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Villa Talk Forum

I get it was a chance he should have scored but if he passes that to Talbi and Talbi missed, Diarra gets slaughtered for passing. Agree the chip was not the better option of the 3 or 4 options he had but better players have missed easier chances than him. Seen one comment on Twitter that he should never play for us again, just mental some people
 

Lucky1985 said:
Aye but why take the risk when you can slide it to the right for a tap in?
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Needed to make a quick decision. Le Fée's penalty was worse. If either had gone in we wouldn't be heaping them with praise. I can't understand the criticism.
 
Burndown said:
It was a brilliant save. People for some reason hate on a chipped finish but it’s one of the most effective finishes in modern football with the style of goalkeeping used in 1v1s.

9/10 times, that exact finish goes in. You’ll not see many keepers making that save.
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A chip finish would’ve been third choice in efficiency. The first was a simple side pass to a free talbi who would’ve had a simple tap into an open goal, the second would’ve been to either have taken it round the keeper or shot either side. Last on the list of efficiency would be a risky chip that is hard to pull off even for the highest level players as you have to both get it over the keeper, hope it’s in target and hope it drops down in time to stay under the bar. Can we just all agree the lad fucked up and move on. The people going ott with it are just as bad as those falling over themselves to defend the chip. This will be a learning experience for him like Enzo and his chip Penna.
w73 said:
Needed to make a quick decision. Le Fée's penalty was worse. If either had gone in we wouldn't be heaping them with praise. I can't understand the criticism.
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Give ower if either had went in we’d be banging on about them for years man. 😂
 
Mackemansj1 said:
Give ower if either had went in we’d be banging on about them for years man. 😂
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Needed to make a quick decision. Le Fée's penalty was worse. If either had gone in we wouldn't be heaping them with praise. I can't understand the criticism.

I'm not sure how would became wouldn't when I posted that. Predictive text perhaps? It should have read "we would be heaping them with praise" hence the next sentence, "I can't understand the criticism". I'll check any further posts before hitting enter.
 
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w73 said:
Needed to make a quick decision. Le Fée's penalty was worse. If either had gone in we wouldn't be heaping them with praise. I can't understand the criticism.
Click to expand...
I honestly don’t believe the le Fée pen was worse.

With a penalty a large element of it is what I believe statisticians call ‘game theory’. You have to beat your opponent. The shooter has the advantage as he gets to pick where in the goal he is shooting, and so long as it is on target and not where the keeper chooses, it is a goal.
Most keepers instinctively dive either to the right or left almost all of the time, befor or as the ball is kicked. This means a panenka drifts helplessly over the sprawling keepers legs. Yeah they look cool, but actually it’s not about looking cool, it’s about playing the odds, and provided your chip down the middle doesn’t go over the bar, it is more likeley to score than not. I would guess that standing still as a keeper would result in a penalty save less than 5% of the time, which means a keeper is almost always going to dive.

When a panenka goes wrong though it looks horrendous. If le Fée had blasted a pen to the keepers left and the keeper guessed correctly and tipped it onto the post, then nobody blames le Fée. But where the keeper guessed the panenka, it looks terrible and he gets vilified for it.

In Diarras situation though, sliding the ball to the right of the keeper makes it a 0%game for the keeper. And assuming Talbi doesn’t miss the open goal it’s a certain goal.

Le Fée chose the option that statistically provides the higher goal probability, Diarra chose the option that statistically provides the lowest, in the face of an option that provides an almost certainty of a goal.


I do feel a bit conflicted with though calling Diarra out, because the pile-on on here is ridiculous. I think he played well on the whole, and I like him as a player and I feel he has a lot more to offer us. Whereas I know a lot of people for some obscure reason love to hate a member of our team and have elected him to be our wicker man.

But ultimately, I feel strongly that he made a horrendous choice in that moment, whereas I stand by le fees penalty and feel that it wasn’t horrendous and was just unlucky.
 
Footy fans are all the same
Their goals are attacking master pieces and goals conceded are blunders from the defence
Wonder save at end ,not a miss by us
Lucky1985 said:
I honestly don’t believe the le Fée pen was worse.

