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A system set up to fail

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Coeus

Coeus

Striker
When so much onus is put upon the short term, a club is destined to fail in the long term imo.

You have a manager, that if he didn't before, will well and truly understand that he is only a month or two poor form away from the fans turning. This means he has to look at the immediate.

This will affect everything, style of play, transfers, confidence.

Similar to the owners, the plan is to build on the momentum for the immediate. Sell off the youngsters for low fee's while panic buying a striker at well over value. I don't doubt that the meaning isn't absolutely correct, it's just backwards imo. When you buy someone over value, you don't half ramp up the pressure so in a way, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Almost all weird decisions can be explained by this onus on the short term. The question is quite rightly being asked of the tactics, what happened to high pressing and why did this cautious approach take over? Well, the decision appears to have been made because we were leaking early goals and we have enough quality in McGeady & formerly Maja to win the game, so keep it safe. This alleviates the possible turning of the fans and certainly stops individual criticism should they lose the ball. We tried to play ourselves out of danger once against Oxford, the first time we had done it in weeks and we received a free kick, had we lost the ball and Oxford scored, there would have been hell to pay for the offender, why bother?

I'll stop prattling on now, but there you have it. A system set up to fail, if you can and do build momentum it will eventually crash and unless the onus, club-wide changes, we will never outperform.

TLDR = Manager is immaterial. Owners and fans fault.
 

More excuses. You've seen the standard in the league yourself, we aren't playing well it's as simple as that and I don't think it has anything to do with short-termism.

In the short-term we do need to get out of this league from a financial aspect. We're Sunderland in league one mate, we should be challenging for promotion, which we are.

Fans are behind Ross and the players, but performances still need to improve.
 
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OohBaldyBally said:
“Sell off the youngsters for low fee's while panic buying a striker at well over value.”

You seriously think that was the plan?

You’ve undermined your entire post there mate.
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I'm sorry you've lost me?

What part have I undermined?

Regardless of any plan, they have sold off the kids and overpaid for a striker. I believe they have done so because all-encompassing importance placed on now.
 
We aren't "failing", for goodness sake. We just aren't doing as well as we should be.

Failing would be sitting in 12th place, not 9 points off the top with 3 games in hand!
 
MrOompapa said:
We aren't "failing", for goodness sake. We just aren't doing as well as we should be.

Failing would be sitting in 12th place, not 9 points off the top with 3 games in hand!
Click to expand...

I'm not getting my point across obviously. I'm not suggesting that our current league position is a failure. My intended point would be similar if we were top.
 
Walmo said:
So are you saying we should continue doing what isn’t working?
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No, what I'm suggesting is changing the weight of importance from the present to the future.

I could waffle on for hours and not make a lot of sense but my point is currently everything in the club is geared towards now, it will cost us long term unless a person will bankroll all the mistakes.

What if the aim wasn't to get promoted this season and next and it was in ten years time we will be geared up to be a self-financing top ten premiership team. How would decisions being made now be different?
 
Coeus said:
No, what I'm suggesting is changing the weight of importance from the present to the future.

I could waffle on for hours and not make a lot of sense but my point is currently everything in the club is geared towards now, it will cost us long term unless a person will bankroll all the mistakes.

What if the aim wasn't to get promoted this season and next and it was in ten years time we will be geared up to be a self-financing top ten premiership team. How would decisions being made now be different?
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Everything is geared towards the now? Sorry like but that’s just nonsense.
 
SAFC 2012 said:
The amount of excuses our fans make is unbelievable like .

Its genuinely the worst standard league ive ever seen and we somehow are still managing to look shite every week

The excuses need to stop. That teasm should be pissing this league and blowing teams away
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I'm interested in what you feel I am excusing as it is not my point to excuse anything?

Walmo said:
Everything is geared towards the now? Sorry like but that’s just nonsense.
Click to expand...

I'm open to a discussion as to why?

Selling off the 14,15 and 16-year-olds and investing a large amount of money on a striker because of the potential backlash if you don't, appears short term thinking on everyone part to me.
 
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Coeus said:
When so much onus is put upon the short term, a club is destined to fail in the long term imo.

You have a manager, that if he didn't before, will well and truly understand that he is only a month or two poor form away from the fans turning. This means he has to look at the immediate.

This will affect everything, style of play, transfers, confidence.

Similar to the owners, the plan is to build on the momentum for the immediate. Sell off the youngsters for low fee's while panic buying a striker at well over value. I don't doubt that the meaning isn't absolutely correct, it's just backwards imo. When you buy someone over value, you don't half ramp up the pressure so in a way, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Almost all weird decisions can be explained by this onus on the short term. The question is quite rightly being asked of the tactics, what happened to high pressing and why did this cautious approach take over? Well, the decision appears to have been made because we were leaking early goals and we have enough quality in McGeady & formerly Maja to win the game, so keep it safe. This alleviates the possible turning of the fans and certainly stops individual criticism should they lose the ball. We tried to play ourselves out of danger once against Oxford, the first time we had done it in weeks and we received a free kick, had we lost the ball and Oxford scored, there would have been hell to pay for the offender, why bother?

