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Club loan taken out

Lots for this season. Then maximum loss would increase next season.

Geertruida permanent maybe? Big loan signing? Right winger? All three...?

IF we have the option to sign Geertruida permanently in the summer, I’m not sure why we’d do it now and use funds that could be used elsewhere.

If we’re in a strong position come NYD (maybe not as strong as 4th like), we’ll be able to attract some of the best young talent from around Europe who need minutes. The lad from Real Madrid who’s not getting much game time but it’s highly rated by them has been mentioned, and we were linked in the summer.

A right winger would be very high on my list too.
 

IF we have the option to sign Geertruida permanently in the summer, I’m not sure why we’d do it now and use funds that could be used elsewhere.

If we’re in a strong position come NYD (maybe not as strong as 4th like), we’ll be able to attract some of the best young talent from around Europe who need minutes. The lad from Real Madrid who’s not getting much game time but it’s highly rated by them has been mentioned, and we were linked in the summer.

A right winger would be very high on my list too.
We did similar with Isidor last year. And got Le Fee in on loan.

Similar this time around...?
 
IF we have the option to sign Geertruida permanently in the summer, I’m not sure why we’d do it now and use funds that could be used elsewhere.

If we’re in a strong position come NYD (maybe not as strong as 4th like), we’ll be able to attract some of the best young talent from around Europe who need minutes. The lad from Real Madrid who’s not getting much game time but it’s highly rated by them has been mentioned, and we were linked in the summer.

A right winger would be very high on my list too.
I think that's good point. If we're idk let's say 7th after city at home?
I've got no issue with us trying to attract players in that'll get us that extra push
 
The charge filed at Companies House doesn’t reveal the amount borrowed or the repayment term (as most don’t) so it’s pointless getting into speculation about the purpose of the loan.

As GOP has said, there’s absolutely nothing to indicate that the club is doing anything other than operating in the most professional way most of us have seen in our lifetimes.
 
So, now its borrowing money to gamble with. That is normally the way to financial ruin

Gambling is dangerous enough without borrowing the money to gamble.

Your scenario may mean that the extra 3 places higher ( if it happens) pays off the cost of the loan, it doesn't however replace the money you have spent now, so you do not have it for next season. The club will not earn enough money to pay the cost of the loan and to replace the funds it has taken early

You can't spend the same pot of money twice. If it is spent this season, then there is a shortfall in the money for next season

No, sorry, this is an insane take.

Let me break it down.

The PL gives us a minimum of £122m via TV payments for finishing bottom. This is the minimum guaranteed income, however it is paid in installments, meaning we won't have received £122m until the end of the season, and the installments only cover TV money, not prize money which isn't known. By a rough estimate, around £30m will come in between January-April 2026, which is the amount they are 'borrowing' against. This is really what is known as a 'rolling credit facility' - a financial instrument to cash flow-positive/low liquidity businesses to spend money without needing to reshuffle assets or 'save up' to spend money they know is coming.

Premier League clubs are often in constant need of that liquid cash. The amount of costs that they incur, and the sheer scale of them, make them unlike most businesses. Most importantly, there is a competitive disadvantage to not being able to spend cash that you know will come in. As a promoted club, that is particularly true, as to not have access to that cash would mean we were spending £10-20m in a league of £100m-200m competitors. This is why every club, even the biggest, has a rolling credit facility. It means the club can spend money before it comes in, without owners needing to sign cheques and move their personal money around from illiquid assets, for reasonable expenses that they approve of.

So there's no gamble at this stage. The money for this ~£30m is already guaranteed. It is maybe - maybe - to give them flexibility to do a deal or two that fits with where our range of finishing positions is in January. For example, if we finish 10th, we'll actually get £36m more in TV money this year. If we're around that position in January, getting a player in to cover an injury or AFCON absence will require some kind of up-front fee, even if the rest of the payments are spread out. The credit facility covers that, and most importantly, the owners will likely have established a 'floor' of where we can finish by that stage. If we're back in the mix, they may see a player as essential. If not...

And I want to touch on one point very specifically:
Your scenario may mean that the extra 3 places higher ( if it happens) pays off the cost of the loan, it doesn't however replace the money you have spent now, so you do not have it for next season

This is not the model they are looking to pursue, and I'd be surprised if that has changed off the back of 6-7 solid results.

The entire premise of the sustainable player trading model is that we will likely sell 1-3 of the players we bought this year for a significant profit. I think the likes of Sadiki, Roefs, Diarra, Talbi, Mayenda, Rigg, Isidor, Mukiele and several others are all likely to turn a huge % profit if sold. This is the backbone of the model, that if you do sell 1-2 players and bring in £100m, you do not spend £100m in the transfer market, you spend maybe £60m instead on 2-3 players who you think could do the same, and the £40m you keep is profit that impacts the rest of the business positively, gives you financial reserves, pays off debts, invests in infrastructure, and builds a cash flow positive model that grows Brighton-style with calculated risks every year, rather than huge gambles. Even then, you keep a rolling credit facility open because of the nature of the business.
 
