Advice needed - emergency dementia care

[Goat Eyes]

I think you’ve misinterpreted this completely. There are more than one million people living with dementia in the U.K. There are roughly 450k care homes beds in total. That’s old age, dementia, mental health, learning disabilities and physical disabilities including brain injury/ stroke etc. The overwhelming majority of people with a diagnosis of dementia are not in care settings. There’s also very good evidence that you should avoid care homes until there is no other option as people tend to deteriorate cognitively quicker and be less independent when not in their own environments.
In this instance the support for mum and dad was in place for them to manage but that’s changed quickly. Not everyone lives ten minutes away from parents and can’t be there immediately. Hells husband is already on the way and they are trying to make arrangements to ensure he and mum are fine and ideally able to stay at home as is almost certainly their preferred wish. I agree- I hope their children are considerate and compassionate enough to listen to their wishes, keep them as independent as possible at home for as long as possible and are willing to drop everything to drive to Devon as soon as needed. I’ll be very happy if my son is the same when I need him.
I’m sure it wasn’t your intention but you’ve jumped in and been unnecessarily judgmental and unkind.

Don’t give him the time of day. He’s a nuisance and needs a lifetime ban from this place, for his own sanity.

I hope he then gets the help he needs too.

 

[Scorer]

Aye that’s them. Two hours this morning and still didn’t get through. Back trying now.
.

Finally got through. Social Services don't do emergency care. The Doctors arrange that. Which is really f***ing annoying given we spoke to the doctors first thing this morning and they didn't seem to have a Scooby when we asked them.

Not sure that’s entirely true, once aware of a vulnerable person with eligible care needs the LA have a duty of care. The local carers trust will have lots of experience in dealing with similar situations.

Home - Devon Carers

Becoming a carer can happen gradually or it may have been a sudden change in circumstances. Devon Carers can support you.

devoncarers.org.uk

 

[HellsBells]

If it was nearer Me and the Mrs would have sat with him until your wife got there but hope you all OK mate @HellsBells

Thanks so much for the offer mate.

I think you’ve misinterpreted this completely. There are more than one million people living with dementia in the U.K. There are roughly 450k care homes beds in total. That’s old age, dementia, mental health, learning disabilities and physical disabilities including brain injury/ stroke etc. The overwhelming majority of people with a diagnosis of dementia are not in care settings. There’s also very good evidence that you should avoid care homes until there is no other option as people tend to deteriorate cognitively quicker and be less independent when not in their own environments.
In this instance the support for mum and dad was in place for them to manage but that’s changed quickly. Not everyone lives ten minutes away from parents and can’t be there immediately. Hells husband is already on the way and they are trying to make arrangements to ensure he and mum are fine and ideally able to stay at home as is almost certainly their preferred wish. I agree- I hope their children are considerate and compassionate enough to listen to their wishes, keep them as independent as possible at home for as long as possible and are willing to drop everything to drive to Devon as soon as needed. I’ll be very happy if my son is the same when I need him.
I’m sure it wasn’t your intention but you’ve jumped in and been unnecessarily judgmental and unkind.

Thank you.

To be honest, one of the reasons we are in the situation we are in is because they really don’t want to leave Devon, independently in their home of 15 years, and we’ve respected their wishes despite it being a lot easier if they were closer.

I suspect the conversation may change after this but we aren’t going to force them to leave somewhere they love. And of course the further the dementia gets the harder it will be for him to accept a change anyway, so it’s a balance.

Not sure that’s entirely true, once aware of a vulnerable person with eligible care needs the LA have a duty of care. The local carers trust will have lots of experience in dealing with similar situations.

Home - Devon Carers

Becoming a carer can happen gradually or it may have been a sudden change in circumstances. Devon Carers can support you.

devoncarers.org.uk

Thanks. I spoke to them at lunchtime and they were helpful with signposting, albeit they couldn’t put any emergency care in place.

 

[The King of Um]

Hope you get something sorted @HellsBells. Is horrible being some distance away, and trying to juggle elderly relatives' wish to keep their independence,

For those responding to him, @Iamme's whole persona on here (as opposed to PF or Cricket) is being a monumental rancid arsehole in almost every post. There's either something wrong with him, or he's a sock puppet for a regular who is a terrible person.

