2nd Test XI

[TheRey]

You haven’t seen him play a red ball innings in the last 2 years though have you?

Why would you want him batting 6?

What reason apart from hitting some 6s against a white ball than does absolutely nothing
anyway the most important thing on Thursday is Mark Wood

He HAS to play

3rd on the team sheet for me behind Root and Stokes.

I'd play Leach too personally, although I agree thats more debatable.

Atherton made the key point on Sky, England get bowled out for 150 so then Leach becomes useless. But you cant pick a team based on that scenario, as if you get bowled out for 150 you are gonna lose no matter what your team is.

Re. Your last point, even that is debatable. Imo if we had Broad on that second morning, we'd have had them more than 2 down when the ball was hopping around - Leach came on and allowed them to get away and get the score rolling. Broad playin could have got them for a lead of around 100 not 250 - different game then

I’ve given you the reasons. You’re not interested in records when it comes to Crawley over Burns so I don’t know why lack of form matters when it comes to Livingstone.

Tbf, he is normally slaggin Burns off too

 

[The Rat]

Re. Your last point, even that is debatable. Imo if we had Broad on that second morning, we'd have had them more than 2 down when the ball was hopping around - Leach came on and allowed them to get away and get the score rolling. Broad playin could have got them for a lead of around 100 not 250 - different game then

Tbf, he is normally slaggin Burns off too

Burns shouldnt be in the side like mate, 6 ducks in the year

he has nearly played as many games as Pat Cummins man, how many chances do we give him??

And I dont always slag him off like, I just think enough is enough.

I’ve given you the reasons. You’re not interested in records when it comes to Crawley over Burns so I don’t know why lack of form matters when it comes to Livingstone.

No I'd pick Crawley because he is in the squad

they are in Australia you know, we cant just fly someone over.

and there is form, and there is his form

Livingstone averaged 7

"Attitude" doesnt score you 100s in Australia mate, which is what we need.

I saw one of those games, and his stance at the crease was a farce, and not something he did years ago.

Burns has 6 ducks this year by the way. So I am interested in records yes.

If you want im in thw squad, thats fine, its your opinion and I wont try or want to change that

I object to the fact you saying it is a "disgrace" he isn't there, its not at all, its completely fair based on all cricketing logic.

He averaged 7 last year. Its not a disgrace to ignore someone like that.

Re. Your last point, even that is debatable. Imo if we had Broad on that second morning, we'd have had them more than 2 down when the ball was hopping around - Leach came on and allowed them to get away and get the score rolling. Broad playin could have got them for a lead of around 100 not 250 - different game then

Tbf, he is normally slaggin Burns off too

You need a spinner to win in Australia really like. Generally.

Broad wouldnt have ripped through them.

I'd have played him over Woakes for sure, but there is a lot of revisionism going on.

No realy complaints if they go with 4 at Adelaide, but it was the right call in the first test

the issue was 150 and them messing leach round all year

 

[Salem Street South]

Burns shouldnt be in the side like mate, 6 ducks in the year

he has nearly played as many games as Pat Cummins man, how many chances do we give him??

And I dont always slag him off like, I just think enough is enough.


No I'd pick Crawley because he is in the squad

they are in Australia you know, we cant just fly someone over.

and there is form, and there is his form

Livingstone averaged 7

"Attitude" doesnt score you 100s in Australia mate, which is what we need.

I saw one of those games, and his stance at the crease was a farce, and not something he did years ago.

Burns has 6 ducks this year by the way. So I am interested in records yes.

If you want im in thw squad, thats fine, its your opinion and I wont try or want to change that

I object to the fact you saying it is a "disgrace" he isn't there, its not at all, its completely fair based on all cricketing logic.

He averaged 7 last year. Its not a disgrace to ignore someone like that.

All of which is completely fine except for the fact that I’ve not once called it a disgrace he isn’t there.

 

[TheRey]

Burns shouldnt be in the side like mate, 6 ducks in the year

he has nearly played as many games as Pat Cummins man, how many chances do we give him??

And I dont always slag him off like, I just think enough is enough.


No I'd pick Crawley because he is in the squad

they are in Australia you know, we cant just fly someone over.

and there is form, and there is his form

Livingstone averaged 7

"Attitude" doesnt score you 100s in Australia mate, which is what we need.

