Xhaka not happy with the early leavers

[contrarian]

He is a competitive man and I think he hates to lose games especially when a debatable VAR decision is involved
I doubt he is as invested as some in the early leavers debate

 

[JJH]

I always think this too.

Long time ago, I used to drive 50-60k miles per year as a regional manager so spent loads of time in traffic- never had a problem with it- comfy seat, air conditioning, radio/music, chatting on the phone etc.

People furious they can’t get home quicker in order to sit doing nowt at home.

That was your job and you were paid to do it. How do you know what people are going home to do ? Whether they want to sit at home doing nowt or spend time with family, it really has nothing to do with others.

 

[JL1985]

Not really sure why anyone cares about this. People have paid for the ticket, they can leave after 30 seconds if they want. As for the players, concentrate on not losing.

 

[JJH]

He didnt have a go. Fake news


I'll take your word for it. Could nip into a pub or cafe for a drink and wait until the traffic dies down? Make a day of it

Why would I want to do that when I have been at the game and had a drink/ bite to eat already. I get what you are saying but really folk have more things to do than devote their entire life to football. And thats coming from someone who has been going for 50 years, lost jobs and girlfriends because of following safc all over when I was younger.

 

[Cack Stottie]

People vote with their feet.
Play better and the fans stay.

I hate this way of thinking. If the team on the pitch were all twats and not trying I'd half understand it. We've got a team that absolutely does try, until the very end of games, as has been demonstrated repeatedly this season.

I'm in my mid-30s but can only speak about my own experience as a fan but for the vast majority of my time as a supporter we've been shit and getting beat and losing is something i'm well accustomed with.

Demanding entertainment otherwise "we'll turn our back on you when games are still in the balance" just isn't us and isn't Sunderland. Got no idea where this arrogance has come from... maybe because we won more in League One and the Championship and Sunderland not being the big dogs for once is tough for people to take?

Again I'd half understand it if this had also been happening earlier in the season, but it wasn't. Something has flipped in the minds of the collective.

 

[Mowgli]

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One of Liverpool's main men calling it out at Anfield

 

[Cack Stottie]

As an aside, threads like this are very important. There are over 30 pages of discussion here, and there's plenty of discussion going on about it online too. It's important that this is discussed and called out by those who believe that it's harming the team on the pitch, because we'll not get anywhere closer to a solution if we don't chat about it.

The club cannot call people out for it but I can tell you all right now that this is definitely seen as a huge issue internally and the players are very aware of it.

Does that not concern people when they hear that? It really doesn't reflect well on us as fans and I worry about the longer term implications.

We've built up so much positive momentum in recent years and I really don't want to see that get wasted.

We need these difficult discussions to make people think twice about their actions.

 

[Mowgli]

As an aside, threads like this are very important. There are over 30 pages of discussion here, and there's plenty of discussion going on about it online too. It's important that this is discussed and called out by those who believe that it's harming the team on the pitch, because we'll not get anywhere closer to a solution if we don't chat about it.

The club cannot call people out for it but I can tell you all right now that this is definitely seen as a huge issue internally and the players are very aware of it.

Does that not concern people when they hear that? It really doesn't reflect well on us as fans and I worry about the longer term implications.

We've built up so much positive momentum in recent years and I really don't want to see that get wasted.

We need these difficult discussions to make people think twice about their actions.

Can see Xhaka talking about it soon myself. Not like the fans will care

 

[UltimateRadgieGadgie]

As an aside, threads like this are very important. There are over 30 pages of discussion here, and there's plenty of discussion going on about it online too. It's important that this is discussed and called out by those who believe that it's harming the team on the pitch, because we'll not get anywhere closer to a solution if we don't chat about it.

The club cannot call people out for it but I can tell you all right now that this is definitely seen as a huge issue internally and the players are very aware of it.

Does that not concern people when they hear that? It really doesn't reflect well on us as fans and I worry about the longer term implications.

We've built up so much positive momentum in recent years and I really don't want to see that get wasted.

We need these difficult discussions to make people think twice about their actions.

I agree the chat needs to be had and people need to look in the mirror a bit and think is leaving early helping the team? Is my fandom conditional on them winning being mint?

This season has been fantastic in so many ways. For the first time as a fan I'm seeing that we're getting the nice media coverage, everyone outside the club likes us and wants us to do well. That cannot carry on if there are endless images of fans leaving early because the team aren't winning, or anger at the players for misplacing a pass etc.

I hope peope do look in the mirror.

 

[Cack Stottie]

Can see Xhaka talking about it soon myself. Not like the fans will care

Quite possibly, yes.