I'll stop prattling on now, but there you have it. A system set up to fail, if you can and do build momentum it will eventually crash and unless the onus, club-wide changes, we will never outperform.

TLDR = Manager is immaterial. Owners and fans fault.
Click to expand...

Thank god someone out there can see this is not a computer game
 
Coeus said:
I'm interested in what you feel I am excusing as it is not my point to excuse anything?



I'm open to a discussion as to why?

Selling off the 14,15 and 16-year-olds and investing a large amount of money on a striker because of the potential backlash if you don't, appears short term thinking on everyone part to me.
Click to expand...
Why are people not able to grasp the fact that we CAN’T keep hold of the under 17 players, it’s not our decision, there’s literally nothing we can do to stop it, how many times does this need to be said?

Remaining in League 2 is not long term planning. We haven’t done anything we can’t afford to do. The owners have made huge strides this season in all aspects of the business towards the long term running of the club, are you really doubting this?
 
Walmo said:
Why are people not able to grasp the fact that we CAN’T keep hold of the under 17 players, it’s not our decision, there’s literally nothing we can do to stop it, how many times does this need to be said?

Remaining in League 2 is not long term planning. We haven’t done anything we can’t afford to do. The owners have made huge strides this season in all aspects of the business towards the long term running of the club, are you really doubting this?
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We accepted offers for our youth players, we did not even attempt to keep some of them when they were open to staying, that is from a players father.

Regardless of how many times you or someone else say something, it isn't necessarily true, you may be mistaken?

Stuart has spoken about youth players might make it, may not. That to me is short-sighted and hinting toward a bias to the here and now.

Am I doubting that they have made strides towards increasing the income, no, and that's great but it won't make the difference down the line. One of those young lads could eclipse many years worth of advertising income with one transfer.

This isn't a hack job of the owners, I believe they felt they had to sign Grigg for too much money because of a potential backlash from fans that would ruin any type of feel-good around the place. My point is that pressure will continue to promote bad long term decisions.
 
Coeus said:
I'm interested in what you feel I am excusing as it is not my point to excuse anything?



I'm open to a discussion as to why?

Selling off the 14,15 and 16-year-olds and investing a large amount of money on a striker because of the potential backlash if you don't, appears short term thinking on everyone part to me.
Click to expand...
We are not SELLING them, they are not under contract and cannot be until they are 17. They are free to leave to any team who desires them, whenever they like; we are then awarded a compensation amount, and said players move from a League 1 team to (in this case) a PL one.

Coeus said:
We accepted offers for our youth players
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There were no 'offers' to accept or reject.
 
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Coeus said:
When so much onus is put upon the short term, a club is destined to fail in the long term imo.

You have a manager, that if he didn't before, will well and truly understand that he is only a month or two poor form away from the fans turning. This means he has to look at the immediate.

This will affect everything, style of play, transfers, confidence.

Similar to the owners, the plan is to build on the momentum for the immediate. Sell off the youngsters for low fee's while panic buying a striker at well over value. I don't doubt that the meaning isn't absolutely correct, it's just backwards imo. When you buy someone over value, you don't half ramp up the pressure so in a way, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Almost all weird decisions can be explained by this onus on the short term. The question is quite rightly being asked of the tactics, what happened to high pressing and why did this cautious approach take over? Well, the decision appears to have been made because we were leaking early goals and we have enough quality in McGeady & formerly Maja to win the game, so keep it safe. This alleviates the possible turning of the fans and certainly stops individual criticism should they lose the ball. We tried to play ourselves out of danger once against Oxford, the first time we had done it in weeks and we received a free kick, had we lost the ball and Oxford scored, there would have been hell to pay for the offender, why bother?

I'll stop prattling on now, but there you have it. A system set up to fail, if you can and do build momentum it will eventually crash and unless the onus, club-wide changes, we will never outperform.

TLDR = Manager is immaterial. Owners and fans fault.
Click to expand...

Drifted off after the first sentence....like one of wa attacks....
 
when we are talking about giving the kids 3 or 4 hundred quid a week, and the Liverpools, city etc come along and say we will give you 2 grand a week, what chance gave we got ?
even the most servant safc fan would take the 2k a week at 16 year old, that's before you've even played a senior game. a 2 year deal sees your mortgage paid off for the rest of your life ! #nobrainer
this is what's going on ^ FACT
 
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