDV has retired. Smith has been carrying the drinks in the T20, something I can't understand when their was a great chance for him to get some batting practice against Northants at Brandon (if it's good enough for MDV to play in, surely it's good enough for Smith to play in??)
I just think it's a case with finances at the club, which the finger needs to be pointed at those at the top. A reported 150k a year for Harmison
On the flip side we have young talent such as Harrison, Stokes and Borthwick maturing and others doing well in the 2nd XI such as Wood (in the 16 man squad for today), Raine, Richardson and Jennings (scoring runs for fun).
Will be interesting to see who leaves in the winter, hopefully it allows us to bring in some new players and give others a chance.
3 of the best players in the division are what I'd class as "old", hence why I don't buy into the age excuse much.
Chapple - Great player
Adams - Nothing else needs to be said
Benkenstein - 1500 runs last season at the age of 37?
Looking at the latest MVP rankings (yes I know :roll
Peter Trego - 31 year old
Andre Adams - 38 year old?
Tim Murtagh - 30 year old
Alan Richardson - 37 year old (just signed a new 2 year contract)
Glen Chapple - 38 year old
Jon Lewis - 36 year old
Steve Magoffin - 32 year old
Hardly youngsters eh?
Gibbs is about 38 and he was one of our best players in the T20, age eh?
Andre Adams is nowhere near 38 btw.
I hope you have noticed, from all those MVP rankings, there are no 2 players from a county. I am all for good, solid, experienced performers - the best batsman in the country IMO is 36 year old Marcus Trescothick, it's when your squad is filled with players of that age that you do have a problem.
The top 3 in division one are Warwickshire, Notts and Middlesex - how many over 30's do they cater for?. Darren Maddy, Chris Read off the top of my head, other than that I'm struggling to name anyone else who gets regular games for them who are pushing mid 30's.
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