The club have set up a sub-group of supporters to meet semi-regularly to talk about atmosphere and ways of improving it, which I'm a part of (anyone can attend btw - there are others in this thread who also go to these meetings), and a big feature of the last two meetings have been the rapid decline in atmosphere at games, early leavers etc. David Bruce, Ghisolfi, Chris Waters etc all attend these meetings so it's very much in the mind's eye of people of influence at the club that there's a problem which needs to be nipped in the bud.

Fundamentally, I think anyone excusing the fact people leave early, when it's being pointed out that this is a genuine problem that is now affecting the performances on the pitch, is part of the problem.

We are supporters. Our job is to support, unless there's a valid reason to not support them. In the past, when we had people at the club who took it for granted and showed it no respect, there was valid reason to vote with your feet. This team, this manager, this owner, etc etc can not be placed in that category. That alone is why we should be calling it out for what it is.

On Saturday we were one goal down with 83 minutes gone and there were lines of people streaming out down the stairs.

I tried to picture myself as one of the players witnessing that. Is that going to inspire you to push even harder to get a goal back, or is it going to demoralise you, knowing the people who are supposed to be there to offer support are giving up?

This is really very simple to me. You are not being a supporter if you turn your back on the team when there's a game still going on and, crucially, we're still in it!

I agree the chat needs to be had and people need to look in the mirror a bit and think is leaving early helping the team? Is my fandom conditional on them winning being mint?

This season has been fantastic in so many ways. For the first time as a fan I'm seeing that we're getting the nice media coverage, everyone outside the club likes us and wants us to do well. That cannot carry on if there are endless images of fans leaving early because the team aren't winning, or anger at the players for misplacing a pass etc.

I hope peope do look in the mirror.

There are images of fans piling out of the ground early on Getty images, with the captions noting that this was while the game was still going on. It's embarrassing.

 

[superhans1]

Again I'd half understand it if this had also been happening earlier in the season, but it wasn't. Something has flipped in the minds of the collective.

Expectation. In too many people's minds we've gone from big underdogs to being expected to not only win but entertain. In reality we were underdogs against Brighton.

 

[tunstallhill]

Not really sure why anyone cares about this. People have paid for the ticket, they can leave after 30 seconds if they want. As for the players, concentrate on not losing.

Because it matters. The players are human beings and seeing the ground 40% empty with 5 mins of injury time remaining will suck some life out of them..

It shouldn't, but it will..that's human nature

 

[Cack Stottie]

Expectation. In too many people's minds we've gone from big underdogs to being expected to not only win but entertain. In reality we were underdogs against Brighton.

Aye, lots of bruised egos. Brighton have been a consistent presence in the top half of the Premier League for almost a decade and are routinely used as the example to which other clubs should aspire to be. They are not as big a club as Sunderland but they are lightyears ahead of us right now, and I think that some have a hard time accepting that fact. It was the same after Fulham and it was the same after Brentford battered us - unless a team is viewed as 'bigger' than us, people show them no respect and forget all the context of where we are at right now and how quickly we've lept from League One to the Premier League.

 

[Safc98]

I stay til the end every week, start & join in with chants etc. I’m not supporting fans who leave.

They’re the same fans who didn’t bother coming in league 1 or the championship. They’re only bothered about us when we’re doing well. I’d love us to have 47k who would turn up and support the team regardless, but in reality we only have at 30k of them.

I don’t agree with it, but it doesn’t surprise me. Players having a pop at fans never sits well with me. The players were far more culpable on Saturday than the fans were. One of them decided to have a lie down in the 6 yard box whilst Brighton scored ffs.


I am in the same boat. As I’ve said in my reply to Chewit, only around 2/3rds of the stadium are like that though, so it shouldn’t be a surprise to anyway.


They do if they’re still giving it their all. Lying down in the box whilst the opposition score isn’t giving it your all.

I’m all for players having a pop at you tbh. Sorry like I’m not going to stick up for you over Granit Xhaka am I

 

[Hugh Gains]

He's spot on mind. The truth hurts sometimes.

1-0 down in a Premier League game and half the crowd have fucked off 10 minutes before the end.

Yes, I wasn't there so I know the reaction I'll get and fair enough I suppose, but let's be honest, the atmosphere was pathetic in comparison to what it can be.

A shame really because with a raucous atmosphere it goes a huge way to giving us that extra bit of juice, swaying refereeing decisions etc.

It sounded like a pre-season friendly.

Still in the game if there’s only a goal in it

Will never understand people who leave early with score lines like that

The amount of people who leave around me on 33 mins to get a pint is absolutely bizarre to me aswell and stream back in on 55 mins, to leave on 82

I watched the game and I was very surprised at how many had left with five minutes to go, it also got a mention on talk sport at how many had left early.

