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A breakdown of trust

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Sima said:
We don't think we're a special case beyond our own affections for the club at all, you did a mock funeral on the pitch for Leeds in 1973 and we don't think we deserve a trophy just for turning up.

Maybe if you weren't so pre-occupied with either what you think we think, what you think we're doing or the caricature you want to paint for us you might focus your attention on the currently plight of your club.

You protest in different ways, such as what?

That you are wanting to move the topic to Newcastle United rather than discussing the topic at hand serves as a microcosm of what defines a strong section of your supporterbase (particularly on here) in my mind. Stop focusing on Newcastle United, laughing and mocking on what we're doing and try to spend some time on your own club. This pride in not protesting and it 'not being the thing you do because we're not mags' is bizarre considering you're about to face your third season in the third tier.

Seriously, your club has never been lower but too often the discussion is around 'lol the mags are getting beat again'. Who gives a shit. man? We're two leagues above you.
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The mock funeral repurposing shows how desperate you are to win internet points, mind
 
Sima said:
We don't think we're a special case beyond our own affections for the club at all, you did a mock funeral on the pitch for Leeds in 1973 and we don't think we deserve a trophy just for turning up.

Maybe if you weren't so pre-occupied with either what you think we think, what you think we're doing or the caricature you want to paint for us you might focus your attention on the currently plight of your club.

You protest in different ways, such as what?

That you are wanting to move the topic to Newcastle United rather than discussing the topic at hand serves as a microcosm of what defines a strong section of your supporterbase (particularly on here) in my mind. Stop focusing on Newcastle United, laughing and mocking on what we're doing and try to spend some time on your own club. This pride in not protesting and it 'not being the thing you do because we're not mags' is bizarre considering you're about to face your third season in the third tier.

Seriously, your club has never been lower but too often the discussion is around 'lol the mags are getting beat again'. Who gives a shit. man? We're two leagues above you.
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You gave enough of a shit to log on here at 6.32 this morning.
 
Binxy said:
You gave enough of a shit to log on here at 6.32 this morning.
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Probably before he’d even got out of bed ..... not obsessed though 😜
Sima said:
We don't think we're a special case beyond our own affections for the club at all, you did a mock funeral on the pitch for Leeds in 1973 and we don't think we deserve a trophy.

We're two leagues above you.
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1973 - we were mocking Leeds, not our own club.

Two leagues above but still haven’t beaten us in 9 attempts
 
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The Fish said:
Mass banners, a march of some kind, a boycott, that kind of thing.
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There wasn't much point in that kind of thing when Short was here because he genuinely wanted to go. When he lost interest and stopped spending it was obvious he'd walk away if he could find (what we hoped would be) the right buyer.

You've got a bit more of a point about Donald, but up until recently people thought he genuinely wanted out as well. Now it seems he's hanging on hoping to get an undeserved profit at the expense of the club, so potentially a protest might be a worthwhile idea, but then we can't exactly do anything whilst there's a pandemic and we aren't playing football. The fanzines have already called for him to go, and if enough fans want further protests it'll likely happen.

Trouble is when people do by far the most effective protest (don't renew their season cards) you twist that and say you think its just apathy. It obviously isn't. People would have been apathetic well before now. I don't think it's a huge mass protest either mind, but some are protesting because they don't like the owners, and many others simply aren't renewing because there's no start date and we don't know when we'll be able to attend.

Mass banners and a march would get very little coverage since we're in league one, and Donald isn't Ashley with some country-wide brand that might have its reputation harmed by association. He wants his profit, a march isn't going to make him change his mind.
 
The Rat said:
Just don't go, I dont understand people renewing season tickets with him there, you are just enabling him.

He has absolutely no interest in improving Sunderland, he just wants his pay day.
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A lot of people will renew regardless how bad it gets. To many, it’s a day out with family/mates etc.
 
Probably only Blackpool have had more protests than us and you have to ask was it worth it ? We have a very wealthy owner , fans can't force an owner to sell up. He still owns the stadium and training ground which he wants to sell , but is asking an unrealistic £60 million. This figure is based on the money he has wasted rather than what the club is worth. Our protests got plenty of publicity but he's still the owner. For SAFC I don't think your owner is mega wealthy so a plunge in season ticket sales may find him heading for the exit quickest
 
Guinness Guzzler said:
There wasn't much point in that kind of thing when Short was here because he genuinely wanted to go. When he lost interest and stopped spending it was obvious he'd walk away if he could find (what we hoped would be) the right buyer.
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Honest question, when did the fans turn on Short? After relegation was confirmed? I ask because you'd been poorly run for a fair few years prior to that. You might have survived in the Premier League for 9 years, but you only had 3 seasons where you got 40+ points. The amount you spent, the number of managers you went through, it was obvious that you weren't being run well. Where was the anger?

You've got a bit more of a point about Donald, but up until recently people thought he genuinely wanted out as well. Now it seems he's hanging on hoping to get an undeserved profit at the expense of the club, so potentially a protest might be a worthwhile idea, but then we can't exactly do anything whilst there's a pandemic and we aren't playing football. The fanzines have already called for him to go, and if enough fans want further protests it'll likely happen.
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Absolutely.

