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dangermows said:
Bloke on QT echoing what I've said repeatedly that often these knackers who join ISIS aren't doing it for Allah. They are angry, violent, disengaged young people, wanting to be someone and to have a sense of worth or purpose. One recently stopped from getting into Syria had an Islam For Dummies book just so he could pass the initiation test.

Muslim woman just on saying there are issues in their community that needs addressing. She particularly focused on Wahabbi preachers, saying they are teaching twisted interpretations of the Qu'ran and said any Saudi funded mosques should be closed.
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@naughtynose
 


dangermows said:
Bloke on QT echoing what I've said repeatedly that often these knackers who join ISIS aren't doing it for Allah. They are angry, violent, disengaged young people, wanting to be someone and to have a sense of worth or purpose. One recently stopped from getting into Syria had an Islam For Dummies book just so he could pass the initiation test.
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There is evidence to support that a high number of second generation immigrant youths are prone to schizophrenia etc.
 
dangermows said:
Bloke on QT echoing what I've said repeatedly that often these knackers who join ISIS aren't doing it for Allah. They are angry, violent, disengaged young people, wanting to be someone and to have a sense of worth or purpose. One recently stopped from getting into Syria had an Islam For Dummies book just so he could pass the initiation test.

Muslim woman just on saying there are issues in their community that needs addressing. She particularly focused on Wahabbi preachers, saying they are teaching twisted interpretations of the Qu'ran and said any Saudi funded mosques should be closed.
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As with anything, its a mix.
 
scraff said:
Could this be down to lack of manpower? Heard a plod on radio today saying that if they wanted to do 24hr surveillance on a suspect they needed 30 officers and generally did not have the people to do it.
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Minimum of 12 surveillance, a controller and a scribe doing the logs. So 14. Say 3 X 8 hours shifts per suspect per day, that's 42 cops.
I think I read that there's at any one time, somewhere around 500 live investigations on the go into terrorism. Even if you just covered them that's 20,000 cops needed. you can see the issues.
 
Behind Enemy Lines said:
Pretty much all of the Muslims currently under surveillence are so because they have expressed radical Islamic views, accessed radical Islamic material, associated with other known radical Islamists, travelled to certain countries and so on. IMO all those people should be interned immediately - this immediately removes all these potential threats from our streets, gives us more time to figure out what is going on and frees up resources to check out any others who have so far slipped under the radar. I'd also stop all immigration from Muslim-majority countries with immediate effect, again while we figure out what is going on and what our plan is going forward.

I'm not comfortable with the above proposals btw but I think we need to accept that we are at war and in times of war you have to put aside your principles for a while. We've done it before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_concentration_and_internment_camps#United_Kingdom - all suspected Nazi sympathisers in the UK were rounded up during WW2 for example.

There is part of me that wonders whether all of this is unnecessary and over the top at this point but there is also a part of me that thinks 'why wait for it to get worse?' which it will with our current inaction.
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alreet Donald? Is it true you have issued a direct order to the security services never to shout "Donald, duck" in the event of a security alert/threat to your person?

sksk3021 said:
Problem being where we put them (and who with) also who investigates. We need massively more police resource, probably involving specialist units and preferably with muslim members.
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Whoa, easy there tiger. I thought we'd already established that WE DO NOT WANT THEIR TYPES IN THE COUNTRY?
 
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gavinmcant said:
Minimum of 12 surveillance, a controller and a scribe doing the logs. So 14. Say 3 X 8 hours shifts per suspect per day, that's 42 cops.
I think I read that there's at any one time, somewhere around 500 live investigations on the go into terrorism. Even if you just covered them that's 20,000 cops needed. you can see the issues.
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Cheers for that, interesting to know how it works.
Is 20000 the amount that have been cut? As an ex policeman do you think more could be done to stop attacks of these cuts hadn't been brought in?
 
I'm not a religious scholar, but what I've seen of the Quran looks brutal. It's not a case of some of it being taken out of context, it's explicitly clear what you should do in the name of Allah to non believers etc. Even the 'good' in there seems more fear invoking. As I say, don't speak Arabic and I'm not some religious scholar, but there's plenty of evil in there and it would seem rather than it being a religion of peace that many just adapt to western culture and aren't really devout Muslims taking it in the literal sense, rather just cherry picking the nice stuff. I've always been close to some Muslims, and some of their views are terrible. Not terroristic, but bloody mental.

