Umpires

[Voice of fair play]

You’ve completely derailed this thread with your bizarre crusade against ‘fanatics’. The post was about a former professional cricketer bemoaning umpiring standards and a lack of accountability.

Nobody made the point about bias towards or against their team until you came along. I stated that I felt Durham had received some shockers, but at no point did I suggest it was because there’s bias or an agenda against us. Not once.

What on earth are you trying to prove here? Seriously?

I’m with ‘Mr Rafiq’ when he asks for better standards of officiating and accountability. I don’t think anyone iwho cares about sport can disagree with that.

Isn’t it obvious?

Officials have a very difficult job?

Having to give decisions in a spilt second with the same tools they have had for 100 years.

All the evidence from years and years proves that, hence the introduction of technology to help them.

It’s rational and sensible in my genuine honest opinion to be sympathetic to people in that situation.

And while I think it’s fair and in full agreement with yourself to debate decisions as that part of the enjoyment of a board like this.

It’s not fair imo to put tweets out like this or give them some of the insults I have seen on here.

You actually said yourself earlier in the thread you thought it may be clipping leg stump yet at the same time think it’s ok to tweet that and put that particular umpire out to dry?

 

[chunkyshanhawk53]

I don’t see it that way if somebody calls or insults somebody else totally unjustly for simply trying their best under proven difficult circumstances

I have no qualms telling them soo.

Sorry, but that doesn’t fly at all.

And you know it’s true because you scarpered from that thread

I agree people overreact fwiw, I don’t think the Crawley one was a shocker either. I also find the Mr Rafiq thing bizarre, are you suggesting that he’s not credible?

 

[Ch1982]

They're paid in one of 3 classes £40k,£60k and £100k per annum- most wouldn't class that as a pittance.Can't recall any umpire being withdrawn from the list other than compulsory at 65 years age. That suggests that there isn't any effective monitoring and hence it qualifies as a cosy job.Many of those "spouting shite" will probably have umpired at some stage and have played and watched the game over several years.The general standard of umpiring at good club level has been

He's shown a complete lack of knowledge of the terms and conditions of umpiring.

That is crazy money for umpiring cricket genuinely had no idea it would be that much

 

[Parkside]

It’s not fair imo to put tweets out like this or give them some of the insults I have seen on here.

I take it you're not familiar with the expression "pot calling the kettle black"
Or
"When you find yourself in a hole,stop digging"
This is becoming hilarious.

 

[Voice of fair play]

Sorry, but that doesn’t fly at all.

And you know it’s true because you scarpered from that thread

I agree people overreact fwiw, I don’t think the Crawley one was a shocker either. I also find the Mr Rafiq thing bizarre, are you suggesting that he’s not credible?

I more talking about posters who go over the top in their insults towards officials.

He is credible that’s why I am disappointed with his tweet.

He should know better and it’s put that particular umpire out to dry.

Which I think is unfair and unnecessary.

It’s always easy to target officials etc as very rarely do they bit back wish they did at times

 

[Parkside]

That is crazy money for umpiring cricket genuinely had no idea it would be that much

Yeh,particularly when it's virtually a closed shop mainly confined to ex-county players

 

[Raymondo]

But that’s the problem they never is valid justifiable debate about officials.

If that’s true, it’s only because people like you are incapable of it.

This thread was started because a former professional cricketer made a point about the standard of umpiring. No mention of biases or agendas, not until you came along and derailed the thread that is.

You want valid justifiable debate about officials? You’re not capable of it. If you think you are, I’m here for it, so let’s go

I mean I was suspecting an absolute shocker before I clicked on the video but, on first viewing is it really a howler? It might be just missing leg but it’s hardly an awful decision.

I stand by what I said in the OP, before a certain poster totally derailed the thread with their ridiculous crusade.

 

[Voice of fair play]

If that’s true, it’s only because people like you are incapable of it.

This thread was started because a former professional cricketer made a point about the standard of umpiring. No mention of biases or agendas, not until you came along and derailed the thread that is.

You want valid justifiable debate about officials? You’re not capable of it. If you think you are, I’m here for it, so let’s go


I stand by what I said in the OP, before a certain poster totally derailed the thread with their ridiculous crusade.

Ok then I think you need to accept that at times your team will get some bad decisions as will others it’s unavoidable.

Is standards of umpiring any worse than previous years?

