SOL expansion

[Bacon]

You would hope no more than 30. But that will be going on the original design, when I would hope they have a plan to do a little more and improve the facilities and create a little more space for hospitalility, maybe entrances and exits to generally improve the matchday experience. But at a max I wouldn’t expect it to be more than 50-60 million.

A £50 million loan over 10 years would cost around £6-7 million a year including interest

I think the club will feel they have a lot of work to do making sure we're established in the league first, perhaps even targetting a bit of silverware and making the current set up as profitable as possible.

I have a feeling (based on nothing at all) that they'll have a short term target of reaching £30million a seaon in gate receipts with the stadium as it currently is and then try to build from there depending how demand holds up.

We won't be doing this with a bulid it and they will come menatlity.

 

[Zimba]

You might be onto something there I suppose. isn’t it blocked between the premier concourse and the north west upper corner, shouldn’t be an issue to knock an entrance through mind.

I’m sure one of the concourse levels in the north west corner isn’t used much, was where they originally had the Foundation before the Beacon (I could be wrong)

Not too sure about the upper area tbf.

Just think it's the best way not to piss people off. Keep seeing stuff on here like, move the fans to the South Stand, fill the East Stand with hospitality and I just think where are we meant to sit? We're giving over 1/2 our decent seats away to the non working class in a working class area and it's not our ground anymore. It's just the same plastic souless mess which most Premier League grounds have turned into recent years and the true fans are stuck in the gods in shite seats.

 

[oddbod]

Nobody is saying let’s never do it. Just some of us are saying wait to see if we continually sell it out because upto now this is only season 3 of 20 odd since the last extension. Read the latest posts about the construction costs these days. This isn’t something that can be knocked up overnight for peanuts. The people demanding an extension would likely be the first to piss and moan if we did and and our budgets on transfers got cut back as we had to cut our cloth accordingly. What’s wrong with finding our feet, assessing the demand and then deciding? Knee jerk decisions generally aren’t very well thought out or end well.

Fuck that though mate, let’s just do it because suddenly demand exceeds supply for the first time in quarter of a century!

Smart people build the ground to maximise the revenue from it during fat and lean times,as long as you can afford the loan repayments is one sure way of increasing your revenue.more corporate ,more pleb seats will only be a benefit to the club in the long run .I really don't get the mindset of the empty seaters and it really is a British footy phenomenon

 

[BlackOps]

You might be onto something there I suppose. isn’t it blocked between the premier concourse and the north west upper corner, shouldn’t be an issue to knock an entrance through mind.

I’m sure one of the concourse levels in the north west corner isn’t used much, was where they originally had the Foundation before the Beacon (I could be wrong)

Aye the bairn went to some football thing a while ago and that was in the upper north west. Was an entrance ground level but not sure if was around where the press entrance was or further round the north

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Smart people build the ground to maximise the revenue from it during fat and lean times,as long as you can afford the loan repayments is one sure way of increasing your revenue.more corporate ,more pleb seats will only be a benefit to the club in the long run .I really don't get the mindset of the empty seaters and it really is a British footy phenomenon

Read my last post in the thread about it to see why I’m so reluctant at this stage:
Post in thread 'SOL expansion'
SOL expansion

If anyone thinks you’d see the sort of celebrations we did after Ballard’s Coventry goal with a ground diluted with tourists they’re deluded. Bet hey, great for the revenue eh.

 

[Zimba]

Smart people build the ground to maximise the revenue from it during fat and lean times,as long as you can afford the loan repayments is one sure way of increasing your revenue.more corporate ,more pleb seats will only be a benefit to the club in the long run .I really don't get the mindset of the empty seaters and it really is a British footy phenomenon

What you call 'fat and lean', others would call a fad.

No-one knows the answer to that either way which is why smart people wouldn't rush in guns and blazing but would be making plans at the same time so you can pull the gun quickly.

 

[Fletch]

Football in general is a lot more popular than the last time we were in the Premier League - I don’t know how many times this needs to be pointed out. It’s a completely different beast.

We clearly don’t plan to regress on the pitch and we have a waiting list. We also need to be best placed for non-football events. Quinn and Monty’s is sold out and the boxes have a waiting list too.

Get it built.

theres too many have a negative "know your place" attitude, not a huge risk if add say 5000

Read my last post in the thread about it to see why I’m so reluctant at this stage:
Post in thread 'SOL expansion'
SOL expansion

If anyone thinks you’d see the sort of celebrations we did after Ballard’s Coventry goal with a ground diluted with tourists they’re deluded. Bet hey, great for the revenue eh.

agree about tourists comment , but were not a "trendy" team for tourists to follow although definitely get some day trippers, its more about allowing future local generations in to the matches

 

[Ned Land]

Not too sure about the upper area tbf.