Happy to be enlightened or told that I'm ignorant though...
 
Tadger said:
Why is it such a bad thing to be worried about innocent people being wrongly deported and/or imprisoned?

Why does it have to be all or nothing with some people? Heaven forbid we actually try and target those that are actually wrong' uns.
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What ratio of correct/incorrect deportations would be acceptable to you? just so we know in case it's your brother/sister who is kicked out of the country.....

UTW said:
https://twitter.com/trobinsonnewera/status/867486163862421504

The kind of animals we are dealing with. Literally taking the piss out of dead children knowing we will say fuck all to them
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I presume you're referring to tommy robinson?

Mackem DJ said:
Brilliant that the SMB has learned me that these people on the terror list could only be in because a monitoring app on boards like this could have picked up a few phrases on a board like this and next thing you know, your being deported :lol:
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It's a shame your education didn't "learn you" the basics of written English.
 
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Hope the media keep track of what actually happens to those who've been arrested.

It's likely a lot of them will be released without charge, because you need evidence of them actively planning an act of terrorism.

They will become 'on the radar' types, who police know to be on the side of the terrorists, but unable to prosecute them for a specific crime.

How they are others like them are dealt with will be the true test of how serious politicians are when they say they will deal with the problem. Will those are aren't British be deported example?
 
Mackem2017 said:
It's insensitive and absolutely ridiculous. It's like having an anti paedo logo using a dildo as one of the letters totally f***ing ridiculous
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What? I must have missed the sex education class which clearly demonstrated the causal link between sex toys and the desire to interfere with pre-pubescent children.....
 
errant said:
What if they had absolutely nothing to do with it?
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That's the situation that the 3,000+ on the terror watchlist are in.

No evidence connecting them to a specific plot, but sympathetic to other plotters and at very high risk of becoming plotters themselves.

That's why how these people are dealt with will be a test of how serious the authorities are.
 
Behind Enemy Lines said:
You mean people saying that all Muslims should be deported or imprisoned? Nobody sensible is saying that either.
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get out clause alert.

Behind Enemy Lines said:
Pretty much all of the Muslims currently under surveillence are so because they have expressed radical Islamic views, accessed radical Islamic material, associated with other known radical Islamists, travelled to certain countries and so on. IMO all those people should be interned immediately - this immediately removes all these potential threats from our streets, gives us more time to figure out what is going on and frees up resources to check out any others who have so far slipped under the radar. I'd also stop all immigration from Muslim-majority countries with immediate effect, again while we figure out what is going on and what our plan is going forward.

I'm not comfortable with the above proposals btw but I think we need to accept that we are at war and in times of war you have to put aside your principles for a while. We've done it before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_concentration_and_internment_camps#United_Kingdom - all suspected Nazi sympathisers in the UK were rounded up during WW2 for example.

There is part of me that wonders whether all of this is unnecessary and over the top at this point but there is also a part of me that thinks 'why wait for it to get worse?' which it will with our current inaction.
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should someone called "Behind Enemy Lines" be allowed on this thread or should we just deport them (and their families)? ;)
 
Hulkster said:
That's the situation that the 3,000+ on the terror watchlist are in.

No evidence connecting them to a specific plot, but sympathetic to other plotters and at very high risk of becoming plotters themselves.

That's why how these people are dealt with will be a test of how serious the authorities are.
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Is it?
What do you actually have to do to end up on this watchlist?
 
Hulkster said:
That's the situation that the 3,000+ on the terror watchlist are in.

No evidence connecting them to a specific plot, but sympathetic to other plotters and at very high risk of becoming plotters themselves.

That's why how these people are dealt with will be a test of how serious the authorities are.
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But these ones who were arrested, its very possible some are totally innocent - wrong place wrong circumstances... better to arrest them, ask questions then work it out...
 
the cynic in me says they've heightened the security just to keep us all scared and under control

but then I see the cops on trains and the Mrs is heading through Manchester on a train tomorrow and you think they have info that someone is still on the loose with the other half of the bomb making gear they've found
 
Sandboy said:
the cynic in me says they've heightened the security just to keep us all scared and under control

but then I see the cops on trains and the Mrs is heading through Manchester on a train tomorrow and you think they have info that someone is still on the loose with the other half of the bomb making gear they've found
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Apparently the bomb had a remote detonator in case he bottled it. Which of course means the person that brain washed him is kicking around, maybe.
 
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