A breakdown of trust

[North Yorks Mackem]

To be fair, why should the burden be on the media to bring your plight to the fore when your supporter base has done very little to do it themselves?

The vast majority have sat on their hands and done nothing while you've plummeted down the divisions for fear of looking 'mag-esque'

We didn't invent protests and it's a massive bone of contention to what result our protests have had but at least they have put pressure on Ashley in the media. Without them we could have been footnotes too.

You make a decent point, whilst the general undertone is unnecessary. We do need to do something now as a support. And we have. Approx 60% of season ticket holders haven't renewed. That's huge.

Due to the current climate visible protests arent an option. But you are right in that many of our support view such protests as being mag like. Its ridiculous tbh.

We could do with the likes of rawa organising something to get the media involved. I suspect they are afraid to do so due to the criticism they got in Jan. But all they had to do was canvas their membership. Unfortunately a few lads just decided amongst themselves they were going to do something. Huge mistake that. Think they're scared to do something now.

 

[Mackemansj1]

It is a strange thing like with alot of Sunderland fans, alot of them don't want to seem magesque or as bad fans by protesting or even voicing concern on a forum. I honestly have lost count in the years of posting on here that I've read stop being negative man and just get behind the team while I've posted concern over something on here. I never ever understand that how me raising concern in a discussion messageboard means I'm less of a true fan etc. We do have a strange Uber fan breed that now would rather be seen as good loyal fans rather than applying pressure on the powers that be.

 

[Grammar Police]

The backroom is filled with staff from a none league background. No surprise standards have fallen to none league levels.

Non.

 

[Eggman]

A lot of people will renew regardless how bad it gets. To many, it’s a day out with family/mates etc.

It’s hardly a day out when any games will be behind closed doors

 

[Wansbeck Viking]

It’s hardly a day out when any games will be behind closed doors

I meant in general, no matter how bad it gets, loads will renew for the social side.

 

[The Fish]

You could also ask, Blackburn, Leeds, Leicester, Southampton, wolves, and Man City fans the same question as they all went from premiership to league 1, not quite as dramatic as ours. From memory, I can’t remember any of those clubs having mass protests or banners etc. Blackburn rightly so protested against the Venkys which got a bit of press and I think Leeds had a few morons on the pitch when they went to league 1.

As it stands for us, we haven’t a clue what Donald’s plans are, we don’t know when we can get back into the ground, any protests will have to be done through media and like I mentioned earlier, I know loads who have said they simply aren’t going back as a protest.

Now this isn’t a dig, or because we are rivals but some of your protests have been embarrassing which didn’t have any effect, if anyone suggested to me to shout at a shop, I’d tell them perhaps it would be better to find a new hobby.

Don't disagree, but the aim was to draw attention to the issue and get pundits, journalists talking about it. In that regard, it was successful.

Around about the moyes relegation season I'd guess, when it became obvious that Short wasn't prepared to try and fix the issues with the side (understandably having already wasted so much money). Yes we had been badly run for a while prior, but there was always that sense that we weren't far off, and of course we'd kept on looking good at the end of the season, which naturally dampens any feeling of wanting to protest since we seemed to be on the up. Then there's the fact that he was spending, it's not like he was (at first) letting us sink, so I think a lot just hoped he'd eventually get someone competent in to run us, rather than leaving. Shorts money with a good CEO could have been great for us. Like I say once he stopped spending we knew he had to go, but by then he knew it as well and was just as desperate to get out since he was likely to lose more and more money.

From the outside I think, given the coverage of the lack of refund decision initially, it will just look like people sick of the owners. If it was apathy you'd have seen a huge drop this season just gone, which didn't happen.

As for organised action, again I've said why that didn't happen under Short, and Donald had enough people fooled early on that this is about the first time you'd really expect protests, which like I say we can't do. But because he won't be arsed about the minimal coverage they would get (regardless of what you say there would hardly be back page headlines about it!) I don't think any protest other than hitting him in the pocket will really work. There might be other protests though, depending on the mood of the fans the RAWA might organise something, but again it would have to be when we're back to some form of normality.

Agree with much of this, apart from the bit in bold. Apathy isn't an immediate thing, or a unilateral thing. Everybody will have their own limit so there'd be not be a huge drop, just a steady drop in attendances.

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

Don't disagree, but the aim was to draw attention to the issue and get pundits, journalists talking about it. In that regard, it was successful.

