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Anderson finished?

stapler said:
Well I'm not one of them. But I think we need to take stock of our aging attack and start bringing the next generation through. One of England's biggest issues in the past (with bat and ball) is to become over-reliant on an aging group, watching them all retire at about the same time, and then having no experience to guide the younger players.
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We have tried to do that anyway with Archer, Stone, Tongue etc. Robinson, Woakes and Wood still have a few years left. The likes of Carse would have been involved before Tongue. However they have to be good enough. Athers was saying he doesn’t see much coming through.
 

rentaghost said:
We have tried to do that anyway with Archer, Stone, Tongue etc. Robinson, Woakes and Wood still have a few years left. The likes of Carse would have been involved before Tongue. However they have to be good enough. Athers was saying he doesn’t see much coming through.
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How much county cricket is Atherton watching? I have concerns about the fitness of Woakes and Robinson to discard Anderson completely

What is not helpful is someone like Tongue showing something then been discarded for the next two tests. In typical England fashion, we will likely see him again in Brisbane. What has Ahmed done to be discarded from the scene so quickly? Most county bowlers will not come in and set the world alight but will need a bit of time. Unfortunately, Stokes is being given licence to pick who he wants so is looking at the hear and now.

It is very concerning that in this last test our attack was Broad (37 years old), Anderson (41), Wood (33) and Woakes (34) not withstanding we bought Ali (36) back. The Oval is a perfect opportunity to play Tongue and Ahmed as is should offer pace, bounce and spin. However, the vast majority are discussing whether Anderson should play.

County cricket only tells you so much about a cricketer. As an example, Potts takes lots of wickets for Durham but not sure he is test class as an example

Referring to Anderson's record in Australia below, when are England going to change tact and realise 79-85mph bowlers are not the route to go in Australia? If Jimmy cant do it there what chance the rest?

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essex boy said:
How much county cricket is Atherton watching? I have concerns about the fitness of Woakes and Robinson to discard Anderson completely

What is not helpful is someone like Tongue showing something then been discarded for the next two tests. In typical England fashion, we will likely see him again in Brisbane. What has Ahmed done to be discarded from the scene so quickly? Most county bowlers will not come in and set the world alight but will need a bit of time. Unfortunately, Stokes is being given licence to pick who he wants so is looking at the hear and now.

It is very concerning that in this last test our attack was Broad (37 years old), Anderson (41), Wood (33) and Woakes (34) not withstanding we bought Ali (36) back. The Oval is a perfect opportunity to play Tongue and Ahmed as is should offer pace, bounce and spin. However, the vast majority are discussing whether Anderson should play.
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It’s not concerning at all Robinson, Stone, Archer and Carse were all crocked or just returning and would have been involved in discussion if they hadn’t been. Atherton will know a fair bit as much from his connections in the game as how much he has seen. Gus Atkinson at Surrey is supposed to be the next cab off the rank but I’ve no idea if he’s good enough.
 
rentaghost said:
It’s not concerning at all Robinson, Stone, Archer and Carse were all crocked or just returning and would have been involved in discussion if they hadn’t been. Atherton will know a fair bit as much from his connections in the game as how much he has seen. Gus Atkinson at Surrey is supposed to be the next cab off the rank but I’ve no idea if he’s good enough.
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Overton showed enough in his last test but has been discarded from the scene. What has happened to him? I don't believe Australia have 10 quicks chomping at the bit who are all test class

The reality is if Wood and Archer are fit for the Ashes down under, get picked, we will likely win
 
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Sillypoint said:
listening to Harmy on the radio, he thinks that Jimmy should be given a send off at the Oval next week, and i tend to agree, no point keeping him hanging on to play against New Zealand next year in the winter & a few home tests next summer, He's 41 no matter how fit he keeps himself he cant go on forever.
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One thing that I find odd is the presumption that Jimmy won’t go to India, when he was our most effective bowler on the tour just 30 months ago, with the best economy rate of any bowler on either side, and the best average of any England bowler. And the reason he was effective is less likely to be blunted if he’s lost a bit of pace than the reason he has historically been effective in England, as it concerns his control.

If he still up for it, then I think there’s a better case to take him to India than there is to play him on Thursday.
 
rentaghost said:
We have tried to do that anyway with Archer, Stone, Tongue etc. Robinson, Woakes and Wood still have a few years left. The likes of Carse would have been involved before Tongue. However they have to be good enough. Athers was saying he doesn’t see much coming through.
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That's the rub though.

Jimmy Anderson was deemed "not good enough" umpteen times in his early-mid career by selectors, captains, commentators and fans alike.