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The charge filed at Companies House doesn’t reveal the amount borrowed or the repayment term (as most don’t) so it’s pointless getting into speculation about the purpose of the loan.

As GOP has said, there’s absolutely nothing to indicate that the club is doing anything other than operating in the most professional way most of us have seen in our lifetimes.

It actually does specific it's between January and April's PL revenue, so that means the TV money (£122m) so I'd guess it's somewhere between £30-40m.

I do agree though, anyone doubting KLD at this stage needs their heads checking.
 
Wish people would trust the ownership who have proven over several years that they don't take financial risks. They know what they're doing.
I think your right indeed we have to hope Dreyfuss can cover any spending in every circumstance. The latest statements from club suggest come what may they can cover it. . I say that because despite the pain of the Short years he saved the club at the end of his tenure and that in my opinion should not be forgotten. He did not have to do what he did. I don't think we will have to test the extent of Dreyfus financial muscle to that extent but he is not bank rolling the club like Short did it appears to me. Seems Dreyfus does not personally guarantee the cheques as Short did and that is a slight worry. Short promised he would leave the club solvent when he left and did so. I hope Dreyfus would do the same if God forbid we were ever in that highly unlikely position again i,e if he gambles the house he can cover the debt personally.

The significant difference between Short and Dreyfus is Short was mugged by agents and shocking internal incompetence and his own lack of knowledge about running a football club. Dreyfus does not display those "short" comings, pun intended Shorts failings lead to disastrous spending,disastrous managers toxic on and off pitch. I think given that experience its right that the club are scrutinised over finances and are transparent, Supporters should take nothing for granted and concerns should not be dismissed as paranoid or unreasonable comment, The club needs to be able to be sound financially what ever league we are in, future generations deserve that. We look set for an exciting future but our own history demonstrates turbulent days can happen quickly Leeds Forest Derby the Dark side can all testify how easy it is to fall. Sound finances are vital.

We have a lot of rising value on the pitch already Alderrete ,Roefs the Muke, Isidor, Myenda, Ballard and Hume among that list of transfer assets. So plenty of reason to trust this ownership but not unquestioningly.
 
It actually does specific it's between January and April's PL revenue, so that means the TV money (£122m) so I'd guess it's somewhere between £30-40m.

I do agree though, anyone doubting KLD at this stage needs their heads checking.
Not just KLD btw. Board of Directors. CFO reporting to said Board. Lot of intelligent people. Also, loads of clubs do this. I think people see “Legal Charge” and freak out.
 
None whatsoever. The club is better run now than at any point in my time supporting us (60 years and counting)


It's essentially a 4 month loan - we basically get the PL payments we would have got from the PL between now and April now, and pay the loan off as they come in. Those four instalments are probably around £30m. Four months interest at 10% will be less than £1m, given the balance will owed will reduce month by month. Peanuts in the context of PL money.

Just to more or less reinforce your assessment

Compared to (if anyone can be bothered to read) this
 
None whatsoever. The club is better run now than at any point in my time supporting us (60 years and counting)


It's essentially a 4 month loan - we basically get the PL payments we would have got from the PL between now and April now, and pay the loan off as they come in. Those four instalments are probably around £30m. Four months interest at 10% will be less than £1m, given the balance will owed will reduce month by month. Peanuts in the context of PL money.
Really encouraging to read that.
Cheers.
 
You’re talking absolute nonsense. We’re effectively brining forward a payment due to us in April to have it now.
They aren’t mind. Spending money in January means less to spend in the summer - both in cash and in the bigger psr loss for the season. To be fair it may also mean bigger prize money earned this season. Those figures may net off or it may work out better for us. Personally I’d rather we didn’t if I’m honest. I’m not worried about the finances, I just don’t think January is a particularly good month to do business in.
 
Sorry, I didn't see that GOM take before I more or less repeated it verbatim above, but it's hopefully reassuring to others when people who have knowledge of how this works come to the same conclusions independently, from both owner/operator and accountant perspectives.
 
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No, sorry, this is an insane take.

Let me break it down.

The PL gives us a minimum of £122m via TV payments for finishing bottom. This is the minimum guaranteed income, however it is paid in installments, meaning we won't have received £122m until the end of the season, and the installments only cover TV money, not prize money which isn't known. By a rough estimate, around £30m will come in between January-April 2026, which is the amount they are 'borrowing' against. This is really what is known as a 'rolling credit facility' - a financial instrument to cash flow-positive/low liquidity businesses to spend money without needing to reshuffle assets or 'save up' to spend money they know is coming.

