Luke O'Nien

[bedlington mackem]

We’re all gutted how it turned out. We didn’t deserve anything and on another day if Villa score one of those 2 on 1s they had during the second half we could have lost 5 or 6-1. Getting back into it showed character but things also went out way for those 2 goals. To get that to click like that and still not get anything hurts.

People on here on the one hand think Europe would be great and help us retain players and add better quality players in the summer. Others spend more time in the past saying because that was so poor we should just be thankful where we’re at now.

Both can be true. But re Europe we have 5 games to make it happen, we missed a huge opportunity on Sunday, but we still have a chance. But it’s here and now stuff, next year could be harder, we may well finish lower in the league, this could be our best chance for a number of years.

I actually think that the result on sunday will have a galvanizing effect on the squad. They know they played well and could have won.....you could see how gutted they were to concede so late ( unlike the Mag players v Bournemouth who looked as if they knew it was going to happen ) They, also know that at times they were sloppy and need to tighten up. Without doubt they will fight in every game.
Its a 5 game mini season now from 6th down to 11th. We can discount the Mags cos they are shot to bits and also Palace whose sole focus should be to win the Conference.
HTL

Neeone else just think Villa's goals were good goals?

Their third was brilliant tbf.....we would have been purring had we scored that one

 

[DrewC]

Well said, we've had a fantastic season - cushion and nicking a Conference European League spot, or finishing around tenth from here, I'm ok with either - former preferably of course, but thinking back to August I thought we'd be fighting for our lives the whole season

We've had a few clangers of results along the way, but this has been a great campaign

I am humble if this ends up being our best season ever and down hill after that I will say Thank Sunderland for a tremendous year. Memories ever lasting. Yes I want to dream we go to the Champions League but if it never happens Thank you Sunderland stay humble until the end

 

[Rocky77]

Neeone else just think Villa's goals were good goals?

The first one was pretty poor from our point of view. Enzo just let his man run behind him , pretty basic stuff.

 

[chriswallace85]

The first one was pretty poor from our point of view. Enzo just let his man run behind him , pretty basic stuff.

Ball watching a bit, not quite switched on. Decent move though. Good ball from Cash. Good ball from McGinn. Good finish. Good goal. Sloppy start Sunderland.

It's just football innit.

 

[Nathan Gunn]

I read all the criticism of O'Nien being at fault for virtually all the goals and I expected to see him having an absolute nightmare. But having watched the whole game on playback that is not what happened at all - just the Luke O'Nien agenda junkies spouting off again. I'm not saying he's a world beater, but he was not solely responsible for that loss either.

1st goal, Le Fee (hero on here, so not to blame) was ball-watching and let McGinn run into space for an easy un-challenged cross for Watkins. Alderete (another hero) was slow to get across to the danger and OK, O'Nien could have got closer to Watkins but it was a perfect cross, almost on the goal line, so I'm not sure how he could have stopped it anyway. And why was our shorter CB left to do the aerial work instead of the taller Alderete?
2nd goal, Rigg completely lost Maatsen's run leaving him with freedom to pick out Watkins. Again, Alderete slow to get across to block him at the near post and left a huge gap for the cross. And again, why is our taller CB not marking anybody? If O'Nien had got a touch on it, it could only have been an OG anyway.
3rd goal, stuff up between Le Fee and Reinildo gave them the ball for a quick break. Rogers was in his own half when it started with Mukiele (hero) alongside him, but as soon as McGinn got the ball Rogers sprinted all the way to the penalty area, leaving Mukiele gasping for breath miles behind. O'Nien was blocking Watkins' route to goal, but Alderete just stood and watched Rogers run onto Watkins pass.
4th goal, nobody challenged Digne as he crossed into the box. Both O'Nien and Hume (oh no, two boo boys together, what can you expect!) were around Abrahams and he did well to get a little touch on a great cross, but you could again ask why was our smaller CB marking their giant centre-forward, instead of Ballard, who was out of position?

Then there's the attacking cock-ups - why did Sadiki side foot his effort at goal instead of busting the net, and why did Diarra go for a little dink again (obviously he forgot his last disastrous little chip!) instead of placing it in the corner, just belting it, or giving it to Talbi who had an open goal?

And there's the good things that O'Nien did, like the great block on Maatsen at the end of the first half when Sadiki had gone to sleep, and he was in for another dangerous cross.