Not getting anything out of that game has effectively made 7th and Europe unrealistic now, there was also a chance had we picked up 3 points there.

And that cup exit last week was a real dampener.

The only thing we’ve to play for now is league position which is largely irrelevant

We’ve stayed up and that’s the main goal, obviously buzzing. But getting knocked out the cup to port vale is a real stinker and sours the mood.

The style off football and attaching threat has been shite for months. Can’t blame the fans for not getting excited about that.

We’re a crowd who go ballistic over a real tackle

We don’t actually want much but the style of plan can be negative for me

 

[Turnip from the Tip]

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One of Liverpool's main men calling it out at Anfield

And it’s on a minute scale at Anfield compared to the SOL too.

There were one or two empty seats in the front one main stand there yesterday. 15-20,000 pink seats on 88 minutes on Saturday.

We are the wiser offenders in the league - maybe country when it comes to waving the match early. Very strange given everyrhing that has happened in the last 15 months or so.

 

[tunstallhill]

Quite possibly, yes.

The club have set up a sub-group of supporters to meet semi-regularly to talk about atmosphere and ways of improving it, which I'm a part of (anyone can attend btw - there are others in this thread who also go to these meetings), and a big feature of the last two meetings have been the rapid decline in atmosphere at games, early leavers etc. David Bruce, Ghisolfi, Chris Waters etc all attend these meetings so it's very much in the mind's eye of people of influence at the club that there's a problem which needs to be nipped in the bud.

Fundamentally, I think anyone excusing the fact people leave early, when it's being pointed out that this is a genuine problem that is now affecting the performances on the pitch, is part of the problem.

We are supporters. Our job is to support, unless there's a valid reason to not support them. In the past, when we had people at the club who took it for granted and showed it no respect, there was valid reason to vote with your feet. This team, this manager, this owner, etc etc can not be placed in that category. That alone is why we should be calling it out for what it is.

On Saturday we were one goal down with 83 minutes gone and there were lines of people streaming out down the stairs.

I tried to picture myself as one of the players witnessing that. Is that going to inspire you to push even harder to get a goal back, or is it going to demoralise you, knowing the people who are supposed to be there to offer support are giving up?

This is really very simple to me. You are not being a supporter if you turn your back on the team when there's a game still going on and, crucially, we're still in it!


There are images of fans piling out of the ground early on Getty images, with the captions noting that this was while the game was still going on. It's embarrassing.

I admire your efforts but I think ultimately it's fruitless..

People don't see themselves as part of the whole..they think to themselves that I makes no difference if "just me" leaves, what difference will it make if I leave ?

But multiply that by 10,000 people and it makes a hell of difference.

The club need to be careful not to call it out too blatantly otherwise it could backfire, but in the past the 'till the end' campaign got it spot on but it was coupled with big important goals in the dying seconds.

The fact we don't see ourselves as underdogs against Fulham and Brighton is playing a massive part.

The start of the season we played Brentford and west ham at home and the felt like cup ties against bigger opposition, the fact we've pulled level with Brighton and Fulham so quickly is obviously to be commended, but it's partly causing this.

Maybe one of the players calling it out might effect a few people, but some people won't be bothered at all. A lot of people go home games as part of a bigger day out and routine with Thier mates and unfortunately aren't really that bothered about results in bog standard games.

Then you have the likes of my dad who on 88 mins will say 'right I've seen enough ' and heads off the pub to have a pint

There's too many different factors at play to solve this easily..

The fact that we didn't look like scoring a goal in a million years adds to it. If RLB has brought on Mayenda for Diarra and went 4-4-2 the last 20 mins it would have helped. But he brought on cirkin

When you include the traffic issues, and fact it takes 20 mins to get down the east stand stairs from the back rows, you've got a cluster fuck of a problem to try and solve

 

[Binxy]

It happens everywhere, anyone that says otherwise is full of shit.

 

[BarnesPark]

That was your job and you were paid to do it. How do you know what people are going home to do ? Whether they want to sit at home doing nowt or spend time with family, it really has nothing to do with others.

I get that, and I appreciate that a few people will have commitments- I just think that people are programmed to rush everywhere these days, often with no real necessity.

Maybe you’re right and maybe it’s mainly people desperate to get home for the kids bath time so they can enjoy some precious family time which otherwise they could never get back .

 

[UltimateRadgieGadgie]

And it’s on a minute scale at Anfield compared to the SOL too.

There were one or two empty seats in the front one main stand there yesterday. 15-20,000 pink seats on 88 minutes on Saturday.

We are the wiser offenders in the league - maybe country when it comes to waving the match early. Very strange given everyrhing that has happened in the last 15 months or so.

It's a proper 'what have you done for me lately' mindset.