Trouble is when people do by far the most effective protest (don't renew their season cards) you twist that and say you think its just apathy. It obviously isn't.
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I'm just saying that's what it looks like from the outside. Premier League club drops 2 divisions in 2 seasons and the attendance drops. First thought isn't "That's a mass protest against the owners", it's more "Fans don't want to pay to watch League 1 football." And given there wasn't any obvious organised action before, it looks more like individuals are choosing not to go, rather than an organised boycott.

People would have been apathetic well before now. I don't think it's a huge mass protest either mind, but some are protesting because they don't like the owners, and many others simply aren't renewing because there's no start date and we don't know when we'll be able to attend.

Mass banners and a march would get very little coverage since we're in league one, and Donald isn't Ashley with some country-wide brand that might have its reputation harmed by association. He wants his profit, a march isn't going to make him change his mind.
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Again, I'm asking more about the lack of action beforehand. Don't kid yourself about League 1 not getting coverage. If your protests were organised like Charlton's or Blackpool's you'd get coverage, plus you're a bigger club than both of those.
 
The Fish said:
Honest question, when did the fans turn on Short? After relegation was confirmed? I ask because you'd been poorly run for a fair few years prior to that. You might have survived in the Premier League for 9 years, but you only had 3 seasons where you got 40+ points. The amount you spent, the number of managers you went through, it was obvious that you weren't being run well. Where was the anger?


Absolutely.

I'm just saying that's what it looks like from the outside. Premier League club drops 2 divisions in 2 seasons and the attendance drops. First thought isn't "That's a mass protest against the owners", it's more "Fans don't want to pay to watch League 1 football." And given there wasn't any obvious organised action before, it looks more like individuals are choosing not to go, rather than an organised boycott.


Again, I'm asking more about the lack of action beforehand. Don't kid yourself about League 1 not getting coverage. If your protests were organised like Charlton's or Blackpool's you'd get coverage, plus you're a bigger club than both of those.
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You could also ask, Blackburn, Leeds, Leicester, Southampton, wolves, and Man City fans the same question as they all went from premiership to league 1, not quite as dramatic as ours. From memory, I can’t remember any of those clubs having mass protests or banners etc. Blackburn rightly so protested against the Venkys which got a bit of press and I think Leeds had a few morons on the pitch when they went to league 1.

As it stands for us, we haven’t a clue what Donald’s plans are, we don’t know when we can get back into the ground, any protests will have to be done through media and like I mentioned earlier, I know loads who have said they simply aren’t going back as a protest.

Now this isn’t a dig, or because we are rivals but some of your protests have been embarrassing which didn’t have any effect, if anyone suggested to me to shout at a shop, I’d tell them perhaps it would be better to find a new hobby.
 
The Fish said:
Honest question, when did the fans turn on Short? After relegation was confirmed? I ask because you'd been poorly run for a fair few years prior to that. You might have survived in the Premier League for 9 years, but you only had 3 seasons where you got 40+ points. The amount you spent, the number of managers you went through, it was obvious that you weren't being run well. Where was the anger?


Absolutely.

I'm just saying that's what it looks like from the outside. Premier League club drops 2 divisions in 2 seasons and the attendance drops. First thought isn't "That's a mass protest against the owners", it's more "Fans don't want to pay to watch League 1 football." And given there wasn't any obvious organised action before, it looks more like individuals are choosing not to go, rather than an organised boycott.


Again, I'm asking more about the lack of action beforehand. Don't kid yourself about League 1 not getting coverage. If your protests were organised like Charlton's or Blackpool's you'd get coverage, plus you're a bigger club than both of those.
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Around about the moyes relegation season I'd guess, when it became obvious that Short wasn't prepared to try and fix the issues with the side (understandably having already wasted so much money). Yes we had been badly run for a while prior, but there was always that sense that we weren't far off, and of course we'd kept on looking good at the end of the season, which naturally dampens any feeling of wanting to protest since we seemed to be on the up. Then there's the fact that he was spending, it's not like he was (at first) letting us sink, so I think a lot just hoped he'd eventually get someone competent in to run us, rather than leaving. Shorts money with a good CEO could have been great for us. Like I say once he stopped spending we knew he had to go, but by then he knew it as well and was just as desperate to get out since he was likely to lose more and more money.

From the outside I think, given the coverage of the lack of refund decision initially, it will just look like people sick of the owners. If it was apathy you'd have seen a huge drop this season just gone, which didn't happen.

As for organised action, again I've said why that didn't happen under Short, and Donald had enough people fooled early on that this is about the first time you'd really expect protests, which like I say we can't do. But because he won't be arsed about the minimal coverage they would get (regardless of what you say there would hardly be back page headlines about it!) I don't think any protest other than hitting him in the pocket will really work. There might be other protests though, depending on the mood of the fans the RAWA might organise something, but again it would have to be when we're back to some form of normality.
 
NickAddicks said:
Probably only Blackpool have had more protests than us and you have to ask was it worth it ? We have a very wealthy owner , fans can't force an owner to sell up. He still owns the stadium and training ground which he wants to sell , but is asking an unrealistic £60 million. This figure is based on the money he has wasted rather than what the club is worth. Our protests got plenty of publicity but he's still the owner. For SAFC I don't think your owner is mega wealthy so a plunge in season ticket sales may find him heading for the exit quickest
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Our owner has openly stated he wants to use the sale of this club to cover what he lost on another one. It's not even to cover the money wasted on this club.
 
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