garyeaststand
Winger
I wouldn’t know about ID checks if I didn’t read this place
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SAFC - Fan Ban & Ticket Cancellations
- Thread starter Hetty
- Start date
Disco_Pants93
Striker
Club did release comms on it and addressed it at the fan group talk in thing, to be fair.
If these people moaning about not getting tickets went to 15 or 16 away games and the home cup games over the last 3 seasons .they probs would have had 45 to 55 points this season .but no you have tossers who want ballots others that say a percentage of tickets go to people with low points .u tell that to fans who have spent 6 to 7 grand in the last 3 years building them up.this has Been a vendetta by the ticket office manager or above him to try and make a quick headline about safc fan stealing fans tickers.3 weeks later and thousands of posts and this still not going away
garyeaststand
Winger
when did they communicate it before or after checks came into play? I remember likes of city away I didn’t take ID and luckily didn’t need it, I only started taking it after reading about it on here
Disco_Pants93
Striker
They definitely communicated it after City away not before. Everyone just assumed it was a Man City thing.
Father Jack Hackett
Striker
It wasn’t an issue when we weren’t in the Premier League so, I would suggest those it isn’t popular with are ones who weren’t as keen to go to MK Dons as they are now Liverpool.
I’ll have personally missed out in the past and it may have been to someone as you state but I wasn’t stamping my feet and complaining to the club.
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Disco_Pants93
Striker
I agree with you.
Father Jack Hackett
Striker
Thing is though mate, this lot will be the first to disappear as soon as they get bored/we start not doing well. The branches won’t.
They need protecting imo.
tunstallhill
Striker
the club have never released official comms on it. if they have, show me now where the club confirm officially A) what forms of ID are acceptable, B) what the punishment is for not producing ID, and C) what the protocols are for children i.e do they need ID, and if not, what happens to a child that enters the ground whilst their parent is denied entry.
show us where the club have given official guidance on the above
nobody has suggested that
Disco_Pants93
Striker
Yep, agreed. I personally don't agree that 40 tickets should be able to go to any of 100 people as that isn't far on those not in branches. Like you say though, much of this has stemmed from PL demand and people hopping back on the bandwagon. I remember doing Accrington Stanley a few days after 1 of 2 Wembley appearances that month and none of this was an issue then. I do believe the person using the ticket should be there on their own points but as others have said you run the risk of younguns never getting the chance at a daft one off ticket and getting them hooked for life. It's a difficult situation either way. In the situation in this thread though I just don't feel like enough facts are out there still and doubt they will be.
tunstallhill
Striker
well that makes it alright then? a bloke who has volunteered 1000s of free hours helping sunderland fans and hasn't missed a game in decades in banned for 3 years, whilst the players are allowed to pass on tickets to anyone they wish and sell them for 10x face value.
nice to know where you stand
Disco_Pants93
Striker
The club put out a statement regarding ID checks didn't they? And then the questions were asked and answered in the January supporter meeting?
ID checks at away games have been introduced in response to reports and social media posts thattickets are being passed on. The Club does not want tickets passed on to people who are not eligible, asthis denies fans who have the appropriate points the opportunity to attend. People with points, who havebeen loyal, should be able to apply for tickets at away games (PK).At each away game 10 tickets are checked; five are random, five are targeted. Tickets are targeted ifsuspicious activity is suspected. The Club gives notice to fans randomly selected that a check will berequired, via email, the day before the game. Targeted tickets are not notified. GR and/or ticket officestaff are at away games to support.At Manchester City, seven out of the ten did not turn up to be checked. This has since improved. GRconfirmed the Black Cat Point for any unscanned tickets is removed.If someone does not turn up for an ID check, they will be invited for another check. If two checks aremissed, individuals will be contacted but could be denied future away tickets.In response to questions from DS, PK confirmed that the Club will continue this process.The Red and White Army does not disagree with the principles of checking ticket ownership. DR askedfor clarity in the process; fans need to clearly know what the checks are for, what can be expected,acceptable forms of identification, what are the sanctions, and what is the appeals process.MF concurred. There is panic in the fanbase about it; transparency is important. Clarity about why IDchecks have been introduced would be helpful. The actions of the Club are being questioned becausefans do not understand (PP).
The Club accepts a driving license or passport as acceptable forms of ID.
Father Jack Hackett
Striker
Branches have also always been a thing but they’re easy targets now demand outstrips supply.
Be very mindful who you piss off on the way up as they’ll be waiting on the way back down again, long after the “new” super customers have gone back under their rocks.
I hate The Premier League.
Disco_Pants93
Striker
I don't stand in any particular place on this as i've said because all the facts aren't there. Nobody was kicking up a fuss about corporate tickets before this similarly they weren't kicking up a fuss about where tickets were passed on. All I was meaning was corporate tickets have always been a thing.
tunstallhill
Striker
show me the statement then. show me where they state what type of ID is acceptable and what the punishment is for not having it.
go on. cos they never have. cos they don't give a flying fuck about our away fans.
when i got ID checked at Brighton i still got my loyalty point deducted. i appealed, using a photo of the paper ticket they printed out at brighton, and 2 weeks later they put my loyalty point back on. never had a single email from them apologising or letting me know it had been put back on. not a crumb of communication. they'll have been devestated that i actually did go and its a good job i kept the paper ticket
i've always been vocal about coorperate tickets for away games. i've been against it for years
Father Jack Hackett
Striker
Apart from using images of them for social media
Disco_Pants93
Striker
I fully agree with you that the communication is and has been very poor on it. I haven't denied that. The minutes to the meeting state what ID they deem as acceptable but also agree that's not a statement as such and not as many people may know about those comms. I do seem to recall something being put out on social media regarding away ticket ID checks earlier in the season.