Just think it's the best way not to piss people off. Keep seeing stuff on here like, move the fans to the South Stand, fill the East Stand with hospitality and I just think where are we meant to sit? We're giving over 1/2 our decent seats away to the non working class in a working class area and it's not our ground anymore. It's just the same plastic souless mess which most Premier League grounds have turned into recent years and the true fans are stuck in the gods in shite seats.

I would prefer 5000 extra seats sold at a lower price to locals who struggle to pay, than have 2500 extra seats for posh tw@ts who will jump at the first sign of adversity.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

theres too many have a negative "know your place" attitude, not a huge risk if add say 5000

agree about tourists comment , but were not a "trendy" team for tourists to follow although definitely get some day trippers, its more about allowing future local generations in to the matches

Future local generations can and do get to the matches, I see plenty of kids at the SOL. For the last 20 odd years we’ve had thousands of seats for them to come and we’ve been one of the better clubs at pricing it well for them to make it affordable for their families. We can’t base extending a ground for the perceived benefit of local generations on one season since 2002 of selling it out.

And like I’ve also pointed out, have you seen the way pricing is going now across the board? How the hell are local families supposed to afford it in a few years if the trajectory remains the same? It’s worrying tbh.

 

[Mr B]

Then we'd be left with a whole stadium that wouldn't be fit for modern purposes

Might sound crazy, but they’d be nothing to stop the behind the scenes infrastructure being updated. Which after 26 years, you’d think it would be anyway.

 

[Zimba]

Future local generations can and do get to the matches, I see plenty of kids at the SOL. For the last 20 odd years we’ve had thousands of seats for them to come and we’ve been one of the better clubs at pricing it well for them to make it affordable for their families. We can’t base extending a ground for the perceived benefit of local generations on one season since 2002 of selling it out.

And like I’ve also pointed out, have you seen the way pricing is going now across the board? How the hell are local families supposed to afford it in a few years if the trajectory remains the same? It’s worrying tbh.

Best way to deal with that would be to create a family area and once you get above age you have to move out, getting the first choice of the tickets in areas which people gave up their tickets with new families taking those seats.

They should be prioritised rather than Dave who couldn't be bothered to turn up for 10 year but now decides he fancies going when we're doing well. Stuff Dave (I'm sure there's one Dave like that).

 

[Blyth]

Football in general is a lot more popular than the last time we were in the Premier League - I don’t know how many times this needs to be pointed out. It’s a completely different beast.

We clearly don’t plan to regress on the pitch and we have a waiting list. We also need to be best placed for non-football events. Quinn and Monty’s is sold out and the boxes have a waiting list too.

Get it built.

This. There’s no valid argument not to extend.

 

[42]

I would prefer 5000 extra seats sold at a lower price to locals who struggle to pay, than have 2500 extra seats for posh tw@ts who will jump at the first sign of adversity.

As I supporter, id prefer that but from a business prospective it doesnt make much sense to do that as theres no money in it

A £50 million loan over 10 years would cost around £6-7 million a year including interest

I think the club will feel they have a lot of work to do making sure we're established in the league first, perhaps even targetting a bit of silverware and making the current set up as profitable as possible.

I have a feeling (based on nothing at all) that they'll have a short term target of reaching £30million a seaon in gate receipts with the stadium as it currently is and then try to build from there depending how demand holds up.

We won't be doing this with a bulid it and they will come menatlity.

If its to be financed through borrowing, the additional costs to obtain a ROI will make it tricky. However, it can also be financed from player sales which we will make some very good profits on

This. There’s no valid argument not to extend.

Well there is, the obvious one being the return on investment & time it takes for pay back. Which of course none of us really know until were privy to the business plans. However being in a deprived area it is more difficult to achieve than being in london

 

[KST]

Largely though this is down to touristy fans and the increase in that sort of (imo) sickening market. I’m not convinced, and am actually quite proud of, the fact we don’t seem to have that market yet. I would rather 40,000-45,000 proper Sunderland supporters in the ground than 60,000 diluted by tourists. Look what has happened to Spurs compared to the old WHL. Absolutely tragic. I don’t know how many times this needs pointed out either, and I’m aware some will not understand that point of view and see it as holding the club back.

I find it hugely depressing the way English football is going tbh and the drive to ‘increase the revenue!’ at the expense of working class support because this is what is happening - prices all over are shooting up and anybody thinking an extension would mean prices can remain the same or reduce is deluded, they’d simply want to exploit more money out of it somewhere. I’m not even old but the football I grew up with is going in a direction I’m really not keen on.

Yes, tourists have boosted crowds but I also know a lot of people who were more casual fans (even in past PL seasons) who are now season ticket holders or go regularly. I’m pretty confident that the 6k extra fans this season are largely actual Sunderland fans.

Demand is through the roof generally including the tourists. I also think the development of the city centre helps in this regard - you can make a proper day of it in Sunderland now.

Imo, we can’t have a situation where fans, especially kids are locked out. If we can sustain the success and get more bums on seats our core support will only grow. Those casual fans will become more invested and the club grows. Yes that will come with more corporate but it’s the nature of the beast now and we have demand for it, especially Quinn’s/Monty type lounges on the halfway line. The podcast with the CEO indicated an extra 7k general admission seats if we expanded by 10k. That’s fair enough imo.