So, O'Nien was not single-handedly to blame for the loss and he played no worse than the rest of the team. And Le Bris needs to sort out the fact that our tallest CB should be the one expected to mark a tall striker!

you do realise centre forwards intentionally pull on to what they think is the weaker centre back? There's a reason Watkins found himself being marked by O'nien, it's no fluke.

And if Alderete was to follow Watkins wherever he went, that would inevitably have led to gaping holes in our back line for someone else to exploit. The only other time i can recall us facing a similar striker with clever movement was Haaland for City. We had Mukiele and Alderete at centre back that night, both taller, more physical defenders. No "weak link" to pin on.

 

[chriswallace85]

you do realise centre forwards intentionally pull on to what they think is the weaker centre back? There's a reason Watkins found himself being marked by O'nien, it's no fluke.

And if Alderete was to follow Watkins wherever he went, that would inevitably have led to gaping holes in our back line for someone else to exploit. The only other time i can recall us facing a similar striker with clever movement was Haaland for City. We had Mukiele and Alderete at centre back that night, both taller, more physical defenders. No "weak link" to pin on.

Watkins had a great game and is bang in form.

Rogers too.

And McGinn an absolute menace.

It's difficult to deal with players of that calibre all being at it at the same time.

 

[brains]

Ball watching a bit, not quite switched on. Decent move though. Good ball from Cash. Good ball from McGinn. Good finish. Good goal. Sloppy start Sunderland.

It's just football innit.

Good football littered with defensive mistakes though. Their 3rd was a good move when we were overstretched, but obvious defensive errors played a part in the other 3.

 

[SAFCDownUnder]

you do realise centre forwards intentionally pull on to what they think is the weaker centre back? There's a reason Watkins found himself being marked by O'nien, it's no fluke.

And if Alderete was to follow Watkins wherever he went, that would inevitably have led to gaping holes in our back line for someone else to exploit. The only other time i can recall us facing a similar striker with clever movement was Haaland for City. We had Mukiele and Alderete at centre back that night, both taller, more physical defenders. No "weak link" to pin on.

And yet we lost 3-0!

 

[brains]

And yet we lost 3-0!

Guessing he was on about the home game. We played 3 x CB's away against City.

 

[Nathan Gunn]

And yet we lost 3-0!

Drew 0-0 in the other game though, and had chances to win it on the night. That was the game i was referring to mainly

Watkins had a great game and is bang in form.

Rogers too.

And McGinn an absolute menace.

It's difficult to deal with players of that calibre all being at it at the same time.

There's that as will mind. They're in champions league places for a reason

 

[chriswallace85]

Good football littered with defensive mistakes though. Their 3rd was a good move when we were overstretched, but obvious defensive errors played a part in the other 3.

Again, it's football innit.

The perfect game of football would end 0-0.

I wouldn't say there were any outright, glaring errors. Why were mistakes made? Lack of concentration, cohesion, ability? Struggling to cope with the oppo? All the above? Has the defender made a mistake or have they been forced into one?

The vast majority of goals scored, you'd be able to say someone could have done something better somewhere along the line to prevent it. The question is how often are those errors happening? Why are they happening? Is it a consistent problem?

End of the day we've conceded a few goals on the day. Hold ya hands up and say fair play. It's a punishing league. I just don't really see anything in those goals to start digging out any one player in particular. But Luke's an easy target because we know where he's come from, and I don't think that's fair.

 

[Mboma]

End of the day, if everyone's fit is there anyone choosing Onien to start?? I think even his most loyal fans would find it hard.

He's past a few tests this season, but ultimately, we need better. Villa are a cracking side, and we did well to make the scoreline respectable (in the end) but we were poor at the back, and I include all of the defence for that, not just Luke.

With players back, Onien's time should now be spent from the bench. I'm not sure Luke instills confidence from his teammates at the back and there's always an air of unease when he's selected. It's best if we can move away from that and focus on Friday.

 

[brains]

Again, it's football innit.

The perfect game of football would end 0-0.

I wouldn't say there were any outright, glaring errors. Why were mistakes made? Lack of concentration, cohesion, ability? Struggling to cope with the oppo? All the above? Has the defender made a mistake or have they been forced into one?

The vast majority of goals scored, you'd be able to say someone could have done something better somewhere along the line to prevent it. The question is how often are those errors happening? Why are they happening? Is it a consistent problem?