I saw one of those games, and his stance at the crease was a farce, and not something he did years ago.

Burns has 6 ducks this year by the way. So I am interested in records yes.

If you want im in thw squad, thats fine, its your opinion and I wont try or want to change that

I object to the fact you saying it is a "disgrace" he isn't there, its not at all, its completely fair based on all cricketing logic.

He averaged 7 last year. Its not a disgrace to ignore someone like that.


You need a spinner to win in Australia really like. Generally.

Broad wouldnt have ripped through them.

I'd have played him over Woakes for sure, but there is a lot of revisionism going on.

No realy complaints if they go with 4 at Adelaide, but it was the right call in the first test

the issue was 150 and them messing leach round all year

Oh tbf mate, I love Rory but his form is definitely worth criticism, that wasn't a dig both dismissals were brutal

Lyon didn't do much in the first innings, and only ripped through our middle and lower order because we gave it away in the second
Broad would've fared much better imo

 

[The Rat]

One more thing with Burns, I am not bothered about his average, they pretty much all everage the same, I bet he averages like 2 more than Denly or someit?

The key point is that he will always always always get out early in test match cricket with that technique. Which is the exact opposite of what you want as an opener

the odd scarce 100 doesnt make up for that, as we need someone who can consistenyl see off the new ball

Denly is a good example, I am not saying he should be in the side btw, but he regularly faced 100 balls from 3, and we actually had pretty good results while he was there, wasnt coincidence

I hope het gets 100 this week, and he will get praise from me, I dont dislike any England player, but he will then go on another massive run of getting no runs. It wont make up for it.

 

[TheRey]

One more thing with Burns, I am not bothered about his average, they pretty much all everage the same, I bet he averages like 2 more than Denly or someit?

The key point is that he will always always always get out early in test match cricket with that technique. Which is the exact opposite of what you want as an opener

the odd scarce 100 doesnt make up for that, as we need someone who can consistenyl see off the new ball

Denly is a good example, I am not saying he should be in the side btw, but he regularly faced 100 balls from 3, and we actually had pretty good results while he was there, wasnt coincidence

I hope het gets 100 this week, and he will get praise from me, I dont dislike any England player, but he will then go on another massive run of getting no runs. It wont make up for it.

I still think there is a Test batsman in there, but can't argue with any of what you're saying about him.

 

[The Rat]

I still think there is a Test batsman in there, but can't argue with any of what you're saying about him.

He has the charachter like, which is why he has made it this far, and a good first class record

Just think test match bowlers can get him out early before he is in any sort of groove.

 

[TheRey]

He has the charachter like, which is why he has made it this far, and a good first class record

Just think test match bowlers can get him out early before he is in any sort of groove.

As I say, cannot possibly disagree.
Think his main issue mind isn't technique, it's concentration. Gives it away a lot when set, and always a candidate to be out after a break

 

[The Rat]

Oh tbf mate, I love Rory but his form is definitely worth criticism, that wasn't a dig both dismissals were brutal

Lyon didn't do much in the first innings, and only ripped through our middle and lower order because we gave it away in the second
Broad would've fared much better imo

Lyon kept it reasonably tight

I know what you are getting at, but we got absolutely hammered, I think we would have under any scenario after the 150, even if we had keot them to 300 or someit.

 

[Voice of fair play]

Burns shouldnt be in the side like mate, 6 ducks in the year

he has nearly played as many games as Pat Cummins man, how many chances do we give him??

And I dont always slag him off like, I just think enough is enough.


No I'd pick Crawley because he is in the squad

they are in Australia you know, we cant just fly someone over.

and there is form, and there is his form

Livingstone averaged 7

"Attitude" doesnt score you 100s in Australia mate, which is what we need.

I saw one of those games, and his stance at the crease was a farce, and not something he did years ago.

Burns has 6 ducks this year by the way. So I am interested in records yes.

If you want im in thw squad, thats fine, its your opinion and I wont try or want to change that

I object to the fact you saying it is a "disgrace" he isn't there, its not at all, its completely fair based on all cricketing logic.

He averaged 7 last year. Its not a disgrace to ignore someone like that.


You need a spinner to win in Australia really like. Generally.

Broad wouldnt have ripped through them.

I'd have played him over Woakes for sure, but there is a lot of revisionism going on.