I get your point re: revenue but this is what needs to be done if we want to sustain- progress I suppose. As had already been pointed out, if we don’t we fall even further down the pecking order. Hosting major non-football events is also brilliant for the city.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Yes, tourists have boosted crowds but I also know a lot of people who were more casual fans (even in past PL seasons) who are now season ticket holders or go regularly. I’m pretty confident that the 6k extra fans this season are largely actual Sunderland fans.

Demand is through the roof generally including the tourists. I also think the development of the city centre helps in this regard - you can make a proper day of it in Sunderland now.

Imo, we can’t have a situation where fans, especially kids are locked out. If we can sustain the success and get more bums on seats our core support will only grow. Those casual fans will become more invested and the club grows. Yes that will come with more corporate but it’s the nature of the beast now and we have demand for it, especially Quinn’s/Monty type lounges on the halfway line. The podcast with the CEO indicated an extra 7k general admission seats if we expanded by 10k. That’s fair enough imo.

I get your point re: revenue but this is what needs to be done if we want to sustain- progress I suppose. As had already been pointed out, if we don’t we fall even further down the pecking order. Hosting major non-football events is also brilliant for the city.

And dare I suggest for these types of fans (this isn’t a dig btw, I like any local fan showing an interest), that being back in the Premier League for the first time in nearly a decade has nothing to do with their sudden staunch interest? This is precisely my point, that when something is new and shiny is not the time to make huge decisions with large financial ramifications because who is to say these people who previously only had a casual interest will return to having a more casual interest in 2-3 years unless we are doing a Man City (which isn’t very likely). My stance all along has been precisely because of this - to just wait a couple of years to see if casual fans like the ones you describe actually mean it and aren’t just latching onto something new and exciting while it’s popular. I can’t understand people’s impatience.

 

[garryt7]

Our corporate areas aren't always sold out . Most people only buy tickets in the founders bar because they can't get regular tickets. If you had 6000 extra regular seats founders bar wouldn't sell out. I think the club needs to biuld higher demand for corporate before they expand.

 

[RedandWhiteRebel]

Our corporate areas aren't always sold out . Most people only buy tickets in the founders bar because they can't get regular tickets. If you had 6000 extra regular seats founders bar wouldn't sell out. I think the club needs to biuld higher demand for corporate before they expand.

The vast majority of corporate sold out weeks in advance of the season starting including all boxes.

76 yards priced at up to £300 per seat behind the goal has had the most availability and even then by match day it has mostly sold out.

 

[Svarta katten]

Read my last post in the thread about it to see why I’m so reluctant at this stage:
Post in thread 'SOL expansion'
SOL expansion

If anyone thinks you’d see the sort of celebrations we did after Ballard’s Coventry goal with a ground diluted with tourists they’re deluded. Bet hey, great for the revenue eh.

This is an absolutely weird take. The vast majority of people now wanting to attend more regularly are longterm fans that go to games when they can.
I bet more than 60,000 individual Sunderland fans went to at least one game last season in the Championship for example. To brand them as tourists or johnny-come-latelies is bizarre.

You could call them fairweather supporters, and I would agree if someone local couldn't be arsed in League 1 or when it's cold. I doubt Sunderland would ever attract significant numbers of actual tourists.

 

[Julio Mackemo]

theres too many have a negative "know your place" attitude, not a huge risk if add say 5000

agree about tourists comment , but were not a "trendy" team for tourists to follow although definitely get some day trippers, its more about allowing future local generations in to the matches

Agree, it does make me laugh in stadiums like Anfield and at Spurs that when throw ins and corners are being taken there are about 500 people in the crowd video'ing it.... boils my proverbial.

We'll never be a tourist club imho. I've been at Manchester Airport before and they have plane loads of fans flying in for Utd matches.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

This is an absolutely weird take. The vast majority of people now wanting to attend more regularly are longterm fans that go to games when they can.
I bet more than 60,000 individual Sunderland fans went to at least one game last season in the Championship for example. To brand them as tourists or johnny-come-latelies is bizarre.

You could call them fairweather supporters, and I would agree if someone local couldn't be arsed in League 1 or when it's cold. I doubt Sunderland would ever attract significant numbers of actual tourists.

But this is partly my worry, because it’s what is happening across the board at PL level. Prices are rising to levels that are at some point if not already going to become unaffordable for your average local fans, families especially (say a dad and his son). And because I agree, in that I doubt our ability to attract tourists, where do the extra fans come from to fill it when it’ll be so expensive? All I’m saying is let’s see if we can fill what we have a bit more regularly than we have since we last extended. The concept seems beyond some people though. Maybe it’s just a reflection of how impatient football fans are these days.

Mental when just thinking let’s see if we can walk before we run is seen as a weird take.