Agree with much of this, apart from the bit in bold. Apathy isn't an immediate thing, or a unilateral thing. Everybody will have their own limit so there'd be not be a huge drop, just a steady drop in attendances.

You're almost disproving your own point here mate! You say there wouldn't be a huge drop, but there would be a tailing off as people reach their own limits. I absolutely agree with you. So a second season (where numbers stay pretty similar, in fact they might even have risen iirc) followed by a sudden, massive drop of over 50% doesn't follow your expectation at all. To me, it suggests there's something more than simply half the fans suddenly getting apathetic at the same time. Like it suggests there's a pandemic meaning we don't know when we can attend and the club has said we can renew later without losing out on anything. Or that people are pissed off with the owner. And there will be some who are simply sick of league one. It's a multitude of reasons but the first one I mention is what I'd immediately think of when I saw the numbers.

 

[The Fish]

You're almost disproving your own point here mate! You say there wouldn't be a huge drop, but there would be a tailing of as people reach their own limits. I absolutely agree with you. So a second season (where numbers stay pretty similar, in fact they might even have risen iirc) followed by a sudden, massive drop of over 50% doesn't follow your expectation at all. To me, it suggests there's something more than simply half the fans suddenly getting apathetic at the same time. Like it suggests there's a pandemic meaning we don't know when we can attend and the club has said we can renew later without losing out on anything. Or that people are pissed off with the owner. And there will be some who are simply sick of league one. It's a multitude of reasons but the first one I mention is what I'd immediately think of when I saw the numbers.

It also could be that people throughout the season decided that this year, was their last year. That they'd already paid for their season ticket so they'd use it begrudgingly but wouldn't renew.

You might be right of course and this is fan action, but I've seen nothing to suggest it's organised, nothing to suggest it's anything more than individuals sacking off going to the match.

 

[Wansbeck Viking]

Don't disagree, but the aim was to draw attention to the issue and get pundits, journalists talking about it. In that regard, it was successful.

Agree with much of this, apart from the bit in bold. Apathy isn't an immediate thing, or a unilateral thing. Everybody will have their own limit so there'd be not be a huge drop, just a steady drop in attendances.

I’d prefer if the owner just sold up, rather than just getting journos talking about it.

Donald doesn’t seem arsed about the press, unless it’s something to do with his private life.

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

It also could be that people throughout the season decided that this year, was there' last year. That they'd already paid for their season ticket so they'd use it begrudgingly but wouldn't renew.

You might be right of course and this is fan action, but I've seen nothing to suggest it's organised, nothing to suggest it's anything more than individuals sacking off going to the match.

Again, I'm not saying it is fan action, and I know that nothing has been organised (albeit some people have decided of their own accord not to go back because of the owners). I'm saying the obvious reason for the sudden drop is the pandemic and lack of clarity about when and if the season will start. You were talking about the impression people will get from looking at the numbers, and I think they'll think "loads mustn't want to pay when they don't know when they can attend" rather than assuming everyone is just sick of being in league one

 

[The Fish]

I’d prefer if the owner just sold up, rather than just getting journos talking about it.

Donald doesn’t seem arsed about the press, unless it’s something to do with his private life.

Currently, there's not a lot of coverage on Sunderland's plight. Newcastle's ill-conceived, poorly executed protests did (if nothing else) get coverage. Now it's the consensus that Ashley has been a bad owner for Newcastle United. Even he's admitted it.

 

[Wansbeck Viking]

Currently, there's not a lot of coverage on Sunderland's plight. Newcastle's ill-conceived, poorly executed protests did (if nothing else) get coverage. Now it's the consensus that Ashley has been a bad owner for Newcastle United. Even he's admitted it.

We got coverage over our plight with Short, again, he wasn’t arsed. He put Bain in charge.

Donald will know he’s made an arse of it which is probably why he’s got the Rodwell fella running the show. He won’t budge till he gets the money he wants.

We are going round in circles here. What do you suggest our fan base does? Bearing in mind, our season got scrapped during a global pandemic.

 

[The Fish]

Again, I'm not saying it is fan action, and I know that nothing has been organised (albeit some people have decided of their own accord not to go back because of the owners). I'm saying the obvious reason for the sudden drop is the pandemic and lack of clarity about when and if the season will start. You were talking about the impression people will get from looking at the numbers, and I think they'll think "loads mustn't want to pay when they don't know when they can attend" rather than assuming everyone is just sick of being in league one

Sorry, maybe I've not been clear, i'm not talking about protests in the here and now, where the world is f***ing weird, but previously, when the world was sort of normal. I think that grabbing survival from the jaws of relegation for a few years did dampen any anger. I also think beating your local rivals helped sooth the anger on Wearside. But there wasn't any protest when you were in the Championship that I can remember. If Newcastle didn't look like they were going to get promoted, there would have been bedsheets all over the place, let alone get relegated.

