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SOL expansion

The Beautiful Game said:
Last time we were in the premier league we were consistently 15-20 percent under capacity. It’s great we aren’t this year but once that novelty wears off for the fair weather fans it will dip again. There’s a core of around 35,000 fans who will be there almost no matter what but the rest of our fans rely on novelty to go, whether it’s a derby, a playoff final or our first season back for a while. They won’t hang around when things get tough and they’ve proven that for decades
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Sometimes what gets lost in these debates is the frequency of attendance. There may be a consistent 45k who attend matches, but 3 or 4 a season has now become say 14 or 15 a season.
 

ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK said:
Aye they've changed the U16 to U14 and removed the U14 concession from the centre of East Stand completely. They've also increased the concession prices in the East and West as the club want adults paying the higher price in there rather than the concession but some have gone up considerably, more so for new STs which could well be the renewal price next season.

Even so, it's still cheap yet some people would prefer a sell out and therefore fans, especially kids would be missing out. These kids would be the next generation of fans going no matter what. Some say we shouldn't have expanded from 42,000 but if we hadn't then you can guarantee the concessions wouldn't have been as generous, nor available around 90% of the ground and ticket prices in general would have been higher.

That's why this time around in the lower divisions and 8 years without PL footy we had such fantastic crowds as the bairns got hooked years ago but went regardless. It's not just going to watch PL footy, it's going to the game with family and friends as a social event as memories can still be made. If not then why do lower league teams fans who will never be PL even bother going?

If those kids don't get hooked then many won't suddenly start going when times are shit as the glory seekers have gone leaving seats for them. They'll have probably done summit else instead and those who could go either way could end up following the mags if they can only watch either team on TV.

These kids will also be putting money into the club with merchandise etc so it's not all about tickets, it's making sure you have future fans that will support the club no matter what is happening on the pitch.

When did this thing about empty seats come about? We had a huge capacity at Roker Park, yet in the 50s and 60s crowds dropped into the 20,000s yet the same season would hit 40,000s and 50,000s. Are people really bothered about what some mag will say about empty seats that they'd prefer kids (and potential lifetime match goer) miss out when times are good just so the stadium is still fullish if we get relegated?
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Imo mate, if we stay up and demand remains strong, the club will push ahead with the plans and will aim to have the extension open for 27/28.

I also believe they will use a sizeable chunk of the extension (the corner from the PC to perhaps the 18 yard box) as a family enclosure with favourable pricing for kids.

The main bit behind the goal with be safe standing to make the south stand more impressive.
 
The Beautiful Game said:
We were in the prem for 10 consecutive years without a waiting list last time round.
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You might as well be talking about a different club. Firstly football is far more popular nowadays than then, we were averaging close to 40,000 in the Championship which we never came close to under McCarthy or Keane, and only did once under Reid.

It's nowhere near as big a jump as Murray took when building the SoL in the first place.
 
G'day folks! Lads and Lasses! If I may, I'd like add some comments to this most interesting discussion. SAFC vacated Roker Park well after I'd emigrated, and so I've no qualifications to speak about the S.O.L. per se, other than to say that much as I loved dear Roker (YES! even as an "enemy" supporter) the ground (like Goodison Park) had done it's dash as a viable venue (unless of course it had been completely re-modelled) From the vision of SOL that I've seen, on match coverage and of course "STID" on Netflix! your stadium looks great! However, I can understand entirely, the desire to increase capacity, should the side thrive in the EPL. For what it's worth, I am of the opinion that the absolute immediate priority is to consolidate the club's position in the top tier! In addition, the recruitment of players with proven class has to be a part of this. The passion and the loyalty of Sunderland AFC supporters is a given! So taking all that into consideration, it's my feeling that plans for extensions/redevelopment of The Stadium of Light should indeed be initiated, but in tandem with building a side that will consistently fill the venue. Achieve a respectable position in the table, playing in front of sell-out passionate crowds, and I believe that truly, the sky's the limit for youse!
 
scott934 said:
You might as well be talking about a different club. Firstly football is far more popular nowadays than then, we were averaging close to 40,000 in the Championship which we never came close to under McCarthy or Keane, and only did once under Reid.

It's nowhere near as big a jump as Murray took when building the SoL in the first place.
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We had a very bad start and were coming off the back of the 15 point season. It took a little while to get the ball rolling. We were averaging high 30s by the end. 44,448 there for the Burnley game.

Not sure I agree with the football being more popular argument. It was incredibly popular towards the back end of the 90s and the early 00s.

I agree you might as well be talking about a different club, but it's a different angle.

Coming back into the Championship from years in the League 1 wilderness was pretty much unprecedented for us. '80s crowds at Roker aren't worth talking about (they were crap by the way). Whenever we've hit the Championship in the past, it's been from the other direction. Relegation. The club on a downturn. This time it's been an upward trajectory and people are on board.

