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Surrey v Durham CC 2025

Fleagle said:
If you consider that the county championship is primarily about creating the environment from which test cricketers can emerge then it is a problem in the medium term that the county championship produces legions of seamers who can only take wickets with a Duke ball. Because they will only be any use in tests in England. So something needs to be done. We can’t just revert to using the Duke all the time, pretending nothing is wrong, and producing bowlers who can’t bowl away from home. But I cannot see the purpose of this exercise. It’s not making them any better. It’s just exposing how crap they are at present even in English conditions without a Duke.
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It’s a fair point however none of the test bowlers ever take part in these games

If they are wanting to get experience with the ball, then they should play

Unless they do it’s a pointless exercise and batsmen will fill their boots
 

Fleagle said:
If you consider that the county championship is primarily about creating the environment from which test cricketers can emerge then it is a problem in the medium term that the county championship produces legions of seamers who can only take wickets with a Duke ball. Because they will only be any use in tests in England. So something needs to be done. We can’t just revert to using the Duke all the time, pretending nothing is wrong, and producing bowlers who can’t bowl away from home. But I cannot see the purpose of this exercise. It’s not making them any better. It’s just exposing how crap they are at present even in English conditions without a Duke.
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So why wasn't it a problem for the past 100+ years. We can't cope abroad as most tourists can't anywhere. That problem is recent caused by tourists not acclimatising with a series of pre-test warm up games.
 
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Ghfd said:
It’s a fair point however none of the test bowlers ever take part in these games

If they are wanting to get experience with the ball, then they should play

Unless they do it’s a pointless exercise and batsmen will fill their boots
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The championship isn’t about the current test players, it’s about the next generation. If they can only take wickets with the Duke, they won’t be effective globally if they do progress to the test team. We need to find a way to get them to be effective without the crutch of a Duke as well. This isn’t the way. But we need to find one. Just as we need to find a way to get the batters to learn how to play spin. When the championship is full of medium pacers taking five-fors, but only if they have their magic ball, it’s not fit for purpose either.
 
Fleagle said:
The championship isn’t about the current test players, it’s about the next generation. If they can only take wickets with the Duke, they won’t be effective globally if they do progress to the test team. We need to find a way to get them to be effective without the crutch of a Duke as well. This isn’t the way. But we need to find one. Just as we need to find a way to get the batters to learn how to play spin. When the championship is full of medium pacers taking five-fors, but only if they have their magic ball, it’s not fit for purpose either.
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Once in the England team they’ll only use it on tour

Why not have the test players use this ball in the very early season against the test batsmen in their various counties , so they will get experience or our test batsmen come into form before the test summer ?

Then use it towards the end to allow the test players get in a rythym before the overseas winter tour ?

You look across the country today and there’s huge scores

It’s good for nobody using the ball at this time and I would say the same if Durham scored as Surrey did today
 
Parkside said:
So why wasn't it a problem for the past 100+ years. We can't cope abroad as most tourists can't anywhere. That problem is recent caused by tourists not acclimatising with a series of pre-test warm up games.
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I’d say you’ve answered your own question. It wasn’t a problem, or not the same problem, for the last hundred plus years because of proper tours. And because serious cricketers who wanted to further their career played overseas first class in the off-season, not franchise shit.

You can’t learn this abroad anymore. Because nobody acclimatises or plays foreign domestic first class. And nobody ever will again. So you either don’t learn it at all, or you try to learn it some other way.
 
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Fleagle said:
I’d say you’ve answered your own question. It wasn’t a problem, or not the same problem, for the last hundred plus years because of proper tours. And because serious cricketers who wanted to further their career played overseas first class in the off-season, not franchise shit.

You can’t learn this abroad anymore. Because nobody acclimatises or place foreign domestic first class. And nobody ever will again. So you either don’t learn it at all, or you try to learn it some other way.
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You can go abroad and play cricket,likewise tours could start earlier. It's a comparative few who commit to franchise cricket and they're established cricketers not youngsters who go abroad to develop their game.
Very few English cricketers played 1st class cricket abroad -fact
 
Well tours of Australia back in the day usually ended in thrashing despite playing a range of state team prior to the main series

It’s just one of those things and only top quality players succeed for England in Australia.

I don’t see the point of playing with this ball in near peak summer in England

I have a suggestion earlier which would allow the test quality players to gain experience

But what good is seeing a really good county pro like Raine be carted all over the field

There will be numerous other bowlers who are really good county lads being flayed to all parts , who will never play test matches for England
 
thamesvalleyman said:
Was at The Oval today. Why did Durham choose to field after winning the toss? Seemed a crazy decision at the time, and even worse now. Wouldn't be surprised to see an innings defeat here. Will be happy to eat my words but just don't get it.
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Just the latest in a long line of bizarre decisions this season.
 
The Red Telephone said:
Just the latest in a long line of bizarre decisions this season.
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I can't remember the stats but the commentators said that at the oval the common thing to do is to win the toss and bowl. I may have miss heard but I think one of them said that the last 20 positive results came from the team that bowled first. Maybe that influenced the decision
 
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