We got coverage over our plight with Short, again, he wasn’t arsed. He put Bain in charge.

Donald will know he’s made an arse of it which is probably why he’s got the Rodwell fella running the show. He won’t budge till he gets the money he wants.

We are going round in circles here. What do you suggest our fan base does? Bearing in mind, our season got scrapped during a global pandemic.

There's no action you lot can take now. But you can plan for action for the 20/21 season. Make it clear that if key actions are not taken by the owner then there will be boycotts, sit-ins, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Wansbeck Viking]

Sorry, maybe I've not been clear, i'm not talking about protests in the here and now, where the world is f***ing weird, but previously, when the world was sort of normal. I think that grabbing survival from the jaws of relegation for a few years did dampen any anger. I also think beating your local rivals helped sooth the anger on Wearside. But there wasn't any protest when you were in the Championship that I can remember. If Newcastle didn't look like they were going to get promoted, there would have been bedsheets all over the place, let alone get relegated.

There's no action you lot can take now. But you can plan for action for the 20/21 season. Make it clear that if key actions are not taken by the owner then there will be boycotts, sit-ins, etc. etc. etc.

I think the thousands that didn’t renew have made it clear. Some of that will be down to not having a date for going back to grounds but it’ll be a lot emptier than last season. And I do think there will be some form of protests when the crowds are back.

 

[The Fish]

I think the thousands that didn’t renew have made it clear. Some of that will be down to not having a date for going back to grounds but it’ll be a lot emptier than last season. And I do think there will be some form of protests when the crowds are back.

Genuine question and not a wind up or a dig or anything like that, but do you think that our protests (however f***ing stupid some of them were) dissuaded your lot from protesting? Mag-like behaviour and all that?

 

[Mary Hinge]

Currently, there's not a lot of coverage on Sunderland's plight. Newcastle's ill-conceived, poorly executed protests did (if nothing else) get coverage. Now it's the consensus that Ashley has been a bad owner for Newcastle United. Even he's admitted it.

"Plight" it's a Fookin footy klerb? Not real life......

 

[The Fish]

"Plight" it's a Fookin footy klerb? Not real life......

Proper zany, aren't you?

 

[Wansbeck Viking]

Genuine question and not a wind up or a dig or anything like that, but do you think that our protests (however f***ing stupid some of them were) dissuaded your lot from protesting? Mag-like behaviour and all that?

Not really.

Plenty of other clubs have been through the shit with their owners, ground name change etc and none of them have carried coffins round the ground or shouted at the owners place of business.

And that’s not a dig. The majority of your protests have been from middle aged blokes who jumped on the Keegan bandwagon and still think it’s the 90’s. The decent mags I know laugh at those types.

 

[Mary Hinge]

Proper zany, aren't you?

Not as zany as thinking a footy klerbs the centre of the Universe sweet cheeks....that's why people look at ye Fookas and laugh.....

You make a decent point, whilst the general undertone is unnecessary. We do need to do something now as a support. And we have. Approx 60% of season ticket holders haven't renewed. That's huge.

Due to the current climate visible protests arent an option. But you are right in that many of our support view such protests as being mag like. Its ridiculous tbh.

We could do with the likes of rawa organising something to get the media involved. I suspect they are afraid to do so due to the criticism they got in Jan. But all they had to do was canvas their membership. Unfortunately a few lads just decided amongst themselves they were going to do something. Huge mistake that. Think they're scared to do something now.

How will that help the team? Vitriol cascading from the terraces, a sea of piss...
Just turn up support the team, see wot happens.....leave ya shoite at the turnstile....

 

[North Yorks Mackem]

Not as zany as thinking a footy klerbs the centre of the Universe sweet cheeks....that's why people look at ye Fookas and laugh.....


How will that help the team? Vitriol cascading from the terraces, a sea of piss...
Just turn up support the team, see wot happens.....leave ya shoite at the turnstile....

I didn't say we shouldn't support the team. But if the club is to stand a chance of progressing as a club we need a change of ownership.