Yet still, how many times over the past three years have we baulked at the official attendance announcement, when it's clear to a blind man on a galloping hoss that a good amount of people simply haven't bothered to turn up?

We've had some good crowds - tremendous for the second tier - but it wouldn't have lasted an awful lot longer if promotion kept eluding us. We've probably come up in the nick of time.

And people will get bored. I've seen it so many times. The novelty wears off. We're a strange bunch for that. Expectations shift. The mood shifts. The fair weathers are the worst for it, and we've got loads of 'em.
 
scott934 said:
You might as well be talking about a different club. Firstly football is far more popular nowadays than then, we were averaging close to 40,000 in the Championship which we never came close to under McCarthy or Keane, and only did once under Reid.

It's nowhere near as big a jump as Murray took when building the SoL in the first place.
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That’s kind of my point. Murray’s leap into as huge and people latched onto the novelty of going to the new shiny ground. Once things started to turn attendances dropped by about 20%. The club was on a negative or pessimistic slant for years and never rid itself of that ghost.

Things are positive now, for sure, but as soon as it’s not and the novelty of being back in the big time wears off, those 6-12,000 fans will walk away again and only reappear when there’s a game at Wembley or a derby.

The attendances last time in the championship were due to being on an upwards curve and following an amazing play off run. Relegation puts us back in that negative / pessimistic stance and they’ll be gone quicker than you can say PSR.
 
daveyblue45 said:
G'day folks! Lads and Lasses! If I may, I'd like add some comments to this most interesting discussion. SAFC vacated Roker Park well after I'd emigrated, and so I've no qualifications to speak about the S.O.L. per se, other than to say that much as I loved dear Roker (YES! even as an "enemy" supporter) the ground (like Goodison Park) had done it's dash as a viable venue (unless of course it had been completely re-modelled) From the vision of SOL that I've seen, on match coverage and of course "STID" on Netflix! your stadium looks great! However, I can understand entirely, the desire to increase capacity, should the side thrive in the EPL. For what it's worth, I am of the opinion that the absolute immediate priority is to consolidate the club's position in the top tier! In addition, the recruitment of players with proven class has to be a part of this. The passion and the loyalty of Sunderland AFC supporters is a given! So taking all that into consideration, it's my feeling that plans for extensions/redevelopment of The Stadium of Light should indeed be initiated, but in tandem with building a side that will consistently fill the venue. Achieve a respectable position in the table, playing in front of sell-out passionate crowds, and I believe that truly, the sky's the limit for youse!
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Spot on Davey. Exactly how i see it also. It’s the sensible approach imo.
 
Binxy said:
I've said it a million times before, 47k isn't big enough for a successful Premier league Sunderland.
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This is very true ..the big question is though do you build now in the presumption of success or as part of the success drive to attain that succes or do you wait till the success train arrives at the station ?Personally i would see major improvements to the facilities and extra seats as a bi product of the drive to make this club as magnificent as its fan base ! ps its national ignore the conventions of grammar day so i went haywire with the use of the word success but its nice to once again associated with SAFC!
 
Hank Scorpio said:
Imo mate, if we stay up and demand remains strong, the club will push ahead with the plans and will aim to have the extension open for 27/28.

I also believe they will use a sizeable chunk of the extension (the corner from the PC to perhaps the 18 yard box) as a family enclosure with favourable pricing for kids.

The main bit behind the goal with be safe standing to make the south stand more impressive.
Click to expand...
As a side note how is the safe standing section for fans and atmosphere increase/decrease etc? I have not been home since it opened so have no idea how it has gone down with fans
 
Lord Lucan said:
This extension needs to be built now.

We owe so much to Bob Murray for the SoL - when you consider the disruption that many clubs face when grounds are rebuilt, we remove a roof and build.

I am reading the reservation on here about whether we should extend and it was the same in the early 2000s.

Sheepfolds might be forcing us to act but I suspect KLD is also looking at increased revenue which will help to fund future ambitions.

That is something for opponents of the plan to consider.

If we had stepped back twenty years ago, some of us might never has shared experiences like Coventry.

If we don’t build this now, some of us, our children, friends and family will miss out on nights like that - imagine missing out on the Derby, another cup run or a European fixture.
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He will do it, he’s not aiming to be in the relegation places. He is aiming for the European places and this is the first time in my life that a chairman has shown real ambition. Let’s see where it takes us but to realise that ambition we are going to need a stadium fit for purpose.
 
oddbod said:
This is very true ..the big question is though do you build now in the presumption of success or as part of the success drive to attain that succes or do you wait till the success train arrives at the station ?Personally i would see major improvements to the facilities and extra seats as a bi product of the drive to make this club as magnificent as its fan base ! ps its national ignore the conventions of grammar day so i went haywire with the use of the word success but its nice to once again associated with SAFC!
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We need to build it for corporate facilities. It'll pay for itself.
Whether we like it or not is irrelevant. A successful SAFC will fill 55K, a not successful SAFC will fill 35K but that is the same for all clubs.
 
chriswallace85 said:
We had a very bad start and were coming off the back of the 15 point season. It took a little while to get the ball rolling. We were averaging high 30s by the end. 44,448 there for the Burnley game.

