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SOL expansion

riffraff said:
The fear of empty seats seems to bother a lot of fans more than I believe it should.
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I always find this baffling - even Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City have league cup matches / early stage European matches that they don’t sell out. Only Liverpool and United consistently sell out.

You don’t build a stadium for the lowest possible crowd, you want it to maximise revenues 70-80% of the time.

United, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Leeds, Spurs, and Newcastle we would comfortably sell out a 55k ground. Aston Villa, Everton and West Ham all big clubs that would draw large crowds to the SoL.

That’s 11 of our 19 PL home games - it’s a no brainer to extend the ground.
 

Brixton said:
I always find this baffling - even Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City have league cup matches / early stage European matches that they don’t sell out. Only Liverpool and United consistently sell out.

You don’t build a stadium for the lowest possible crowd, you want it to maximise revenues 70-80% of the time.

United, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Leeds, Spurs, and Newcastle we would comfortably sell out a 55k ground. Aston Villa, Everton and West Ham all big clubs that would draw large crowds to the SoL.

That’s 11 of our 19 PL home games - it’s a no brainer to extend the ground.
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Having people spread out means a poorer atmosphere and increases stewarding, catering and policing costs unnecessarily. It’s why the chuckle brothers closed the upper tier.
 
Brixton said:
I always find this baffling - even Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City have league cup matches / early stage European matches that they don’t sell out. Only Liverpool and United consistently sell out.

You don’t build a stadium for the lowest possible crowd, you want it to maximise revenues 70-80% of the time.

United, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Leeds, Spurs, and Newcastle we would comfortably sell out a 55k ground. Aston Villa, Everton and West Ham all big clubs that would draw large crowds to the SoL.

That’s 11 of our 19 PL home games - it’s a no brainer to extend the ground.
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Those games didn’t see a huge uptake in ticket sales last time we were in the prem, why would they going forward?
 
The Beautiful Game said:
Separate things

Sustained premier league football - Ten years

Midtable finishes - 13th, 10th and 13th
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Just one single fluke top half finish under the fat fake jaudi in ten years, multiple relegation battles. We were largely shite and a shambles under Ellis Short. SAFC now is a completely different animal to Short's Sunderland. KLD has the ambition, but it's also backed up not just with the funds but by surrounding himself with a brilliant team in all areas, football, commercial, talent acquisition, finance, legal, etc. Some of these folks have advised the L-D empire for years, safe hands it seems. Short genuinely had no clue, just the money which he wasted in huge quantities.

Look at the trajectory since KLD took over, just spent £180M on players (who honestly saw that coming). Short spent money on players and never recouped a penny. Think what some of these players will be worth now/by the end of the season, it is mind boggling. Wilson cost £4M, Roefs £10M, Mayenda £1M, Sadiki £15M, Mukiele £12M and the list goes on.

Whatever will be re the Stadium mate, but I understand he wants to see us playing in Europe asap and genuinely breaking into the 2nd pack in the PL, part of the plan is likely expanding the Stadium.
 
Brian Griffin said:
The meltdoon if we end up with a bigger stadium than the Mags will be tremendous
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They’d just laugh at us for not filling it, doubt they’d care
Hot Since 82 said:
Just one single fluke top half finish under the fat fake jaudi in ten years, multiple relegation battles. We were largely shite and a shambles under Ellis Short. SAFC now is a completely different animal to Short's Sunderland. KLD has the ambition, but it's also backed up not just with the funds but by surrounding himself with a brilliant team in all areas, football, commercial, talent acquisition, finance, legal, etc. Some of these folks have advised the L-D empire for years, safe hands it seems. Short genuinely had no clue, just the money which he wasted in huge quantities.

Look at the trajectory since KLD took over, just spent £180M on players (who honestly saw that coming). Short spent money on players and never recouped a penny. Think what some of these players will be worth now/by the end of the season, it is mind boggling. Wilson cost £4M, Roefs £10M, Mayenda £1M, Sadiki £15M, Mukiele £12M and the list goes on.