 

[HellsBells]

Hope you get something sorted @HellsBells. Is horrible being some distance away, and trying to juggle elderly relatives' wish to keep their independence,

For those responding to him, @Iamme's whole persona on here (as opposed to PF or Cricket) is being a monumental rancid arsehole in almost every post. There's either something wrong with him, or he's a sock puppet for a regular who is a terrible person.

Thanks mate

Other half has made it there and MIL has been discharged. I think we cobbled together a bit of neighbour help, charity help, and just good timing so that he wasn’t left alone. And I’ve managed to speak to Social Services and we are going to chat about longer term care.

Thanks to everyone who helped.

 

[Quench]

Hope you get something sorted @HellsBells. Is horrible being some distance away, and trying to juggle elderly relatives' wish to keep their independence,

For those responding to him, @Iamme's whole persona on here (as opposed to PF or Cricket) is being a monumental rancid arsehole in almost every post. There's either something wrong with him, or he's a sock puppet for a regular who is a terrible person.

Looks like the post has been reported and appropriately moderated. Deserves a ban

Thanks mate

Other half has made it there and MIL has been discharged. I think we cobbled together a bit of neighbour help, charity help, and just good timing so that he wasn’t left alone. And I’ve managed to speak to Social Services and we are going to chat about longer term care.

Thanks to everyone who helped.

Glad it's sorted, having gone through similar myself I know how stressful it is. Hope social services do their job well, Northumberland were excellent.

 

[EchoMan]

Thanks mate

Other half has made it there and MIL has been discharged. I think we cobbled together a bit of neighbour help, charity help, and just good timing so that he wasn’t left alone. And I’ve managed to speak to Social Services and we are going to chat about longer term care.

Thanks to everyone who helped.

Try the Alzheimer’s Society. Of all the people we tried to get help from for me Mam they were tops.

 

[cornish mackem]

I was on hold (ringing out) for two hours over lunch time. Couldn’t get through to Social Services. Going to try again now.

Which area in Devon ?

 

[SAFCOldie]

Thanks mate

Other half has made it there and MIL has been discharged. I think we cobbled together a bit of neighbour help, charity help, and just good timing so that he wasn’t left alone. And I’ve managed to speak to Social Services and we are going to chat about longer term care.

Thanks to everyone who helped.

Good community is everything and I'm really pleased to hear you've got something sorted.

 

[RTRsBM]

Thanks mate

Other half has made it there and MIL has been discharged. I think we cobbled together a bit of neighbour help, charity help, and just good timing so that he wasn’t left alone. And I’ve managed to speak to Social Services and we are going to chat about longer term care.

Thanks to everyone who helped.

What would have been the outcome if your husband hadn’t got there in time or no neighbors could help? would there have been any official help? Would he even have been able to get into the house? A horrendous situation to be in for you all.

 

[HellsBells]

Which area in Devon ?

North Devon. Biddeford.

Question for you if you don’t mind - in this situation, if you pick up someone and realise that there is a spouse with dementia who is going to be left behind, what are you supposed to do?

We were lucky that the volunteer for his outreach project arrived as the paramedics were there, and took him away but if they weren’t, what’s the normal protocol? (So we know for next time).

What would have been the outcome if your husband hadn’t got there in time or no neighbors could help? would there have been any official help? Would he even have been able to get into the house? A horrendous situation to be in for you all.

That was exactly my worry. I think the answer is supposed to be that the GP sorts out some “Response and Recovery” team. But they didn’t.

It just feels like there are so many holes in this safety net.

 

[cornish mackem]

North Devon. Biddeford.

Question for you if you don’t mind - in this situation, if you pick up someone and realise that there is a spouse with dementia who is going to be left behind, what are you supposed to do?

We were lucky that the volunteer for his outreach project arrived as the paramedics were there, and took him away but if they weren’t, what’s the normal protocol? (So we know for next time).

That was exactly my worry. I think the answer is supposed to be that the GP sorts out some “Response and Recovery” team. But they didn’t.

It just feels like there are so many holes in this safety net.

We would contact the on call social worker and raise a safeguarding. We have separate policies in place for adults and kids. I’ve taken the person not unwell to hospital before if I couldn’t keep them safe .