Not sure I agree with the football being more popular argument. It was incredibly popular towards the back end of the 90s and the early 00s.

I agree you might as well be talking about a different club, but it's a different angle.

Coming back into the Championship from years in the League 1 wilderness was pretty much unprecedented for us. '80s crowds at Roker aren't worth talking about (they were crap by the way). Whenever we've hit the Championship in the past, it's been from the other direction. Relegation. The club on a downturn. This time it's been an upward trajectory and people are on board.

Yet still, how many times over the past three years have we baulked at the official attendance announcement, when it's clear to a blind man on a galloping hoss that a good amount of people simply haven't bothered to turn up?

We've had some good crowds - tremendous for the second tier - but it wouldn't have lasted an awful lot longer if promotion kept eluding us. We've probably come up in the nick of time.

And people will get bored. I've seen it so many times. The novelty wears off. We're a strange bunch for that. Expectations shift. The mood shifts. The fair weathers are the worst for it, and we've got loads of 'em.
Click to expand...

I think it is but mainly because it’s attractive to a wider group of people now.

I’ve found that particularly amongst the middle classes/professionals it’s probably the most popular it’s ever been.

I can remember starting work in 2000 and a lot of my Directors (particularly down South) would turn up their nose a bit when they knew I had a season ticket at “the football”. Rugby was definitely the go to sport.

Now when I speak to people who are counterparts/team members across the country there seems a bit of kudos attached to going to the match.

Often during those painful Monday morning chats about people’s weekends, there seems a genuine interest in what match people have gone to or if they watched the “Super Sunday”.

Of course the majority of them have memberships at Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool or Utd and are forever moaning about not getting tickets 😂

I’m off to Serbia on Monday with England and it’s quite funny when I speak to some of them and they are trying to recommend places to eat Belgrade. In reality I will be spending my time being bussed to and from the stadium to avoid getting my head kicked in 😂
 
Paul3845 said:
Sometimes what gets lost in these debates is the frequency of attendance. There may be a consistent 45k who attend matches, but 3 or 4 a season has now become say 14 or 15 a season.
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Absolutely. I have a 6 hour round trip, and in the championship/L1 would go to 6 home and 6 away on average per season. Now that it's become harder to get away tickets, and the opposition is arsenal rather than Accrington, will get to 12- 15 home and probably none away.
 
if you're bringing world class players in like Xhaka, more fans coming through to watch. SOL expansion is the only way to make room for more eh. Anyway, our pitch look so impressive, so much quality to stand on. years ago it was awful, look like it was hard pitch, but now it is way better. Well done to KLD team.

For me personally, I would love to see an transport improvement access to SOL in and out. It was difficult to get out and stuck in a traffic. I arrived home (darlington) at times around 6-7pm. Its ridiculous.
 
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ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK said:
Aye they've changed the U16 to U14 and removed the U14 concession from the centre of East Stand completely. They've also increased the concession prices in the East and West as the club want adults paying the higher price in there rather than the concession but some have gone up considerably, more so for new STs which could well be the renewal price next season.

Even so, it's still cheap yet some people would prefer a sell out and therefore fans, especially kids would be missing out. These kids would be the next generation of fans going no matter what. Some say we shouldn't have expanded from 42,000 but if we hadn't then you can guarantee the concessions wouldn't have been as generous, nor available around 90% of the ground and ticket prices in general would have been higher.

That's why this time around in the lower divisions and 8 years without PL footy we had such fantastic crowds as the bairns got hooked years ago but went regardless. It's not just going to watch PL footy, it's going to the game with family and friends as a social event as memories can still be made. If not then why do lower league teams fans who will never be PL even bother going?

If those kids don't get hooked then many won't suddenly start going when times are shit as the glory seekers have gone leaving seats for them. They'll have probably done summit else instead and those who could go either way could end up following the mags if they can only watch either team on TV.

These kids will also be putting money into the club with merchandise etc so it's not all about tickets, it's making sure you have future fans that will support the club no matter what is happening on the pitch.

When did this thing about empty seats come about? We had a huge capacity at Roker Park, yet in the 50s and 60s crowds dropped into the 20,000s yet the same season would hit 40,000s and 50,000s. Are people really bothered about what some mag will say about empty seats that they'd prefer kids (and potential lifetime match goer) miss out when times are good just so the stadium is still fullish if we get relegated?
Click to expand...
The club are still booming from the kids for quids era imo. Even the cheaper tickets through schools like when I was a pup in the late 90s early 00s
 
If we can keep the momentum going through the season, the clamour for tickets will continue to grow and the season card waiting list will get bigger and bigger.

The general sale tickets are already selling out in a couple of hours, corporate tickets are pretty much sold out.

Survive this season and the extension will be very much needed
 
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