No realy complaints if they go with 4 at Adelaide, but it was the right call in the first test

the issue was 150 and them messing leach round all year

The thing is mate it’s ok saying you need a spinner.

In general of course you right.

But the quality of your spinner has to be taken into account against leaving one of your quality seam bowlers out of the side.

Otherwise you could play any spinner.

 

[TheRey]

Lyon kept it reasonably tight

I know what you are getting at, but we got absolutely hammered, I think we would have under any scenario after the 150, even if we had keot them to 300 or someit.

Aye Lyon kept it tight first dig. Again, I think Broad would've been far more economical - I like Leach, but he leaks runs like a siv

The thing is mate it’s ok saying you need a spinner.

In general of course you right.

But the quality of your spinner has to be taken into account against leaving one of your quality seam bowlers out of the side.

Otherwise you could play any spinner.

This.

@The Rat is, imo, absolutely right in nearly always wanting a spinner in Aus, but when you have a seamer who is much better, and much more economical, than your spinner, then I think you need to be flexible

 

[Voice of fair play]

Aye Lyon kept it tight first dig. Again, I think Broad would've been far more economical - I like Leach, but he leaks runs like a siv

Leach to much of a risk imo, in one sense The Rat is right it’s a must win game, however if Leach is taken on by their bowlers like the last test the game could be gone.

 

[The Rat]

The thing is mate it’s ok saying you need a spinner.

In general of course you right.

But the quality of your spinner has to be taken into account against leaving one of your quality seam bowlers out of the side.

Otherwise you could play any spinner.

Well thats the argument, leaving 1000 test wickets on the bench etc

I just think if we scored a fair score in Brisbane, they couldnt have attacked Leach in that way, and Leach would have been a lot more valuable than Broad on day 4 or 5 on that pitch

You need bowlers to exploit day 1 and day 5 coniditons

the issue is we cant get to day 5

no criticism from me if they dont plau him btw

didnt like criticism for picking him in the first test though

 

[Voice of fair play]

Aye Lyon kept it tight first dig. Again, I think Broad would've been far more economical - I like Leach, but he leaks runs like a siv

This.

@The Rat is, imo, absolutely right in nearly always wanting a spinner in Aus, but when you have a seamer who is much better, and much more economical, than your spinner, then I think you need to be flexible

Yep and Root could turn his arm as well.

Well thats the argument, leaving 1000 test wickets on the bench etc

I just think if we scored a fair score in Brisbane, they couldnt have attacked Leach in that way, and Leach would have been a lot more valuable than Broad on day 4 or 5 on that pitch

You need bowlers to exploit day 1 and day 5 coniditons

the issue is we cant get to day 5

no criticism from me if they dont plau him btw

didnt like criticism for picking him in the first test though

Yeah like you say mate it’s a must win game, so play your best bowlers and Leach is not one of them imo,

 

[TheRey]

Yep and Root could turn his arm as well.

Equally @The Rat is correct, we didn't lose because of Leach, we lost because we have the worst batting lineup in my years of watching Tests

 

[The Rat]

Leach to much of a risk imo, in one sense The Rat is right it’s a must win game, however if Leach is taken on by their bowlers like the last test the game could be gone.

This is true however in a scenario where we get 400 they wont bat like that, they just wouldnt

they might take him on a bit but not like they did this test.

 

[Voice of fair play]

Equally @The Rat is correct, we didn't lose because of Leach, we lost because we have the worst batting lineup in my years of watching Tests

Yeah I agree but we can’t have a bowler going for nearly a 100 of 10 overs in a test match!!

 

[The Rat]

Yep and Root could turn his arm as well.

Yeah like you say mate it’s a must win game, so play your best bowlers and Leach is not one of them imo,

Play your best attack

 

[Voice of fair play]

This is true however in a scenario where we get 400 they wont bat like that, they just wouldnt

they might take him on a bit but not like they did this test.

Just don’t want to take that risk in such a big game.

It’s unlikely we will score 400 based off recent times, so would play our 4 best bowlers, if we need to give them a break Root could do a job.

Play your best attack

Well that’s the debate mate don’t think Leach in it.

 

[Salem Street South]

Leach to much of a risk imo, in one sense The Rat is right it’s a must win game, however if Leach is taken on by their bowlers like the last test the game could be gone.

He’s not right about that either.

Getting a fair bit wrong since he came back.