I doubt it?

As mistakes have always been made as too difficult with just the human eye.

Is there more scrutiny than ever because of social media streams etc so you see those mistakes more?

I would say yes.

Should the powers of be continue to try and improve the standard?

Yes?

Will it ever satisfy everyone as mistakes inevitable?

I would say no .

 

[Parkside]

If that’s true, it’s only because people like you are incapable of it.

This thread was started because a former professional cricketer made a point about the standard of umpiring. No mention of biases or agendas, not until you came along and derailed the thread that is.

You want valid justifiable debate about officials? You’re not capable of it. If you think you are, I’m here for it, so let’s go


I stand by what I said in the OP, before a certain poster totally derailed the thread with their ridiculous crusade.

I wonder if he'd join with the Sunderland fanatics at a game and express his views to them. I'd pay top dollar to observe

 

[Raymondo]

Isn’t it obvious?

No, far from it, you’re all over the place.

Officials have a very difficult job?

Haven’t seen anyone suggest otherwise, strange point to try and make.

Having to give decisions in a spilt second with the same tools they have had for 100 years.

See above.

All the evidence from years and years proves that, hence the introduction of technology to help them.

Again, see above.

It’s rational and sensible in my genuine honest opinion to be sympathetic to people in that situation.

Fair enough, but again, nobody is saying it isn’t a difficult job and I haven’t seen anyone showing a lack of sympathy towards them on here.

And while I think it’s fair and in full agreement with yourself to debate decisions as that part of the enjoyment of a board like this.

I’m not sure you’re capable.

It’s not fair imo to put tweets out like this or give them some of the insults I have seen on here.

Right, but those are two very different things and I think it’s pathetic that you’ve tried to club them together. Firstly, it IS FAIR to tweet about poor officiating if your intention is to bring about better officiating and accountability, particularly from someone who played the game at that level - ESPECIALLY given the point he was making around people losing their jobs (and livelihoods) owing to the decisions of umpires. It’s the same in football, how many people lose their jobs, how many clubs lose millions of pounds, how many people’s lives are harmed irreparably because of poor officiating? Loads. It’s an immeasurable number and there is zero recourse.

Secondly, again with the ‘insults’ crusade. Rafiq hasn’t insulted anyone with that tweet, or atleast not the way I read it, so why are you still prattling on about insults?

You actually said yourself earlier in the thread you thought it may be clipping leg stump yet at the same time think it’s ok to tweet that and put that particular umpire out to dry?

Yes I did, I don’t believe it’s as bad a decision as he makes out, I stand by that on this decision - but I DO think there have been several calls this season that warrant a closer look. I’m bringing this up to highlight a wider issue, many people on this forum who watch a lot of cricket both on television/stream and in person agree with the sentiment that umpiring at county level isn’t as good as they feel it should be. We should always strive for the best and I’ve long since believed that cricket (again, very much like football) is being played at the top domestic level by elite performers, but unfortunately they’re having to cope with mediocre level officiating. We’re only a little bit more than 48 hours on from Dan Ballard having his season ended by a nonsensical officiating decision - we have to call it out.

It isn’t insulting anyone, I’m not calling any individual names, I’m simply saying that there is nothing whatsoever wrong with wanting the best from those who officiate top level sport.

I’m willing to have that discussion, if you aren’t, this is where you can check out.

I more talking about posters who go over the top in their insults towards officials.

He is credible that’s why I am disappointed with his tweet.

He should know better and it’s put that particular umpire out to dry.

Which I think is unfair and unnecessary.

It’s always easy to target officials etc as very rarely do they bit back wish they did at times

Insane this

Railing against an imaginary enemy here.

Ok then I think you need to accept that at times your team will get some bad decisions as will others it’s unavoidable.

WHAT

THE

ACTUAL

****

You’re insane pal. At NO POINT have I said anything to the contrary. NOT ONCE. You are fighting against an imaginary bogeyman. This is mental.

 

[Turner the Cat]

I think that's a poor tactless post from Azeem

The umpire does have an excuse. He has to make a split second decision and he won't always get it right. Given that we have the chance to watch again and people are still divided, it goes to show how this isnt straightforward. Maybe if there were repeated clear mistakes by the same umpire then there is something worth raising.