Whatever will be re the Stadium mate, but I understand he wants to see us playing in Europe asap and genuinely breaking into the 2nd pack in the PL, part of the plan is likely expanding the Stadium.
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All that sounds exactly like what we were saying when Quinn mentioned his magic carpet, or short first bought us out and became our first billionaire owner. Unless we are in Europe, things will go the same way. We had a run of finishing 13th, 10th and 13th again and still attendances fell. We were signing players like bent and gyan and we were falling over ourselves with ambition. Once the novelty wears off and we start seeing the same bottom half finishes (which would actually be a huge achievement) the interest will dwindle once again as it always has done since we moved there.
 
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I would love to know KLD’s mindset regarding this.
If I owned the club and had his wealth I would fully extend the ground with upgraded concourses and fan facilities but I’m local and supported the lads for 60+ years. Wouldn’t bother me the stadium not being full to capacity as long as the lower bowl was filled and there was capacity for future generations.
KLD obviously has a project and ambition, I only hope that it extends to giving us a world class stadium as well as a challenging PL team. What a legacy that would be to leave behind.
 
Brixton said:
I always find this baffling - even Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City have league cup matches / early stage European matches that they don’t sell out. Only Liverpool and United consistently sell out.

You don’t build a stadium for the lowest possible crowd, you want it to maximise revenues 70-80% of the time.

United, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Leeds, Spurs, and Newcastle we would comfortably sell out a 55k ground. Aston Villa, Everton and West Ham all big clubs that would draw large crowds to the SoL.

That’s 11 of our 19 PL home games - it’s a no brainer to extend the ground.
Click to expand...
It will come down to money as these things always do !The sol is hopeless for corporate offerings and that is clearly bothering the ownership group ,They clearly are looking to see how to squeeze more money out of the fans and a block to that is the size of the concourse and the fans are not spending enough in the ground before ,at half time and at the end of the game .

When you add a box you have to cater for ancillary space servicing that box kitchens ,food areas walkways ect and that takes up space and investment ......As part of the proposed south stand extension is designed clearly for corporate offerings (hence the 2000 fewer seats than original design and larger concourse )

The club have supercharged the revenue from the kit sales and im sure they will attempt to do the same to the corporate side of the business and in my book because of the huge cost involved will include extra seats to get more bums inside the stadium ....Anyway i have commented on this subject for what appears months and months and not moving the dial one bit and im getting dizzy from the circular arguments over and over again from entrenched views ..so i will leave it at this: the ground will be extended thats for sure and it will involve extra seats but at its heart it will be a business decision only,to make money in the long term and the ownership group will ignore the sniping of short term detractors from blocking that goal!
 
Rob the Ref said:
I would love to know KLD’s mindset regarding this.
If I owned the club and had his wealth I would fully extend the ground with upgraded concourses and fan facilities but I’m local and supported the lads for 60+ years. Wouldn’t bother me the stadium not being full to capacity as long as the lower bowl was filled and there was capacity for future generations.
KLD obviously has a project and ambition, I only hope that it extends to giving us a world class stadium as well as a challenging PL team. What a legacy that would be to leave behind.
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I think KLD etc see it as a money making venue, rather than just football. So it needs more seats for concerts, more corporate for footy and concerts.
 
oddbod said:
It will come down to money as these things always do !The sol is hopeless for corporate offerings and that is clearly bothering the ownership group ,They clearly are looking to see how to squeeze more money out of the fans and a block to that is the size of the concourse and the fans are not spending enough in the ground before ,at half time and at the end of the game .

When you add a box you have to cater for ancillary space servicing that box kitchens ,food areas walkways ect and that takes up space and investment ......As part of the proposed south stand extension is designed clearly for corporate offerings (hence the 2000 fewer seats than original design and larger concourse )

The club have supercharged the revenue from the kit sales and im sure they will attempt to do the same to the corporate side of the business and in my book because of the huge cost involved will include extra seats to get more bums inside the stadium ....Anyway i have commented on this subject for what appears months and months and not moving the dial one bit and im getting dizzy from the circular arguments over and over again from entrenched views ..so i will leave it at this: the ground will be extended thats for sure and it will involve extra seats but at its heart it will be a business decision only,to make money in the long term and the ownership group will ignore the sniping of short term detractors from blocking that goal!
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Aye, thread has become groundhog day really, despite some good discussion. Seems to just get back on track from the "but, empty seats, man" remarks, to why any expansion will primarily be for necessary corporate demand/improvements, we meet somewhere in the middle before reverts back to the empty seats stuff and the dance starts again.

