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Jordan Henderson (signed for Brentford)


Ian_O said:
I don't think he'll add anything. Just my opinion. Probably, there'll be many more with the same opinion and many will have the same opinion as you. We are allowed to differ on opinions I think. If he comes back we'll see whose was right. I will eat humble pie if I'm wrong.
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Absolutely. No issue with that at all. If it had been on the grounds of him having been here before I think it’d be a weaker argument. And we have of course signed ageing players who have made zero or negative contribution (Alan Stubbs remains one of my most disliked signings for example).

It’s impossible to predict how the signing would turn out. I think a better discussion to have is risk vs reward. If he’s on a free and is willing to accept reasonable terms, would his signing have a detrimental impact on the team? My view is that it definitely wouldn’t. If he was signing on bloated wages due to his name and it impacts our recruitment elsewhere, then the risk vs reward dial shifts.
 
Adzy said:
Be happy if we get in him, even if he only ended up playing 10-15 games he'll be worth having around.
Is there risk of a bit of hypocrisy with all the Saudi grief that we give the Mags if he signs? One person playing in Saudi doesn't equate to a whole country backing a team but people are bound to bring it up
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Whilst I’m not happy at his hypocrisy. We weren’t dancing around with tea towels on our heads when he went there
 
Ian_O said:
All of those you mentioned where it did work were never involved in the Premier League. All of those you mentioned where it didn't work were. End of discussion. JH would bring nothing to this team in the PL. We will therefore agree to differ.
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I thought it was a discussion board ? 🤔
But happy to leave it here.
You are blinkered by an Inescapable fact. There is actually no relevance whether a player has played for us before, the important thing is you do your due diligence as a club on him

BTW Robson, Cummins and Bracewell all played for us in the top division? So that rationale does not stand up to scrutiny.

Unless of course football history before the Premiership does not count in your head.
Which if it doesn’t gives you the grand total of 16 seasons to find your synergy. A period when failed transfers not involving ex players was off the scale for pretty much the same reasons.
fyl2u said:
He was pretty crap that second time around.
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He was still better than than many in that team for a time. But I accept it’s marginal, in which case he would fall into his legs had gone… which means lack of due diligence.
 
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admwil said:
How was he for England?
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Obviously the standard was poor but he looked exactly the same as he's been pretty much his whole career.

He was sitting deep just in front of the centre halfs being marked by the Andorra centre forward 😂

He showed for the ball, received it with an excellent first touch and looked to play the ball forward at least 75% of the time. He found his man pretty much every time, a couple of long range passes and it was only one hopeful cross that didn't find his own player.

At one stage Dan Burn (probably England's worse player) passed the ball straight to Andorra and they broke 2 on 2. Henderson looked OK pace wise as he ran back and pinched the ball off the player to snuff out the danger.

All in all he looked exactly what you'd want for a 34 year old player. Keeping the game ticking over, showing for the ball, keeping possession and using his experience to keep shape and set up attacks. It's exactly what we would need from him next season.
 
Chewit said:
Well I said we have never got promoted and never would without experience of the higher division in the team. It transpired it was the coach who was more important.
I was wrong and I think you are.

I accept it doesn’t always work, but usually because it’s a desperate throw of the dice driven by emotion not practicality.

Firstly where you have seen it work
Pop Robson - Massive success
Paul Bracewell - Massive Success
Stan Cummins - Massive Success
Leadbitter … appropriate for the level

Where it didn’t work
Defoe his legs had gone
Ditto Michael Bridges
Fabio Borini… did not want to be here
George McCartney… this was a failure not helped by injury
It’s hardly endorses your point does it
Yes steer clear of players whose legs have gone.
Yes steer clear of players who have been compromised by injury
Yes steer clear of players who do not really want to be here

But all that would apply regardless of whether they had played for us before or not.

Henderson would be a massive coup. Still an England international, European playing and most successful English footballer recent times
I can’t tell you how long he has left but it’s 2 seasons as a safe bet.
All we need to get established in Premiership.
He wants to be here and he’s class
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The best non-Sunderland example was when Cloughie signed Dave Mackay at Derby (halted his plans to become the new Hearts manager) and persuaded him to play a sweeper role. He surrounded him with young energetic defenders and Mackay won the FWA player of the year. Clough made Mackay play in a sweeping role and used his influence on the team to encourage them to turn defence into attack through a passing game. He was 33 years of age.
 
Taffyduck said:
Would also bring Dan Neil to improve.

Neil and Henderson with le fee central three
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I don't think Neil and Henderson would start or even play together in the same game. Their position is more or less the same, if we keep Jobe it would be a midfield of Jobe, Le Fée and Hendo with Rigg or Neil coming on as a subs.

