Umpires

[Parkside]

I

I think there is some good points in there mate, nobody for example should be immune to criticism and you should always look to improve anything of course.

However I stand by my opinion that there is a stark general unappreciation of the difficulty of real time decisions with one look and spilt seconds to decide.

Imo people watch replays from perfect slowed down angles and then have a real go everything easier in hindsight and great slowed down views.

The very fact people struggle to name good officials from many different generations and eras validates the point that it’s very very hard to be perceived good.

Even the two you mention I know Notts Forest fans think Anthony Taylor terrible because of decisions he has gave them and he the best in the country.

Maybe I am blinded by the fact there is very little fair constructive criticism and absolutely loads and loads of over the top nonsense towards officials.

But my general point will still stand that it’s a hell of a difficult job giving real time decisions, and absolutely think evidence backs up that view.

While at the same time think fair valid constructive criticism should be welcomed and always looking to improve.

It hasn't to be split second decision,that's my main bone of contention, particularly in cricket. Nor do I accept that it's a really difficult job having both refereed and umpired myself over several years albeit at a low level. In football we're talking about full time officials who,presumably,have had years of experience before reaching the top level, who have 2 other officials to offer another pair of eyes to assist . Allowing so much backache can make the decision making more difficult but they bring that about themselves.
We have strong and different viewpoints which is what forum debate is all about so I have no issue with that whatsoever. It's when it degenerates into name calling and insults that I find it intolerable and wholly unnecessary
The good officials aren't noticed and hence don't get remembered
Backchat not backache-autocorrect

 

[Voice of fair play]

I

It hasn't to be split second decision,that's my main bone of contention, particularly in cricket. Nor do I accept that it's a really difficult job having both refereed and umpired myself over several years albeit at a low level. In football we're talking about full time officials who,presumably,have had years of experience before reaching the top level, who have 2 other officials to offer another pair of eyes to assist . Allowing so much backache can make the decision making more difficult but they bring that about themselves.
We have strong and different viewpoints which is what forum debate is all about so I have no issue with that whatsoever. It's when it degenerates into name calling and insults that I find it intolerable and wholly unnecessary
The good officials aren't noticed and hence don't get remembered
Backchat not backache-autocorrect

‘ Good officials aren’t noticed’

Hway mate that’s impossible in today’s society, a 50/50 decision in a big match a decision has to be made one way or the other, then it is talked over and over again on many diffrent formats tv, social media etc etc where everyone has opinion.

People now know where a ref is from, who they support, how many red/yellow cards they have given that season, how many of them was against their team, how many games they have won and lost when ref against their side, I could go on and on!!

But a good one is ‘ not noticed’

That’s a ridiculous statement tbh.

What puzzles me about you mate and has done for a while, is you see many posters calling and insulting players, officials, coaches a like in the first place, without a word to them.

Yet when posters pull them up for them unfair and unjustified insults and return some of them insults in kind you all over them.

If first insult never happened no need to return in kind?

 

[Parkside]

‘ Good officials aren’t noticed’

Hway mate that’s impossible in today’s society, a 50/50 decision in a big match a decision has to be made one way or the other, then it is talked over and over again on many diffrent formats tv, social media etc etc where everyone has opinion.

People now know where a ref is from, who they support, how many red/yellow cards they have given that season, how many of them was against their team, how many games they have won and lost when ref against their side, I could go on and on!!

But a good one is ‘ not noticed’

That’s a ridiculous statement tbh.

What puzzles me about you mate and has done for a while, is you see many posters calling and insulting players, officials, coaches a like in the first place, without a word to them.

Yet when posters pull them up for them unfair and unjustified insults and return some of them insults in kind you all over them.

If first insult never happened no need to return in kind?

Yeh,the never noticed was referring to the spectator at the match not noticing him but its true in the media.-unless the official makes a contentious decision he isn't mentioned . That's my limited experience as I don't pay much attention to after match inquests. He's obviously physically noticed but by "noticed" I meant commented upon. I thought that would be obvious.
I've commented ad nauseum about unjustified criticism and offered a reason for such behaviour but that's not condoning or justifying it.
I have no respect for that element; sounding off about it certainly won't change their attitude or behaviour so it's fairly pointless doing so -responding with insults is simply stooping to their level imo.
Hope that clarifies the issue- disappointing but not unexpected that you choose to use inflammatory terminology " ridiculous"-I could but won't respond likewise.

 

[Voice of fair play]

Yeh,the never noticed was referring to the spectator at the match not noticing him but its true in the media.-unless the official makes a contentious decision he isn't mentioned . That's my limited experience as I don't pay much attention to after match inquests. He's obviously physically noticed but by "noticed" I meant commented upon. I thought that would be obvious.
I've commented ad nauseum about unjustified criticism and offered a reason for such behaviour but that's not condoning or justifying it.
I have no respect for that element; sounding off about it certainly won't change their attitude or behaviour so it's fairly pointless doing so -responding with insults is simply stooping to their level imo.
Hope that clarifies the issue- disappointing but not unexpected that you choose to use inflammatory terminology " ridiculous"-I could but won't respond likewise.