 

[Parkside]

I think that's a poor tactless post from Azeem

The umpire does have an excuse. He has to make a split second decision and he won't always get it right. Given that we have the chance to watch again and people are still divided, it goes to show how this isnt straightforward. Maybe if there were repeated clear mistakes by the same umpire then there is something worth raising.I

It's that split decision that is the issue- he doesn't have to make a split second decision. Take time,play the incident back in your mind,ask the obvious questions regarding line,direction and height, bat contact and then make your decision.I wouldn't be - critical of a club umpire for whom it is a part time job and doing it for pittance. We talking here of well paid professionals You have the right to criticise.instant decisions which are made without the necessary thought. Unless it's absolutely plumb.

 

[smoker]

Interesting tweet from Azeem Rafiq regarding Zak Crawley’s second innings dismissal on Saturday:

You must be logged on to see media items

I think Durham have been on the receiving end of some absolute howlers already this season, certainly more ‘shocking’ than that, because if I’m being honest I think there’s a chance that’s clipping leg.

That's hilarious. Crawley has been very fortunate to have had the cricket career he has.

Ok then I think you need to accept that at times your team will get some bad decisions as will others it’s unavoidable.

Is standards of umpiring any worse than previous years?

I doubt it?

As mistakes have always been made as too difficult with just the human eye.

Is there more scrutiny than ever because of social media streams etc so you see those mistakes more?

I would say yes.

Should the powers of be continue to try and improve the standard?

Yes?

Will it ever satisfy everyone as mistakes inevitable?

I would say no .

Agree with this.

I've seen us get some dodgy ones and some lucky ones this season. Ultimately it should sort itself out over a season.

Try watching the decisions once, in real time, without the benefit of slow motion replay and not calling one wrong.

 

[Voice of fair play]

That's hilarious. Crawley has been very fortunate to have had the cricket career he has.

Agree with this.

I've seen us get some dodgy ones and some lucky ones this season. Ultimately it should sort itself out over a season.

Try watching the decisions once, in real time, without the benefit of slow motion replay and not calling one wrong.

Well that’s it there is years and years of evidence both in cricket and football that without a shadow of a doubt proves the high level difficulty of giving decisions in real time.

People keep going on about standard should be better in both sports but can never point to a period in the past when it has been any better because these mistakes have and will be always made.

It’s only because there is more scrutiny than ever before that the mistakes are seen and shown more they have always been there.

 

[Parkside]

Well that’s it there is years and years of evidence both in cricket and football that without a shadow of a doubt proves the high level difficulty of giving decisions in real time.

People keep going on about standard should be better in both sports but can never point to a period in the past when it has been any better because these mistakes have and will be always made.

It’s only because there is more scrutiny than ever before that the mistakes are seen and shown more they have always been there.

Whatever involvement participated,one should always seek manners of improvement imo. You're prepared to accept the status quo in refereeing standards,others seek ways to improve what they perceive as mediocrity from highly paid professionals.What exactly is your objection to that? Can you not accept that? Are others not allowed perceptions which do not concur with yours?
Agreed,some criticism of officials is ott,some is unjustified. Equally there is ample room for improvement. You're not going to change it with ranting. We don't live in a perfect world but nor does everyone have to concur with your perceptions.

 

[Voice of fair play]

Whatever involvement participated,one should always seek manners of improvement imo. You're prepared to accept the status quo in refereeing standards,others seek ways to improve what they perceive as mediocrity from highly paid professionals.What exactly is your objection to that? Can you not accept that? Are others not allowed perceptions which do not concur with yours?
Agreed,some criticism of officials is ott,some is unjustified. Equally there is ample room for improvement. You're not going to change it with ranting. We don't live in a perfect world but nor does everyone have to concur with your perceptions.

There is nothing wrong with that in the slightest but can you think of any constructive ways in which people have suggested it can be improved?

What improvements despite numerous debates has been suggested by any posters??

That’s kind of my point loads and loads of complaints and stating it should be better but a complete lack of suggestions how they could improve real time decisions?

But there is a complete lack imo of the understanding of difficultly of it despite all the evidence from generations proving that
Going down the route some posters do in their over the top criticism is hardly going to increase take up of the role by possible good officials from the future.

In fact it would increase their chances imo to look at other professions/careers

 

[chopsfc007]

There is nothing wrong with that in the slightest but can you think of any constructive ways in which people have suggested it can be improved?