I do agree that Neil and the other young players would learn a lot from Henderson in training etc. An important move, more than him actually playing. Even just being around the Club.

Just like yesterday's England game Henderson for an hour then Neil for the last 30mins or if we're behind in the game replace him with a forward like we did the playoff final.
 
Ian_O said:
Well I'm not for him coming back. His time is done and he'd add very little imo. And don't tell me I know nothing about football, I've been around so long now, I've probably forgottem more than you know now. I've seen many scenarios like this before and most were doomed to failure.
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Your second sentence shows that you do in fact know absolutely nowt about football !!
 
He'll be 35 when the season starts which is ancient these days for a centre midfielder in the premier league. But with all his experience and having looked after himself, will he still be able to cut it? I think we're all guessing really.
 
superhans1 said:
He'll be 35 when the season starts which is ancient these days for a centre midfielder in the premier league. But with all his experience and having looked after himself, will he still be able to cut it? I think we're all guessing really.
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Are we?

He's just played a 30 odd games for Ajax including European games at a higher standard than Dutch football. He certainly didn't look old or out of place for England yesterday.

Cairney, Gudagan and Gueye are a similar age as Henderson and all still play in the Premier League in the same role.
 
Ale taster said:
The best non-Sunderland example was when Cloughie signed Dave Mackay at Derby (halted his plans to become the new Hearts manager) and persuaded him to play a sweeper role. He surrounded him with young energetic defenders and Mackay won the FWA player of the year. Clough made Mackay play in a sweeping role and used his influence on the team to encourage them to turn defence into attack through a passing game. He was 33 years of age.
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Good post. I have just read Colin Todd’s book and that’s mentioned.
 
superhans1 said:
He'll be 35 when the season starts which is ancient these days for a centre midfielder in the premier league. But with all his experience and having looked after himself, will he still be able to cut it? I think we're all guessing really.
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Obviously not premier league or current premier league but Pirlo, Makelele and Carrick all played as CDM at the very highest level well into their late 30's. He appears to still have all the attributes to play that strategic anchor role and with 500 + games at the highest level of football, we really need that experience and know how.

If there's no fee involved and wages aren't daft why would we pass up this opportunity. When Steve Bould came here to replace the retired Kevin Ball he was 37 or 38 and yes we only managed to get about 20 games out of him (as he was developing arthritis) but we were so much better when he was on the pitch.
 
Hot Since 82 said:
Obviously not premier league or current premier league but Pirlo, Makelele and Carrick all played as CDM at the very highest level well into their late 30's. He appears to still have all the attributes to play that strategic anchor role and with 500 + games at the highest level of football, we really need that experience and know how.

If there's no fee involved and wages aren't daft why would we pass up this opportunity. When Steve Bould came here to replace the retired Kevin Ball he was 37 or 38 and yes we only managed to get about 20 games out of him (as he was developing arthritis) but we were so much better when he was on the pitch.
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Bould was unbelievable in them 20 or so game. His debut was potentially the best ever from Sunderland player-I know some will quote Varga
 
Hot Since 82 said:
Obviously not premier league or current premier league but Pirlo, Makelele and Carrick all played as CDM at the very highest level well into their late 30's. He appears to still have all the attributes to play that strategic anchor role and with 500 + games at the highest level of football, we really need that experience and know how.

If there's no fee involved and wages aren't daft why would we pass up this opportunity. When Steve Bould came here to replace the retired Kevin Ball he was 37 or 38 and yes we only managed to get about 20 games out of him (as he was developing arthritis) but we were so much better when he was on the pitch.
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I take your overall point but Steve Bould didn’t replace a retired Kevin Ball at SAFC

For a start Bould was a centre half and Ball had been a central midfielders for half a decade at that point

And for seconds Kevin Ball played for Fulham and Burnley after Sunderland, he didn’t retire. And he played 10 games with Bould at Sunderland before moving on to Fulham
 
Roker-73 said:
I take your overall point but Steve Bould didn’t replace a retired Kevin Ball at SAFC

For a start Bould was a centre half and Ball had been a central midfielders for half a decade at that point

And for seconds Kevin Ball played for Fulham and Burnley after Sunderland, he didn’t retire.
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He left Sunderland as club captain and Bould replaced him in that role. Not that any of that's relevant the key point is he was 38 and absolutely transformed us at the back. Older players can add value.
bowers2 said:
Bould was unbelievable in them 20 or so game. His debut was potentially the best ever from Sunderland player-I know some will quote Varga
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Iirc we went from complete bomb scare to total composure
 
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