End of the day we've conceded a few goals on the day. Hold ya hands up and say fair play. It's a punishing league. I just don't really see anything in those goals to start digging out any one player in particular. But Luke's an easy target because we know where he's come from, and I don't think that's fair.

In that case , you could concede 4 goals every game and just say it's football. Given our defensive record has been so good all season, I'm sure that RLB will be looking at the goals and discussing what can be done better.

Conceding in the first few minutes of each half is poor for a start. Poor defending by Rigg and Le Fee - it's not just 1 player's fault.

When a few players are making mistakes within the same move then the chances of conceding a goal during that phase of play go up massively.

Ballard and Alderete don't concede 4 goals in that game in my opinion. Three of them come from crosses into the box. Villa exposed a weakness in our defence.

 

[chriswallace85]

In that case , you could concede 4 goals every game and just say it's football. Given our defensive record has been so good all season, I'm sure that RLB will be looking at the goals and discussing what can be done better.

Conceding in the first few minutes of each half is poor for a start. Poor defending by Rigg and Le Fee - it's not just 1 player's fault.

When a few players are making mistakes within the same move then the chances of conceding a goal during that phase of play go up massively.

Ballard and Alderete don't concede 4 goals in that game in my opinion. Three of them come from crosses into the box. Villa exposed a weakness in our defence.

Well no, not if it's happening every game. But it does happen.

And for all we've been defensively sound for the most part, that's the 6th time we've shipped 3 goals this season. And Luke O'Nien didn't play in the other 5.

 

[Super Colin Todd]

Should be on the bench on friday, unless we want to give forest a goal or two, head start!

 

[brains]

Well no, not if it's happening every game. But it does happen.

And for all we've been defensively sound for the most part, that's the 6th time we've shipped 3 goals this season. And Luke O'Nien didn't play in the other 5.

In each game though, there will be reasons why he have conceded as many goals as we did. At the end of the day, as you say, Villa are a good side with good players. Emery is a good manager and it's his job to find ways to gain the fine margins and score goals to win the game. I think it was clear though that they saw Watkin's movement being far too superior for O'Nein and it's something they exploited in 3 of the goals.

First goal - The main mistake is from Le Fee, allowing McGinn to drift away from him into the space. Once the pass to him is made, we are effectively a man short and each player is being dragged out of position to try and recover / compensate. Watkins pulls away from O'Nein as he is caught in two minds whether to come across and cover the space in the centre left by Alderete. It's not a glaring mistake, but Mukiele should be tracking the runner in the middle. O'Nein should probably stay with Watkins.

Second goal - Again stems from Rigg switching off early in the half and allowing their player to run off him. O'Nein is beaten by Watkins' movement and converts a free header inside our 6 yard area.

Third goal - We are overstretched trying to get back into the game and Reinildo loses ball on the half way line. From there it's a great move by Villa.

Fourth goal - Talbi should get out quicker to try and stop the cross. It's a great ball, put into that "corridor of uncertainty". But two of our defenders between them should be dealing with that. Hume allows Abraham to drift across him into space and O'Nien is the "spare" man who could do better to deal with the cross.

All of the above is my opinion of course and they were all good moves in their own right by Villa to score them. But it's the fine margins where our players could potentially do better and prevent the creation of the chance / goal. Fine margins win games at this level. I actually thought O'Nein played well as well with the ball at his feet and bringing the ball out of the defence. I wouldn't even say that any of the goals are howlers on his part or that any of them are really bad errors. It's just fine margins at the top level, ones that make someone a quality centre back at the top half of the PL.

 

[chriswallace85]

In each game though, there will be reasons why he have conceded as many goals as we did. At the end of the day, as you say, Villa are a good side with good players. Emery is a good manager and it's his job to find ways to gain the fine margins and score goals to win the game. I think it was clear though that they saw Watkin's movement being far too superior for O'Nein and it's something they exploited in 3 of the goals.

First goal - The main mistake is from Le Fee, allowing McGinn to drift away from him into the space. Once the pass to him is made, we are effectively a man short and each player is being dragged out of position to try and recover / compensate. Watkins pulls away from O'Nein as he is caught in two minds whether to come across and cover the space in the centre left by Alderete. It's not a glaring mistake, but Mukiele should be tracking the runner in the middle. O'Nein should probably stay with Watkins.