I don't know why you're getting so wound up with me all I've stated is that there's obviously been wrongdoing on both sides to some description and whilst some posters are adamantly in defense of the individual some are also not. As I've said, the facts of the situation aren't all out there aside from what people claim they know. There have clearly been innocent people caught up in it all which isn't a surprise given how the ticket office handle things and that needs to be addressed.
the sleeping giant
Striker
After 150 pages it's hardly surprising it's not easy trying to get a proper handle on things and whilst I don't want to add to that, there is a 'grey' area that hasn't been discussed more generally.
At pretty much every club there are supporters clubs - usually based upon a location and long-standing set-up, when a large group from a town or village would organise travel via a coach / minibus. I know quite a few people who are involved in branches at the bigger clubs, i.e. those who easily sell their away allocation. They mostly operate the same.
Clubs have historically (in my opinion) 'allowed' such branches to operate under slightly different rules for (I think) 2 reasons.
Firstly because the volunteers who run these clubs do a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of getting tickets purchased, allocated and - subsequently - travel sorted. All the club have to do is sell by the easiest method possible and the team on the pitch benefit from the 'loyal' away following this helps create (try telling your mates who've travelled all over the country with, every two weeks, that you 'don't fancy' Shrewsbury on a midweek night and you'll soon lose face with them). When you go to almost every game with your group, it's the day-out that you go for when the football is crap (a blessing given our recent history).
The second big reason was that such groups tend to 'police' the younger / more rowdy element. No-one wants the whole group to be tainted by dickheads causing bother at a service station or in the local boozers & the consequences that come with that (a match ban if the lad who's taken your ticket acts the prick inside the ground soon focuses the mind, too).
In the modern era none of this is as straightforward as it used to be - whether that be around travel plans, or locality of members - but branches still operate in bringing fans together (sometimes, like in our overseas branches, to meet and watch the game together in a pub).
So, here's the nub of it. In the past, clubs have turned a blind eye to tickets being shared amongst the group, in whatever way works for that group. If 53 tickets are purchased en-masse using eligible ID's (a process our clubs policy allows thru the friends and family scheme) then the branch secretary gets on with the rest of it, safe in the knowledge that if it's over-subscribed he'll find a taker for a ticket even if someone drops out late, thus no-one being out of pocket.
I've been a part of such branches, and I've been a 'lone' supporter where you know the lad next to you might have benefited from taking a ticket off his mate because he just happens to be from a certain village in Co. Durham.
Not only have SAFC been complicit in this for many, many years... they've actively used the branch* in question here as something of a fallback position when it's suited them.
There's loads of examples, inc. getting a ticket in the away end for a 'VIP', or a PR exercise or - has happened at Luton a couple of year back, when they've messed up and realised there's 150 unsold tickets that they've needed to get rid of with less than 24 hours notice. At that point branch secretaries become the clubs best mates.
But we now have a different Chief Operations Officer and a different Ticket Office Manager. It would appear that these people are the belt and braces type and when 3 Leeds tickets have been found to be in the hands of people other than the named purchaser, they've asked the branch secretary for a 'word'.
Having been given honest answers, they've decided it's 'widespread misuse' of their process, and then imposed a ban on him across 3 seasons, as well as removing 65 derby tickets from others for no other reason that their branch* secretary made the purchase on their behalf (using their fairly acquired loyalty points). The club have since "recognised that some supporters have been affected through no fault of their own", but that hardly helps soften the blow, does it?
This episode shows the club in a very bad light. The lad they've scapegoated is one of the nicest and most helpful (and incredibly loyal) of supporters you'll ever meet. This action completely undermines the whole 'connected with fans' ethos they peddle to us in their marketing.
It's also throws up the incompetence of our ticket operations generally, as well as the question of where this all takes us, as fans, in the future. Are all branches going to be subjected to the same scrutiny? Can all supporters expect a draconian & heavy-handed sanction if they are complicit in a ticket being passed on between 2 SAFC supporters?
I believe there has been some concern in the club about the integrity of some supporters membership data held on the ticket portal, and who is 'authorised' to make changes on another's account under data protection, etc. Again, all this does is throw up questions about the clubs policy and processes (nb: there are over 200k membership numbers out there). I'm sure we've all seen people asking for membership ID's with a purchase history so that tickets can be purchased for certain home games this season. It's exactly the same thing.
The club could have reviewed all this properly (likely with the help of this branch* secretary, as they've done in the past) and taken the chance to involve supporters groups in designing a new, more joined-up process. They could have looked at their own part in the fiasco, i.e. the ticket offices inability to deal with even the most-straightforward of fans issues, which encourages fans to find their own solutions.
But they went in 2-footed and he we are. It begs the question whether being (hopefully) an established PL club, with designs on European football, will see the chasm between fans and club become greater, not less - as it has with many other PL clubs.
* The ticket office have long recognised this group as a 'proper' branch. If the protocol has not been followed internally to have it added to their Branch Liaison Council, that's down to the club, not the secretary.
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Wakey ftm in Sussex
Striker
With all my heart ….
I hate The Premier League…….
Most if not all our group know this & I actually stated it at Wemberley last May