 

[Scorer]

We would contact the on call social worker and raise a safeguarding. We have separate policies in place for adults and kids. I’ve taken the person not unwell to hospital before if I couldn’t keep them safe .

I’m surprised this didn’t happen, usually paramedics are really good at this stuff and actually often a bit bolshy with social services. ( in a good way).

 

[HellsBells]

I’m surprised this didn’t happen, usually paramedics are really good at this stuff and actually often a bit bolshy with social services. ( in a good way).

Because he was getting picked up by a volunteer outreach I think they passed on the responsibility to them. Like I said earlier i won’t have a go at the paramedics because their job is hard enough.

 

[rudd]

Local Authority have an obligation as defined by the Care Act to offer an assessment of needs. If it's identified that the person has urgent needs, such as current care being withdrawn or no longer being available they should meet that persons needs immediately whilst awaiting a full planned assessment.
Sounds like local authority are passing the buck. They usually stop doing so when you mention the Care Act.

Been involved in cases where there has been an assessment and plans for emergency carers are agreed for the future should the main care giver be unable, such as them being admitted to hospital. Might be worth seeing if local authority will do this,

 

[HellsBells]

Local Authority have an obligation as defined by the Care Act to offer an assessment of needs. If it's identified that the person has urgent needs, such as current care being withdrawn or no longer being available they should meet that persons needs immediately whilst awaiting a full planned assessment.
SOunds like local authority are passing the buck. They usually stop doing so when you mention the Care Act.

The problem is the local authority didn’t know that care was withdrawn because it was so sudden. I’m not even sure how they are supposed to find out and what that process looks like.

 

[Scorer]

Because he was getting picked up by a volunteer outreach I think they passed on the responsibility to them. Like I said earlier i won’t have a go at the paramedics because their job is hard enough.

Probably exactly how it happened. The volunteer project probably don’t have quite the same sway as a statutory emergency service with social services unfortunately.
Although things seem a little better it’s worth pursuing social services and asking for a review of support needs and a caters review. Might also be worth looking at things like Assistive technology so you can be reassured things are okay when not nearby. There are lots of systems but something like:

Home monitoring for older adults with Dementia & Alzheimer's

Is someone you love becoming forgetful or has Dementia or Alzheimer's? Just Checking shows an overview of daily activity around the home, helping older adults stay independent for longer

justchecking.co.uk

Worth thinking about GPS if there is a risk of wandering too.

 

[HellsBells]

Probably exactly how it happened. The volunteer project probably don’t have quite the same sway as a statutory emergency service with social services unfortunately.
Although things seem a little better it’s worth pursuing social services and asking for a review of support needs and a caters review. Might also be worth looking at things like Assistive technology so you can be reassured things are okay when not nearby. There are lots of systems but something like:

Home monitoring for older adults with Dementia & Alzheimer's

Is someone you love becoming forgetful or has Dementia or Alzheimer's? Just Checking shows an overview of daily activity around the home, helping older adults stay independent for longer

justchecking.co.uk

Worth thinking about GPS if there is a risk of wandering too.

We’ve got an AirTag on him.

Thankfully social Services are calling today to do a review.

 

[Scorer]

The problem is the local authority didn’t know that care was withdrawn because it was so sudden. I’m not even sure how they are supposed to find out and what that process looks like.

As mentioned before the paramedics or the volunteer if not family. They absolutely should be able to sort something quickly though for a respite bed. In my region tge caters trust tend to do cater assessment and would look at potential need for emergency respite. It’s referred to as CRESS.
In Devon it may well be different. The LA website has some info but not a huge amount.

Breaks for carers and replacement care

Contact us to request a carers assessment. We will look at your needs as a carer and support you to take a break or find replacement care.

www.devon.gov.uk

 

[Georgewhitt]

We would contact the on call social worker and raise a safeguarding. We have separate policies in place for adults and kids. I’ve taken the person not unwell to hospital before if I couldn’t keep them safe .

Also, if the staff taking the initial emergency call in the Control Centre were made aware that there was a vulnerable person potentially to be left alone, a safeguarding would have been raised even before the paramedics arrived in many cases.
Sometimes the true situation doesn't become apparent until the paramedics get on scene.