With a penalty a large element of it is what I believe statisticians call ‘game theory’. You have to beat your opponent. The shooter has the advantage as he gets to pick where in the goal he is shooting, and so long as it is on target and not where the keeper chooses, it is a goal.
Most keepers instinctively dive either to the right or left almost all of the time, befor or as the ball is kicked. This means a panenka drifts helplessly over the sprawling keepers legs. Yeah they look cool, but actually it’s not about looking cool, it’s about playing the odds, and provided your chip down the middle doesn’t go over the bar, it is more likeley to score than not. I would guess that standing still as a keeper would result in a penalty save less than 5% of the time, which means a keeper is almost always going to dive.

When a panenka goes wrong though it looks horrendous. If le Fée had blasted a pen to the keepers left and the keeper guessed correctly and tipped it onto the post, then nobody blames le Fée. But where the keeper guessed the panenka, it looks terrible and he gets vilified for it.

In Diarras situation though, sliding the ball to the right of the keeper makes it a 0%game for the keeper. And assuming Talbi doesn’t miss the open goal it’s a certain goal.

Le Fée chose the option that statistically provides the higher goal probability, Diarra chose the option that statistically provides the lowest, in the face of an option that provides an almost certainty of a goal.


I do feel a bit conflicted with though calling Diarra out, because the pile-on on here is ridiculous. I think he played well on the whole, and I like him as a player and I feel he has a lot more to offer us. Whereas I know a lot of people for some obscure reason love to hate a member of our team and have elected him to be our wicker man.

But ultimately, I feel strongly that he made a horrendous choice in that moment, whereas I stand by le fees penalty and feel that it wasn’t horrendous and was just unlucky.
Click to expand...
How do you get the 0% if he puts it either side ?
Central free kicks and one on ones are always the most difficult
 
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Lucky1985 said:
I honestly don’t believe the le Fée pen was worse.

With a penalty a large element of it is what I believe statisticians call ‘game theory’. You have to beat your opponent. The shooter has the advantage as he gets to pick where in the goal he is shooting, and so long as it is on target and not where the keeper chooses, it is a goal.
Most keepers instinctively dive either to the right or left almost all of the time, befor or as the ball is kicked. This means a panenka drifts helplessly over the sprawling keepers legs. Yeah they look cool, but actually it’s not about looking cool, it’s about playing the odds, and provided your chip down the middle doesn’t go over the bar, it is more likeley to score than not. I would guess that standing still as a keeper would result in a penalty save less than 5% of the time, which means a keeper is almost always going to dive.

When a panenka goes wrong though it looks horrendous. If le Fée had blasted a pen to the keepers left and the keeper guessed correctly and tipped it onto the post, then nobody blames le Fée. But where the keeper guessed the panenka, it looks terrible and he gets vilified for it.

In Diarras situation though, sliding the ball to the right of the keeper makes it a 0%game for the keeper. And assuming Talbi doesn’t miss the open goal it’s a certain goal.

Le Fée chose the option that statistically provides the higher goal probability, Diarra chose the option that statistically provides the lowest, in the face of an option that provides an almost certainty of a goal.


I do feel a bit conflicted with though calling Diarra out, because the pile-on on here is ridiculous. I think he played well on the whole, and I like him as a player and I feel he has a lot more to offer us. Whereas I know a lot of people for some obscure reason love to hate a member of our team and have elected him to be our wicker man.

But ultimately, I feel strongly that he made a horrendous choice in that moment, whereas I stand by le fees penalty and feel that it wasn’t horrendous and was just unlucky.
Click to expand...
With the goal broken down into "left, middle and right". Penalties down the middle have the lowest success rate. Le Fee took a statistical risk taking a Panenka
 
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JAZZMANB said:
Footy fans are all the same
Their goals are attacking master pieces and goals conceded are blunders from the defence
Wonder save at end ,not a miss by us

How do you get the 0% if he puts it either side ?
Central free kicks and one on ones are always the most difficult
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I didn’t say if he shoots either side of the keeper it’s 0%, I said if he plays it to the right specifically. And I said that because there was a pass to his right that is totally out of the keepers reach, that leaves Talbi with an open goal. We had a 2vs1 against their keeper.