KLD has a plan. Murray has confirmed as much. Just a matter of when we get to see what they have in mind and the Sheepfold developments may well expedite things.
 
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The Beautiful Game said:
They’d just laugh at us for not filling it, doubt they’d care

All that sounds exactly like what we were saying when Quinn mentioned his magic carpet, or short first bought us out and became our first billionaire owner. Unless we are in Europe, things will go the same way. We had a run of finishing 13th, 10th and 13th again and still attendances fell. We were signing players like bent and gyan and we were falling over ourselves with ambition. Once the novelty wears off and we start seeing the same bottom half finishes (which would actually be a huge achievement) the interest will dwindle once again as it always has done since we moved there.
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Different times tbf. Looking back some really poor crowds around mid late 30s when we had a team around top half. That prompted the huge debate around fans sitting in pubs watching games by Quinn.
 
fixxxer said:
Aye, thread has become groundhog day really, despite some good discussion. Seems to just get back on track from the "but, empty seats, man" remarks, to why any expansion will primarily be for necessary corporate demand/improvements, we meet somewhere in the middle before reverts back to the empty seats stuff and the dance starts again.

KLD has a plan. Murray has confirmed as much. Just a matter of when we get to see what they have in mind and the Sheepfold developments may well expedite things.
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Very true !.... KLD obviously has plans for the club and the spending over the summer i think provides a little clue to his overall goals for the club in general.I dont think there was a single fan who thought (the day after the play off win )that we would spend what we have done this summer? The plans that Murray saw were i think drawn up a couple of years ago so i think this indicated kld has a long term vision for the club far beyond the self imposed limitations of some of our fans glued to a first division mentality of the past !
marsey said:
It's easy enough to find them out.
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Does it matter mate ? tickets sold = money in bank!
 
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fixxxer said:
Aye, thread has become groundhog day really, despite some good discussion. Seems to just get back on track from the "but, empty seats, man" remarks, to why any expansion will primarily be for necessary corporate demand/improvements, we meet somewhere in the middle before reverts back to the empty seats stuff and the dance starts again.

KLD has a plan. Murray has confirmed as much. Just a matter of when we get to see what they have in mind and the Sheepfold developments may well expedite things.
Click to expand...
Ultimately it will come down to 'Return on Investment' workings and projections. Empty seats won't come into it if this is positive.
 
The Beautiful Game said:
They’d just laugh at us for not filling it, doubt they’d care

All that sounds exactly like what we were saying when Quinn mentioned his magic carpet, or short first bought us out and became our first billionaire owner. Unless we are in Europe, things will go the same way. We had a run of finishing 13th, 10th and 13th again and still attendances fell. We were signing players like bent and gyan and we were falling over ourselves with ambition. Once the novelty wears off and we start seeing the same bottom half finishes (which would actually be a huge achievement) the interest will dwindle once again as it always has done since we moved there.
Click to expand...
That’s the spirit
 
I honestly don't think it's just about an expansion.

The stadium is looking it's age compared to the new stadium's like Spurs and Everton.

Even Arsenal are trying to work out how to stop their stadium from falling behind.

We need a plan to future proof the stadium for the next 30 years , hopefully this is what KLD wants to do
 
Wrenthorpe Mackem said:
Ultimately it will come down to 'Return on Investment' workings and projections. Empty seats won't come into it if this is positive.
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Say we did extend the East to add executive boxes similar to the West,

With the money made from the boxes we could afford to have empty seats in the upper tier.

Executive boxes sold out well before the season started so there is a demand for more.
 
Brett said:
I honestly don't think it's just about an expansion.

The stadium is looking it's age compared to the new stadium's like Spurs and Everton.

Even Arsenal are trying to work out how to stop their stadium from falling behind.

We need a plan to future proof the stadium for the next 30 years , hopefully this is what KLD wants to do
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Corporate and hospitality is king, it's an uncomfortable truth
 
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