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England v India - Third Test, 10/07

Mr Redknapp said:
Gus Fraser was like an English McGrath but always looked knackered :lol:
Headley looked like he was going to take 300 wickets until his early retirement...Mullally on the other hand ;)...canny ODI bowler though.
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Mullalley - Test average 31.24

Brett Lee - 30.64

Broadly the same but perhaps Mullally has the edge having to bowl against Australia while Lee got out of it ;)
 

Nice touch from Siraj with the Jota celebration and tbf it probably hit the Indians hard after what happened to Pant, but thankfully surviving.
 
Warne over Murali for me (despite loving both). Mind I absolutely acknowledge Warne had the advantage of being in a much better team, where batsmen were often under a lot more pressure (both in terms of scoreboard abd who else they'd have to face).
PallionLad said:
Mate haway man :lol:. I've got to get ready for game later. There is a great article on fast bowling.

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The fast bowling action is a unique skill. It differs from over-arm throwing because, according to The Laws of Cricket, the ball must be delivered without any straightening of the elbow after the arm has reached the height of the shoulder in the delivery swing. In comparison, baseball pitching, for example, relies on rotation at the shoulder joint with the elbow flexed and then straightening up to the point of release as a vital mechanism for the production of ball speed. Cricketers, therefore, need to find a different solution in order to bowl fast.

Love that last bit...

There's a couple of things I don't like about Bumrahs action and it kind of relates to the above paragraph from that article..

It comes down to personal taste especially when he has been cleared, deemed legal and fit to play as his action comes within the margins set by governing body. They say he doesn't chuck it. However that doesn't mean there isn't a legitimate question to ask about the validity of his action. Or that everyone have to wax lyrical about him. There can be grey areas where some players reside. So when we talk about players in the top bracket, top echelon players, imo we can't include players in these grey areas when doing so.

The things I don't like about his action...

It's too different and unconventional. I unfortunately prefer more regular repeatable actions to fully appreciate him.

His run up is too short, something is letting him generate good pace and accuracy without having to put the yards in.

His arm is too straight throughout delivery atride, it should only straighten when releasing ball

He then straightens too much but under 15*

His release point his too far forward compared to other players. Meaning its a shorter distance to batter.

I'm sorry if I haven't answered your question fully though.
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That's an interesting and detailed post. Suppose there's two things going on here. Is unconventional/different not a good thing? As long as it isn't illegal I think it adds to it all.

That point about it being too straight throughout is again just how you like something to be aesthetically. A bowler could bowl with a straight arm throughout the entire delivery and that would be completely legal.

People used to have similar issues with sling bowlers, claiming that's also illegal. Again those types are about as legal as they come as they don't bend the arm (it's bending to straightening that is a throw).

Interesting part re what is generating the pace. Is it not just speed of arm? That's certainly how it looks. Someone could charge in but if the arm action itself is slow the pace won't be there.
 
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rentaghost said:
Haway man - Bumrah's record is up there with the best in the game and he produces on all conditions against all teams. Brett Lee's record is worse than the likes of Matthew Hoggard (no offense to Hoggard like) There isn't even a comparison to be made. Lee could bowl fast and gave the great Australian attack something different but he was no more than a decent test bowler.
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You said they on different stratospheres, which I disagree with entirely.

Their records are very much comparable, Lee took wickets all around the world in all conditions too, did it for longer and leads in matches played and wickets taken, in an era without DRS as mentioned.

Averages aren't everything, no matter how much some would like them to be.

Hoggard was another excellent Test match bowler so not sure why you're using him as a stick to beat Lee with.
 
Salem Street South said:
You said they on different stratospheres, which I disagree with entirely.

Their records are very much comparable, Lee took wickets all around the world in all conditions too, did it for longer and leads in matches played and wickets taken, in an era without DRS as mentioned.

Averages aren't everything, no matter how much some would like them to be.

Hoggard was another excellent Test match bowler so not sure why you're using him as a stick to beat Lee with.
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Hmm. Lee took his wickets at 45 in England and 61 in India/SL/Bangladesh/UAE combined
 
Salem Street South said:
You said they on different stratospheres, which I disagree with entirely.

Their records are very much comparable, Lee took wickets all around the world in all conditions too, did it for longer and leads in matches played and wickets taken, in an era without DRS as mentioned.

Averages aren't everything, no matter how much some would like them to be.

Hoggard was another excellent Test match bowler so not sure why you're using him as a stick to beat Lee with.
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I cant see how their records are remotely comparable. By what measurement? I mean averages aren't everything but they are certianly relevant. Lee's record against NZ was very good, England is poor, abysmal against Pakistans, Bangladesh, moderate against others. Bumrah is excellent against allcomers. I use the likes of Hoggard, Caddick quite simply because they are good bowlers and that Brett Lee has a record similar / slightly worse than them who played in the same or similar era. Thats where he lies which is way behind Bumrah who will go down as an all time great.
 
Salem Street South said:
Not quite. Matches played and wickets taken are mine too as already mentioned ;)

I have very little time for stats and averages in general, they can be used to make/counter any point you want.

I prefer to base my opinion on what I see with my eyes.
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As a general point stats show how good a cricketer is. There is obviously some nuance, but someone taking their wickets at 19 is a better bowler than someone at 31. By a decent margin too
 
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