If he plays that pass the keeper has no chance. (Technically he does if Talbi stumbles, but the odds are minuscule of Talbi missing an empty goal from so close).

It’s not an “attacking master piece”, it’s a very easy pass, followed by a very easy tap-in.


woodlebert said:
With the goal broken down into "left, middle and right". Penalties down the middle have the lowest success rate. Le Fee took a statistical risk taking a Panenka
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Thats because you’re including low central strikes, which have a high chance of being saved.
High strikes down the middle such as a Panenka carry a very low statistical likelihood of being saved.


“Premier league stats from Opta Sports say shooting low left has a 77.2% success rate and low right 80%. But aiming to the centre and high has a 97.8% success rate, and there’s a success rate of 80.2% for a low shot to the centre”


You must be logged on to see external links
 
Lucky1985 said:
I didn’t say if he shoots either side of the keeper it’s 0%, I said if he plays it to the right specifically. And I said that because there was a pass to his right that is totally out of the keepers reach, that leaves Talbi with an open goal. We had a 2vs1 against their keeper.

If he plays that pass the keeper has no chance. (Technically he does if Talbi stumbles, but the odds are minuscule of Talbi missing an empty goal from so close).

It’s not an “attacking master piece”, it’s a very easy pass, followed by a very easy tap-in.



Thats because you’re including low central strikes, which have a high chance of being saved.
High strikes down the middle such as a Panenka carry a very low statistical likelihood of being saved.


“Premier league stats from Opta Sports say shooting low left has a 77.2% success rate and low right 80%. But aiming to the centre and high has a 97.8% success rate, and there’s a success rate of 80.2% for a low shot to the centre”


You must be logged on to see external links
Click to expand...
When he receives the ball Talbi is on his blind side way behind him ,like any player through he goes for it, he has no defenders to negotiate,just out run them , if he'd started looking behind himself we'd all be bawling at him
When he chips, Talbi had made up good ground but he's still behind him some way and he still hasn't seen him .
 
JAZZMANB said:
When he receives the ball Talbi is on his blind side way behind him ,like any player through he goes for it, he has no defenders to negotiate,just out run them , if he'd started looking behind himself we'd all be bawling at him
When he chips, Talbi had made up good ground but he's still behind him some way and he still hasn't seen him .
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I’d only there was some other way that Talbi could make him aware of his presence. Like if he could figure out a way to wave his arms about with his voice or something…
 
Sea to Shining Sea said:
It was both a bad miss and an excellent save. Save of the season is a bit OTT
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Beto had a bad miss he nearly hit corner flag,
Habib at least got it on target, imo he should have just blasted it, always need a bit luck when finishing, how many times u see it go through keepers legs.
Hopefully he will learn from it like LeFee.
Considering this is his first season all be it he didn’t play regularly till December think he be some player next season.
Him and Sadiki 👌
 
JAZZMANB said:
When he receives the ball Talbi is on his blind side way behind him ,like any player through he goes for it, he has no defenders to negotiate,just out run them , if he'd started looking behind himself we'd all be bawling at him
When he chips, Talbi had made up good ground but he's still behind him some way and he still hasn't seen him .
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He’s aloud to turn his head to the side you know and have a quick glance. He could of took it really early to the keepers right whole left side of the goal was wide open and angle favourable he got too close to the keeper and too straight left himself no angle
Lucky1985 said:
I’d only there was some other way that Talbi could make him aware of his presence. Like if he could figure out a way to wave his arms about with his voice or something…
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People gan on like he’s wearing blinkers
 
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Lucky1985 said:
I’d only there was some other way that Talbi could make him aware of his presence. Like if he could figure out a way to wave his arms about with his voice or something…
Click to expand...
You should write spy novels
Watch the footage ,think about the distance and the noise in there and if you've ever played think about what Diarra is putting all his concentration on . He missed , another day it might have gone in .
 
Watching again I think he should have shot earlier, not hammer it, just a nice lofted finesse from just outside the box.

Oh well.
 
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