Premier League clubs are often in constant need of that liquid cash. The amount of costs that they incur, and the sheer scale of them, make them unlike most businesses. Most importantly, there is a competitive disadvantage to not being able to spend cash that you know will come in. As a promoted club, that is particularly true, as to not have access to that cash would mean we were spending £10-20m in a league of £100m-200m competitors. This is why every club, even the biggest, has a rolling credit facility. It means the club can spend money before it comes in, without owners needing to sign cheques and move their personal money around from illiquid assets, for reasonable expenses that they approve of.

So there's no gamble at this stage. The money for this ~£30m is already guaranteed. It is maybe - maybe - to give them flexibility to do a deal or two that fits with where our range of finishing positions is in January. For example, if we finish 10th, we'll actually get £36m more in TV money this year. If we're around that position in January, getting a player in to cover an injury or AFCON absence will require some kind of up-front fee, even if the rest of the payments are spread out. The credit facility covers that, and most importantly, the owners will likely have established a 'floor' of where we can finish by that stage. If we're back in the mix, they may see a player as essential. If not...

And I want to touch on one point very specifically:


This is not the model they are looking to pursue, and I'd be surprised if that has changed off the back of 6-7 solid results.

The entire premise of the sustainable player trading model is that we will likely sell 1-3 of the players we bought this year for a significant profit. I think the likes of Sadiki, Roefs, Diarra, Talbi, Mayenda, Rigg, Isidor, Mukiele and several others are all likely to turn a huge % profit if sold. This is the backbone of the model, that if you do sell 1-2 players and bring in £100m, you do not spend £100m in the transfer market, you spend maybe £60m instead on 2-3 players who you think could do the same, and the £40m you keep is profit that impacts the rest of the business positively, gives you financial reserves, pays off debts, invests in infrastructure, and builds a cash flow positive model that grows Brighton-style with calculated risks every year, rather than huge gambles. Even then, you keep a rolling credit facility open because of the nature of the business.
Lots of words, but it doesn't deal with the fact you are spending this season money that you would otherwise have had to spend next season. Thus leaving you even more short next season and having to borrow more next season

As for saying there is no gamble? Its exactly what the club are doing. Spending money it doesn't have yet is always a gamble

You talk about club making a profit - in 2023/4 only 7 clubs made a profit in Premier League - and over the whole 92 only 14 clubs reported a profit, and that is after player sales are taken into account. Seems like a huge gamble to rely on making a profit when by far the vast majority of clubs do not. Indeed only 1/3 in Premier League did
You’re talking absolute nonsense. We’re effectively brining forward a payment due to us in April to have it now.
You better tell the accountancy profession that their teachings are wrong and you have discovered a way to spend money several times over

You are right it is bringoing forward a payment - which means in April you will not have the money as its already been spent.

Spending money you do not yet have, even if guaranteed income is always going to mean less money available in the future.

This is the reality of the situation. Its how debts spiral because you are spending money you have not yet received, good for today, but leaving you even shorter in the future, not to mention the loan arrangement and interest charged
 
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Lots of words, but it doesn't deal with the fact you are spending this season money that you would otherwise have had to spend next season. Thus leaving you even more short next season and having to borrow more next season

As for saying there is no gamble? Its exactly what the club are doing. Spending money it doesn't have yet is always a gamble

You talk about club making a profit - in 2023/4 only 7 clubs made a profit in Premier League - and over the whole 92 only 14 clubs reported a profit, and that is after player sales are taken into account. Seems like a huge gamble to rely on making a profit when by far the vast majority of clubs do not. Indeed only 1/3 in Premier League did

You better tell the accountancy profession that their teachings are wrong and you have discovered a way to spend money several times over

You are right it is bringoing forward a payment - which means in April you will not have the money as its already been spent.

Spending money you do not yet have, even if guaranteed income is always going to mean less money available in the future.

This is the reality of the situation. Its how debts spiral because you are spending money you have not yet received, good for today, but leaving you even shorter in the future, not to mention the loan arrangement and interest charged
Kyril Louis Dreyfus estimated personal nett worth £2bn.

Louis Dreyfus Group estimated nett worth £18.2bn.

Just saying...
 
Lots of words, but it doesn't deal with the fact you are spending this season money that you would otherwise have had to spend next season. Thus leaving you even more short next season and having to borrow more next season

As for saying there is no gamble? Its exactly what the club are doing. Spending money it doesn't have yet is always a gamble

You talk about club making a profit - in 2023/4 only 7 clubs made a profit in Premier League - and over the whole 92 only 14 clubs reported a profit, and that is after player sales are taken into account. Seems like a huge gamble to rely on making a profit when by far the vast majority of clubs do not. Indeed only 1/3 in Premier League did

You better tell the accountancy profession that their teachings are wrong and you have discovered a way to spend money several times over

You are right it is bringoing forward a payment - which means in April you will not have the money as its already been spent.

Spending money you do not yet have, even if guaranteed income is always going to mean less money available in the future.

This is the reality of the situation. Its how debts spiral because you are spending money you have not yet received, good for today, but leaving you even shorter in the future, not to mention the loan arrangement and interest charged

Log off man, ffs
 
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