If he hadn't had such a good debut series, he could have disappeared from the international scene very quickly.

Yet he went on to be the leading seamer wicket taker of all time. England's best ever bowler.

Young players need to be given a chance. Cricketers get better with experience.
 
essex boy said:
How much county cricket is Atherton watching? I have concerns about the fitness of Woakes and Robinson to discard Anderson completely

What is not helpful is someone like Tongue showing something then been discarded for the next two tests. In typical England fashion, we will likely see him again in Brisbane. What has Ahmed done to be discarded from the scene so quickly? Most county bowlers will not come in and set the world alight but will need a bit of time. Unfortunately, Stokes is being given licence to pick who he wants so is looking at the hear and now.

It is very concerning that in this last test our attack was Broad (37 years old), Anderson (41), Wood (33) and Woakes (34) not withstanding we bought Ali (36) back. The Oval is a perfect opportunity to play Tongue and Ahmed as is should offer pace, bounce and spin. However, the vast majority are discussing whether Anderson should play.

County cricket only tells you so much about a cricketer. As an example, Potts takes lots of wickets for Durham but not sure he is test class as an example

Referring to Anderson's record in Australia below, when are England going to change tact and realise 79-85mph bowlers are not the route to go in Australia? If Jimmy cant do it there what chance the rest?

You must be logged on to see external links
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I agree to a point but The issue about Englands bowlers in Australia is as much down to our batsmen getting meagre totals and our bowlers having no runs to play with, defensive fields etc.

The one year that wasn’t the case when your mate Cooky scored all those runs Anderson had a great series. Our other bowlers who were succesful such as Tremlett were hardly rapid either. You can only go with what you have. If we don’t have 90mph bowlers with a bit of quality we can’t pick them. It’s easy to say who you shouldn’t pick a lot harder to say who you should.
 
rentaghost said:
I agree to a point but The issue about Englands bowlers in Australia is as much down to our batsmen getting meagre totals and our bowlers having no runs to play with, defensive fields etc.

The one year that wasn’t the case when your mate Cooky scored all those runs Anderson had a great series. Our other bowlers who were succesful such as Tremlett were hardly rapid either. You can only go with what you have. If we don’t have 90mph bowlers with a bit of quality we can’t pick them. It’s easy to say who you shouldn’t pick a lot harder to say who you should.
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All fair points. I just think generally on flat pitches we are imbalanced picking 3 x 79-85mph bowlers. It may not seem much but Tongue bowling at 87mph makes a difference at test level. In this series we had the option available and did not use it

The biggest thing about going to Australia is having 2 x 4 day games as a warm up. I would also advocate England exploring the possibility of taking someone like Buttler to open and play like a 50 over game which is what England do pretty much. Our scoring rate is 4.8 an over on average since Bazball so Buttler likely to go at 6 which gives you 300 in 50 overs
 
SAFC 2012 said:
Not thinking about retirement as he’s still hungry.

His words
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He's not had the same wicket taking ability. But he's been great away from home for us in recent years.

Broad has a hideous record in India(61 average) and Jimmy has good record in India(29 average)

They are our next test matches and Wood/Robinson ain't playing 5 tests. Can't play with no seamers.

Woakes should never leave the country again in whites.
 
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mackembhoy said:
He's not had the same wicket taking ability. But he's been great away from home for us in recent years.

Broad has a hideous record in India(61 average) and Jimmy has good record in India(29 average)

They are our next test matches and Wood/Robinson ain't playing 5 tests. Can't play with no seamers.

Woakes should never leave the country again in whites.
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Tbf it’s quite worrying for the future because there seems to be absolutely fuck all coming through the ranks
 
SAFC 2012 said:
Tbf it’s quite worrying for the future because there seems to be absolutely fuck all coming through the ranks
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I would argue that Broad and Jimmy have picked themselves for a number of years. Robinson and Wood have been added to that dynamic over recent years

Thus, very difficult to ascertain what is coming through as nobody gets a decent run of games ala Ahmed, Tongue and the quicker Overton. All showed enough to get a run of games but most got jetisonned. Stokes is clearly picking the side his way for the hear and how
 
rentaghost said:
We have tried to do that anyway with Archer, Stone, Tongue etc. Robinson, Woakes and Wood still have a few years left. The likes of Carse would have been involved before Tongue. However they have to be good enough. Athers was saying he doesn’t see much coming through.
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I see stone has had a further setback again
 
Anderson takes his wickets at 32 at the Oval. Not a ringing endorsement to be kept on being picked in this series

If my maths are correct that means a side would get 640 runs over two innings which would be enough to win 8 out of 10 tests
 
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