Second goal - Again stems from Rigg switching off early in the half and allowing their player to run off him. O'Nein is beaten by Watkins' movement and converts a free header inside our 6 yard area.

Third goal - We are overstretched trying to get back into the game and Reinildo loses ball on the half way line. From there it's a great move by Villa.

Fourth goal - Talbi should get out quicker to try and stop the cross. It's a great ball, put into that "corridor of uncertainty". But two of our defenders between them should be dealing with that. Hume allows Abraham to drift across him into space and O'Nien is the "spare" man who could do better to deal with the cross.

All of the above is my opinion of course and they were all good moves in their own right by Villa to score them. But it's the fine margins where our players could potentially do better and prevent the creation of the chance / goal. Fine margins win games at this level. I actually thought O'Nein played well as well with the ball at his feet and bringing the ball out of the defence. I wouldn't even say that any of the goals are howlers on his part or that any of them are really bad errors. It's just fine margins at the top level, ones that make someone a quality centre back at the top half of the PL.

Are we now arguing the same thing?

Or course we'll look at how we could have defended the goals better, but it gone now. They done us. All I'm saying is not to lose sleep over it or pillorise the players for it.

 

[Rocky77]

Ball watching a bit, not quite switched on. Decent move though. Good ball from Cash. Good ball from McGinn. Good finish. Good goal. Sloppy start Sunderland.

It's just football innit.

Ball watching a lot. Which ever way you dress it up it was pretty poor from us

 

[offmenut]

I read all the criticism of O'Nien being at fault for virtually all the goals and I expected to see him having an absolute nightmare. But having watched the whole game on playback that is not what happened at all - just the Luke O'Nien agenda junkies spouting off again. I'm not saying he's a world beater, but he was not solely responsible for that loss either.

1st goal, Le Fee (hero on here, so not to blame) was ball-watching and let McGinn run into space for an easy un-challenged cross for Watkins. Alderete (another hero) was slow to get across to the danger and OK, O'Nien could have got closer to Watkins but it was a perfect cross, almost on the goal line, so I'm not sure how he could have stopped it anyway. And why was our shorter CB left to do the aerial work instead of the taller Alderete?
2nd goal, Rigg completely lost Maatsen's run leaving him with freedom to pick out Watkins. Again, Alderete slow to get across to block him at the near post and left a huge gap for the cross. And again, why is our taller CB not marking anybody? If O'Nien had got a touch on it, it could only have been an OG anyway.
3rd goal, stuff up between Le Fee and Reinildo gave them the ball for a quick break. Rogers was in his own half when it started with Mukiele (hero) alongside him, but as soon as McGinn got the ball Rogers sprinted all the way to the penalty area, leaving Mukiele gasping for breath miles behind. O'Nien was blocking Watkins' route to goal, but Alderete just stood and watched Rogers run onto Watkins pass.
4th goal, nobody challenged Digne as he crossed into the box. Both O'Nien and Hume (oh no, two boo boys together, what can you expect!) were around Abrahams and he did well to get a little touch on a great cross, but you could again ask why was our smaller CB marking their giant centre-forward, instead of Ballard, who was out of position?

Then there's the attacking cock-ups - why did Sadiki side foot his effort at goal instead of busting the net, and why did Diarra go for a little dink again (obviously he forgot his last disastrous little chip!) instead of placing it in the corner, just belting it, or giving it to Talbi who had an open goal?

And there's the good things that O'Nien did, like the great block on Maatsen at the end of the first half when Sadiki had gone to sleep, and he was in for another dangerous cross.

So, O'Nien was not single-handedly to blame for the loss and he played no worse than the rest of the team. And Le Bris needs to sort out the fact that our tallest CB should be the one expected to mark a tall striker!

Villa were very good.
Watkins targeted 09 cos of his height and one of the best attackers in England got the better of him - but some saying 09 switched off and was ball watching are just clueless.
The goals , villa cut us apart and they got the better in several parts , as you say, from getting in space to cross, making runs into the box.

I don't think we were shit defending - villa were very very good

 

[Rocky77]

Villa were very good.
Watkins targeted 09 cos of his height and one of the best attackers in England got the better of him - but some saying 09 switched off and was ball watching are just clueless.
The goals , villa cut us apart and they got the better in several parts , as you say, from getting in space to cross, making runs into the box.

I don't think we were shit defending - villa were very very good

1st goal was poor, it was pretty lazy tbh