What improvements despite numerous debates has been suggested by any posters??

That’s kind of my point loads and loads of complaints and stating it should be better but a complete lack of suggestions how they could improve real time decisions?

But there is a complete lack imo of the understanding of difficultly of it despite all the evidence from generations proving that
Going down the route some posters do in their over the top criticism is hardly going to increase take up of the role by possible good officials from the future.

In fact it would increase their chances imo to look at other professions/careers

Whenever Durham get a lbw against them you can bet 90 percent of the time it's the wrong decision according to some on here no perspective of how hard a job it is as an umpire.

 

[Lumley End]

It's that split decision that is the issue- he doesn't have to make a split second decision. Take time,play the incident back in your mind,ask the obvious questions regarding line,direction and height, bat contact and then make your decision.I wouldn't be - critical of a club umpire for whom it is a part time job and doing it for pittance. We talking here of well paid professionals You have the right to criticise.instant decisions which are made without the necessary thought. Unless it's absolutely plumb.

I completely agree BUT I did actually see a post the other week from someone complaining an umpire did that. They saw that as the umpire wasn’t actually sure and decided to just guess. If they don’t know if it’s out or not straight away then they cant be sure enough to give it was the claim.

 

[Parkside]

There is nothing wrong with that in the slightest but can you think of any constructive ways in which people have suggested it can be improved?

What improvements despite numerous debates has been suggested by any posters??

The best officials,past and present,monitor and advise performances. Pick the brains of the best. Don't think I've ever seen a Michael Gough DRS review overturned. Why is he so good? Likewise with referee Anthony Taylor who rarely is corrected by VAR.
The individual,himself,monitors his own performance with after the match analysis. Practise makes perfect,the more I practise the luckier I get are both true sayings. Referees would help themselves considerably by zero tolerance and punishing questioning of decisions and dissent,simulation should be punished retrospectively.
Any skill is difficult initially,by definition. But it becomes easier with practise and self-analysis.I refute your stance which is basically it's a very difficult task so let's not criticise. How will that stance lead to improvement; it will lead to complacency and a gradual deterioration.
There has always been and always will be unjustifiable baiting of officials; fortunately at the highest level Audible criticism has been eliminated by improved video surveillance.
Complaining,ranting and raving on here certainly won't eliminate the booboys.
I consider umpiring at 1st class level very poor and I've watched and studied cricket over many years. I believe I've earned the right for my views to be respected.

 

[Voice of fair play]

The best officials,past and present,monitor and advise performances. Pick the brains of the best. Don't think I've ever seen a Michael Gough DRS review overturned. Why is he so good? Likewise with referee Anthony Taylor who rarely is corrected by VAR.
The individual,himself,monitors his own performance with after the match analysis. Practise makes perfect,the more I practise the luckier I get are both true sayings. Referees would help themselves considerably by zero tolerance and punishing questioning of decisions and dissent,simulation should be punished retrospectively.
Any skill is difficult initially,by definition. But it becomes easier with practise and self-analysis.I refute your stance which is basically it's a very difficult task so let's not criticise. How will that stance lead to improvement; it will lead to complacency and a gradual deterioration.
There has always been and always will be unjustifiable baiting of officials; fortunately at the highest level Audible criticism has been eliminated by improved video surveillance.
Complaining,ranting and raving on here certainly won't eliminate the booboys.
I consider umpiring at 1st class level very poor and I've watched and studied cricket over many years. I believe I've earned the right for my views to be respected.

I think there is some good points in there mate, nobody for example should be immune to criticism and you should always look to improve anything of course.

However I stand by my opinion that there is a stark general unappreciation of the difficulty of real time decisions with one look and spilt seconds to decide.

Imo people watch replays from perfect slowed down angles and then have a real go everything easier in hindsight and great slowed down views.

The very fact people struggle to name good officials from many different generations and eras validates the point that it’s very very hard to be perceived good.

Even the two you mention I know Notts Forest fans think Anthony Taylor terrible because of decisions he has gave them and he the best in the country.

Maybe I am blinded by the fact there is very little fair constructive criticism and absolutely loads and loads of over the top nonsense towards officials.

But my general point will still stand that it’s a hell of a difficult job giving real time decisions, and absolutely think evidence backs up that view.

While at the same time think fair valid constructive criticism should be welcomed and always looking to improve.