The point I was trying to make is that if they is a borderline 50/50 big decision to make it’s impossible not to have to make a ‘contentious decision’

That could be down to luck whether one of them happens in a game rather than capability.

It’s no where near as simple as saying a ref is a good ref if not noticed, it’s not that black and white.

Personally I prefer a culture in sport where officials are not abused unfairly for simply giving honest decisions to the best of ability in proven difficult circumstances.

It’s sets a horrendous example and could and has filtered down to even kids level.

Some criticism of officials is fair, a lot is personal totally unnecessary and unfair and make no apologies for calling people in kind because they have started the insults in the first place, calling honest blokes having to make decisions when all around him are cheating and making their job as hard as they possibly can .

 

[Raymondo]

Whenever Durham get a lbw against them you can bet 90 percent of the time it's the wrong decision according to some on here no perspective of how hard a job it is as an umpire.

73.6% of all statistics are made up, yours falls into that category.

 

[Parkside]

The point I was trying to make is that if they is a borderline 50/50 big decision to make it’s impossible not to have to make a ‘contentious decision’

That could be down to luck whether one of them happens in a game rather than capability.

It’s no where near as simple as saying a ref is a good ref if not noticed, it’s not that black and white.

Personally I prefer a culture in sport where officials are not abused unfairly for simply giving honest decisions to the best of ability in proven difficult circumstances.

It’s sets a horrendous example and could and has filtered down to even kids level.

Some criticism of officials is fair, a lot is personal totally unnecessary and unfair and make no apologies for calling people in kind because they have started the insults in the first place, calling honest blokes having to make decisions when all around him are cheating and making their job as hard as they possibly can .

It has filtered down to kids which is why it's difficult to recruit officials.Fortunately,I've never encounters it with The group I watch-I'm pretty sure it would be quickly eradicated if it occurred
We have differing views on the standards of professional referees and I confine my misgivings to that standard. I remember the expression "you can't get into the minds of the mindless"- Cloughy, I believe,when football hooliganism first reared its head. I don't respond,therefore, to that element -you believe in responding to insult with insult. You're entitled to your opinion.
I think that's wholly ineffective and,therefore,pointless. As always,I believe in maintaining civility during discussions with other posters. On that,we also appear to differ.

 

[Bibblebonk]

That's a poor decision, not awful and wouldn't have seen the light of day if it hadn't been Crawley. Main reason to post is this umpire lark ain't the cushy number people think. I know a fella who had to use his full annual leave for five years in his full time job doing age group games, 2nd XI games and then Saturdays in the local ECB Premier League to reach first class status. There's also an ex-First Class I know who has been trying to get on the panel for years and missed out each time. He's probably averaged three of four days a week for at least five years earning what is effectively less than the minimum wage

 

[Voice of fair play]

That's a poor decision, not awful and wouldn't have seen the light of day if it hadn't been Crawley. Main reason to post is this umpire lark ain't the cushy number people think. I know a fella who had to use his full annual leave for five years in his full time job doing age group games, 2nd XI games and then Saturdays in the local ECB Premier League to reach first class status. There's also an ex-First Class I know who has been trying to get on the panel for years and missed out each time. He's probably averaged three of four days a week for at least five years earning what is effectively less than the minimum wage

Tbh I think most official jobs in sport is a bit of a thankless task.

It’s the last thing I would want to do.

Good decisions or good games quickly forgotten about.

Bad decisions gone over like a fine tooth comb, with the benefit of replays from perfect slowed down views that the official of course never had when giving it in real time.

I am surprised new people want to take it up tbh.

 

[Parkside]

That's a poor decision, not awful and wouldn't have seen the light of day if it hadn't been Crawley. Main reason to post is this umpire lark ain't the cushy number people think. I know a fella who had to use his full annual leave for five years in his full time job doing age group games, 2nd XI games and then Saturdays in the local ECB Premier League to reach first class status. There's also an ex-First Class I know who has been trying to get on the panel for years and missed out each time. He's probably averaged three of four days a week for at least five years earning what is effectively less than the minimum wage

At the amateur level most umpires do it for the love of the game or are ex-players wanting to give something back to the game.I've never witnesed verbal abuse to umpires in all my years in the game although it is creeping in apparently at lower levels. League management generally impose strict sanctions when cases are reported. Refereeing is a totally different game abuse wise but there's a different animal both playing and watching the game. At elite level professional umpires are very well remunerated i.e £40k- £100k p.a. but is rather a closed shop being monoplised by ex- professional players. Hardly surprising therefore that there is an incosistency in standard.